MMQB: Bills spent considerable time with top WRs including Jeudy and Lamb

[BillsFan17]

10 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

Very mature answer. You seem like a gem to be around. 

Maturity has nothing to do with it.

Edited March 4, 2020 by BillsFan17

[Lurker]

2 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

If you arent impressed with his "tape" then there isnt much anyone is going to be able to help ya with. Because if Ruggs doesnt impress you, you probably aren't watching his tape or have any idea what it is you are looking at.

 

I think the answer isn't as clear cut as that.    Ruggs made a lot of splash plays, but also wasn't used nearly as much by 'Bama as his draft slot might imply.   

 

I re-watched their "iron bowl" game with Auburn the other night and in the second half, when the game was on the line, Ruggs wasn't even on the field much.     Waddle, Smith and Jeudy were the go-to WRs in crunch time.    The following week in the Citrus Bowl vs. Michigan, Ruggs had two catches for 27 yards.

 

What's exciting about Ruggs is his potential and measurables.    Is he the next Tyreek Hill?    Maybe.  Which is what teams will be drafting for.    But he still has things to work on, particularly his release against press coverage...

 

 

[BillsFan17]

Just now, Lurker said:

 

I think the answer isn't as clear cut as that.    Ruggs made a lot of splash plays, but also wasn't used nearly as much by 'Bama as his draft slot might imply.   

 

I re-watched their "iron bowl" game with Auburn the other night and in the second half, when the game was on the line, Ruggs wasn't even on the field much.     Waddle, Smith and Jeudy were the go-to WRs in crunch time.    The following week in the Citrus Bowl vs. Michigan, Ruggs had two catches for 27 yards.

 

What's exciting about Ruggs is his potential and measurables.    Is he the next Tyreek Hill?    Maybe.  Which is what teams will be drafting for.    But he still has things to work on, particularly his release against press coverage...

 

 

Market share plays a big part of things. Which makes what Ruggs accomplished all that more impressive. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

They need elite play-makers on offense and I would also note Beane's end of season presser about how one loses the final game of the season.  The difference against Houston was they had a guy like DeAndre Hopkins and Buffalo didn't. 

 

Buffalo's passing game needs an elite receiver.  This is the draft to get one, although it will cost them.  Combine that with added urgency in year 4 of the rebuild and I can see them moving up, provided McD doesn't insist on a DE or CB, for someone to help Allen out.  Besides, they're not going to find one in UFA/via trade nor would they spend the money. 

 

I really think this off-season comes down to how Buffalo gives Allen more weapons in the passing game.  After all, they did get down the road with Pittsburgh on Antonio Brown last year.  If they decide to (again) go defense in the first and try to fill the WR position with more depth types who'll take time to develop it's going to be no better than an average offense. 

 

I don't disagree with your perspective, I'm just pointing out the "tea leaves" Beane has put out there signalling that fans wanting a big trade-up for a 1st round WR may be disappointed.  I think backing up a Brinks truck for a proven FA is more likely, but Cooper has pretty much said "not going there" even if Dallas does let him walk.

 

McDermott has put out tea leaves of his own, talking about how we want playmakers, on the other hand playmakers don't do any good if you can't protect, so ideally we want both.

[Reed83HOF]

6 minutes ago, Lurker said:

What's exciting about Ruggs is his potential and measurables.    Is he the next Tyreek Hill?    Maybe.  Which is what teams will be drafting for.    But he still has things to work on, particularly his release against press coverage...

 

 

For almost all of the WRs coming, how well they are able to overcome press, will dictate how good they truly do become. Ruggs speed, agility and acceleration will help with that to a degree. Who is going to play press on him when he can blow by them and even if they do, they will put safety help on top of him which will free someone else up to make a play. 

 

His ceiling is crazy high, is less developed (based on playing time) than Jeudy & Lamb. Jeudy and Lamb are more prototypical #1 WRs and if you really want to look at it, Beane and McD don't necessarily believe in a #1, they want players who can catch the ball and make plays, someone who can take it to the house. All 3 are going to be very, very good

[DCOrange]

17 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

I think the answer isn't as clear cut as that.    Ruggs made a lot of splash plays, but also wasn't used nearly as much by 'Bama as his draft slot might imply.   

