Updated: Yannick tweets again

[vincec]

16 hours ago, MJS said:

 

If Ngakoe rants into the air without the team responding at all, they look awesome and he looks worse. They should be pushing a narrative to the actual media that they are aware of his tweets and have been in conversations with him and his agent about the best manner to proceed to benefit both the organization and Ngakoe.

Is this how things work with the president and his opponents? Going through Twitter and not the media seems to work pretty well for him.

[thebandit27]

14 hours ago, Billl said:

How is the owner 100% right?  When every decent player in the organization wants out, the common denominator is the team.  YN tried doing it the “right way” and it got him nothing.  Now his only option is to follow the Fowler and Ramsey model and throw a tantrum, and it’s going to work.  In the end, Yannick will not be in Jax next year, and no quality FAs are going to touch the Jaguars with a 10 foot pole.

That argument could hold water if all-time good dude Calais Campbell didn’t quietly do his job for the last 4 years and get traded for peanuts with absolutely no public fuss.

 

That’s not to say the team is right, but Yannick has other choices; penning his signature for a guaranteed $20M pay day is one of them.

[Ya Digg?]

29 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

That argument could hold water if all-time good dude Calais Campbell didn’t quietly do his job for the last 4 years and get traded for peanuts with absolutely no public fuss.

 

That’s not to say the team is right, but Yannick has other choices; penning his signature for a guaranteed $20M pay day is one of them.

While $20 million is obviously a lot of money, why would he play for a team he doesn't want to play for and risk injury and miss out on $80-$100 million, if not more?  If he signs and Jacksonville doesn't trade him and he blows out his knee or achilles then he would cost himself a ton of money

[thebandit27]

30 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

While $20 million is obviously a lot of money, why would he play for a team he doesn't want to play for and risk injury and miss out on $80-$100 million, if not more?  If he signs and Jacksonville doesn't trade him and he blows out his knee or achilles then he would cost himself a ton of money

And if that’s his decision then that’s fine. All I’m saying is that claiming some kind of victim hood when the stroke of a pen can put you in the top 0.1% of income earners in the world doesn’t smack of having no options; nor is it going to gain empathy

[MJS]

2 hours ago, vincec said:

Is this how things work with the president and his opponents? Going through Twitter and not the media seems to work pretty well for him.

The president should have his phone confiscated. His tweets reflect very poorly on him, in my opinion.

[Billl]

16 hours ago, DJB said:

Everyone on the Jags is nuts

 

Yannick

Fournette 

Ramsey

 

 

Marrone

Maybe...just maybe it’s the front office and not the players.  (Don’t forget Dante Fowler, btw).  Not sure what it is about sports that makes people lose all perspective but any other business that has its employees leaving in droves would be recognized as having serious internal issues.  For some reason, people want to blame the employees when a football team is so poorly mismanaged that players refuse to play for them.  It makes no sense.

[MrSarcasm]

You would think players around the league would look at the whole Antonio Brown situation and take notice on what NOT to do. Granted this is far less than Antonio Browns antics but this is how it all started. 

 

Not to mention, what does Yannick hope to gain?

 

He alienates at least half of the GMs around the league(who do the trading) by criticizing his GM.

[808]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

And if that’s his decision then that’s fine. All I’m saying is that claiming some kind of victim hood when the stroke of a pen can put you in the top 0.1% of income earners in the world doesn’t smack of having no options; nor is it going to gain empathy

Risking 80% of your value because people view that 20% to be top pay regardless is short sighted. I wouldnt risk 80% for 20 just cause its more than most people make. 

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, 808 said:

Risking 80% of your value because