 

I re-watched their "iron bowl" game with Auburn the other night and in the second half, when the game was on the line, Ruggs wasn't even on the field much.     Waddle, Smith and Jeudy were the go-to WRs in crunch time.    The following week in the Citrus Bowl vs. Michigan, Ruggs had two catches for 27 yards.

 

What's exciting about Ruggs is his potential and measurables.    Is he the next Tyreek Hill?    Maybe.  Which is what teams will be drafting for.    But he still has things to work on, particularly his release against press coverage...

 

 

I don't think he's any worse than Lamb in this regard honestly and at least from the games I watched, he dealt with press coverage more often than Lamb or Jeudy did. Jeudy was incredible against press coverage though, which is one of the main reasons he's my #1 WR. I would tend to go with Ruggs > Lamb for #2.

Edited March 4, 2020 by DCOrange

[Reed83HOF]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't disagree with your perspective, I'm just pointing out the "tea leaves" Beane has put out there signalling that fans wanting a big trade-up for a 1st round WR may be disappointed.  I think backing up a Brinks truck for a proven FA is more likely, but Cooper has pretty much said "not going there" even if Dallas does let him walk.

 

McDermott has put out tea leaves of his own, talking about how we want playmakers, on the other hand playmakers don't do any good if you can't protect, so ideally we want both.

Beane has also put plenty of tea leaves out there saying they will follow their board and if elite talent drops they will go get him, especially at a position of need (might not if it isn't). Even when asked about the bust rate of WRs, if you have your board right, you go get him. RD1 is setup as top tier, mid-tier and bottom tier, try to prioritize the positions of high AAV contracts.I would love to just once be able to sit in there while they set the board up and then watch the draft unfold. 

 

When Beane talks about Edge that doesn't hit FA and there aren't enough Von Miller's to go around - that is Young and that is this draft as far as Edge goes...

 

At the end of the day, this is going to be fluid until we make our pick (whatever number it turns out to be) and it will be based on his board value and trying to go after the guys they have a high value on

[Dkollidas]

I like all these receivers. So I’m just putting my faith in Beane. I feel like the deeper part of this draft has a lot of those bigger, jump ball receivers that can be grabbed a bit later on (Pittman Jr., Johnson, Hodgins, etc etc) so ideally if they go receiver in round 1 or 2 I’d want a guy with a bit of speed. Reagor is really interesting, as is Jefferson. Mims worries me a bit that he might be a big athletic trait guy who can’t put it all together (had some big drops in college). I want my guys to be sure handed. 

[Albany,n.y.]

On 3/2/2020 at 1:00 PM, BillsFan17 said:

If Beane trades up for a WR, in this class, I'll lose a lot of faith in his judgement.

A lot of the recent mock drafts have the WRs going in the teens.  A trade up will cost a 2nd & maybe one of our 5ths to get to the mid teens.  If Beane is sold on a WR who is available at around 14, he should make the trade.  I trust his judgement over anyone posting on a message board 24/7.  This means I trust his judgement over both your judgement & mine because he knows a lot more than we do and I'm willing to admit it.  

[Reed83HOF]

6 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I don't think he's any worse than Lamb in this regard honestly and at least from the games I watched, he dealt with press coverage more often than Lamb or Jeudy did. Jeudy was incredible against press coverage though, which is one of the main reasons he's my #1 WR. I would tend to go with Ruggs > Lamb for #2.

I love all 3 of them and the explosive athletiscism that Ruggs brings that the others don't, puts him at #1 for me. The ability to stop on a dime, adjust, make the catch and accelerate instantly gives him that edge. Not knocking the other 2 at all because they are freaking awesome

Edited March 4, 2020 by Reed83HOF

[GunnerBill]

43 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

Why do you put Ruggs in the same class as Jeudy and Lamb? Just wondering. He was the 3rd best receiver on his team. Has 86 catches and 1500 yards total the last two years combined, with Tua. His "tape" doesn't overly impress either. Just wondering what people are seeing in Ruggs, that I'm not. 

 

So obviously the first thing that jumps out is the game breaking speed, but he is more than just speed. He is a pretty polished route runner, his inside breaks are phenomenal for a guy coming out of college - he does that better than any prospect I can immediately recall. Good hands, elite change of direction, tougher and more physical in contact situations than you would imagine for his size and demonstrates an understanding of coverages in the way he sets defences up. And I was a guy who hated John Ross as a day 1 pick when Cincy took him in the top 10 a few years ago as a smaller speed guy and my first proper exposure to Ruggs which was the Tennessee game in 2018 I remember feeling a bit like here is a slightly better version of John Ross. How wrong I was though. The more I watched him the more apparent it was to me that this was a real football player.

[BillsFan17]

10 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

A lot of the recent mock drafts have the WRs going in the teens.  A trade up will cost a 2nd & maybe one of our 5ths to get to the mid teens.  If Beane is sold on a WR who is available at around 14, he should make the trade.  I trust his judgement over anyone posting on a message board 24/7.  This means I trust his judgement over both your judgement & mine because he knows a lot more than we do and I'm willing to admit it.  

If the price is right, by all means go get one of the big three, however, we don't know what the cost will be. And unless this team fills a lot of holes in FA.

 

Listening to Joe Marino the other day, apparently a lot of people he respects were telling him the Bills arent linked to any of the big name FAs. That they are going to be a build thru the draft team...

 

Tells me I can see them more likely to move around in the later rounds, instead of giving up what it could take to get up from 22 high enough to get one of the big three.

[BillsVet]

19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't disagree with your perspective, I'm just pointing out the "tea leaves" Beane has put out there signalling that fans wanting a big trade-up for a 1st round WR may be disappointed.  I think backing up a Brinks truck for a proven FA is more likely, but Cooper has pretty much said "not going there" even if Dallas does let him walk.

 

McDermott has put out tea leaves of his own, talking about how we want playmakers, on the other hand playmakers don't do any good if you can't protect, so ideally we want both.

 

McD has talked offense up, both at last year's combine but my issue is how he approaches it.  It's nice to sign guys like Brown and Beasley and they're still good to decent options.  My issue with the HC's perspective is I don't think he values offensive play-makers as much as he makes it seem.  He's a defense first, process always guy that believes through sheer-will and his planning that he can win games.  That dinosaur stuff right there. 

 

OTOH, I think Beane recognizes they need elite talent on offense and it's time to invest there more.  Last year we saw that there were few play-maker types available as a reason to go defense in round 1.  With some explosive types in this year's draft, I'd expect someone to tell McD his defense isn't getting them to the AFC Championship game. 

 

I also believe McBeane understand there's a sense of urgency in 2020 that wasn't there in 2017-18.  They should be moving from rebuilding mode into competing for championships this year.  They're not 1 guy away, but a top WR really escalates the process closer to going deep into the post-season.  The time is now. 

[Reed83HOF]

13 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

McD has talked offense up, both at last year's combine but my issue is how he approaches it.  It's nice to sign guys like Brown and Beasley and they're still good to decent options.  My issue with the HC's perspective is I don't think he values offensive play-makers as much as he makes it seem.  He's a defense first, process always guy that believes through sheer-will and his planning that he can win games.  That dinosaur stuff right there. 

 

OTOH, I think Beane recognizes they need elite talent on offense and it's time to invest there more.  Last year we saw that there were few play-maker types available as a reason to go defense in round 1.  With some explosive types in this year's draft, I'd expect someone to tell McD his defense isn't getting them to the AFC Championship game. 

 

I also believe McBeane understand there's a sense of urgency in 2020 that wasn't there in 2017-18.  They should be moving from rebuilding mode into competing for championships this year.  They're not 1 guy away, but a top WR really escalates the process closer to going deep into the post-season.  The time is now. 

 

You do a good job of hitting the nail on the head here. At the end of the season presser, Beane did allude to the fact that he at times will have to press the coaching staff in regards to players and upgrades. First time listening to it (as it happened in real time LOL) was exactly what you just said.

 

Our D exactly as it was last season was good enough to be at the SB level, the offense is no where near it and lacks to the playmakers he have on D. As much as everyone wnats the next Bruce or Mack or Von; our biggest gap is still at the offiensive skill positions. Getting Josh more help this season to score more points is not a 2nd or 3rd RD WR who will need extra time to develop. As Hapless indicated before, WRs need to make reads on our offense and make the same adjustmnets that the QB sees - are Shenault, Mims, Jefferson, Higgins, Reagor et al. going to be able to do that while polishing up their other areas that need work? Or is it going to be much easier with a Jeudy or Ruggs who know the offense or Lamb who might be the most complete overall? The answer is NOPE

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

For almost all of the WRs coming, how well they are able to overcome press, will dictate how good they truly do become. Ruggs speed, agility and acceleration will help with that to a degree. Who is going to play press on him when he can blow by them and even if they do, they will put safety help on top of him which will free someone else up to make a play. 

 

His ceiling is crazy high, is less developed (based on playing time) than Jeudy & Lamb. Jeudy and Lamb are more prototypical #1 WRs and if you really want to look at it, Beane and McD don't necessarily believe in a #1, they want players who can catch the ball and make plays, someone who can take it to the house. All 3 are going to be very, very good

 

I like Ruggs.   But he's also got some 'prove it' things in his profile.      

 

Look how long it took Marquise Goodwin to learn how to to be an NFL WR.     Ruggs is two inches taller and 8 lbs heavier, but he's still undersized and hasn't faced NFL CBs.    I think he'll do fine, but there also might be more of a learning curve with him...

[Reed83HOF]

2 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

I like Ruggs.   But he's also got some 'prove it' things in his profile.      

 

Look how long it took Marquise Goodwin to learn how to to be an NFL WR.     Ruggs is two inches taller and 8 lbs heavier, but he's still undersized and hasn't faced NFL CBs.    I think he'll do fine, but there also might be more of a learning curve with him...

 

Part of the highly athletic guys with sky high cieling type of pick vs one who is a bit more well rounded. He has gotten better every year, but he does have less of a work load than the other 2, he is a much different (and better) player than Goodwin

[BillsFan17]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

I don't think he's any worse than Lamb in this regard honestly and at least from the games I watched, he dealt with press coverage more often than Lamb or Jeudy did. Jeudy was incredible against press coverage though, which is one of the main reasons he's my #1 WR. I would tend to go with Ruggs > Lamb for #2.

What's interesting tho, if you listen to some of the guys over at the Draft Network, I think it was Solak talking about how Jeudy didnt have to win against to many different coverage in a sense because of the talent around him. Defenses had to adjust to the countless weapons Bama had, which didn't allow defense to use certain coverages against Jeudy. Jeudy is an absolute specimen no doubt about it, but in the context of the coverages he saw, I think its important when factoring in his release off the line.

[Lurker]

39 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Part of the highly athletic guys with sky high cieling type of pick vs one who is a bit more well rounded. He has gotten better every year, but he does have less of a work load than the other 2, he is a much different (and better) player than Goodwin

 

I know Ruggs is better but Goodwin is the first comparable that came to mind--world class speed and athleticism being the commonality.

 

Ruggs' NFL.com profile says this:

 

Overview

Ruggs' speed alone helps both the running and passing games because it forces safeties into more passive positioning. He can work all three levels and his ability to turn slants and crossing routes into big gainers could make him the favorite gift under the tree for a quarterback and offense in need of an explosive weapon. He has quick, sure hands to handle off-target throws, but learning to release, separate and catch against physical NFL cornerbacks could require an adjustment period. He won't rack up the targets, but has explosive speed and talent to imprint on games with regularity.

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

I like Ruggs.   But he's also got some 'prove it' things in his profile.      

 

Look how long it took Marquise Goodwin to learn how to to be an NFL WR.     Ruggs is two inches taller and 8 lbs heavier, but he's still undersized and hasn't faced NFL CBs.    I think he'll do fine, but there also might be more of a learning curve with him...

 

He is also much better at... you know.... football. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Beane has also put plenty of tea leaves out there saying they will follow their board and if elite talent drops they will go get him, especially at a position of need (might not if it isn't). Even when asked about the bust rate of WRs, if you have your board right, you go get him. RD1 is setup as top tier, mid-tier and bottom tier, try to prioritize the positions of high AAV contracts.I would love to just once be able to sit in there while they set the board up and then watch the draft unfold. 

 

When Beane talks about Edge that doesn't hit FA and there aren't enough Von Miller's to go around - that is Young and that is this draft as far as Edge goes...

 

At the end of the day, this is going to be fluid until we make our pick (whatever number it turns out to be) and it will be based on his board value and trying to go after the guys they have a high value on

 

I think the difference between us may be in what "drops" means and what is required to "go get him".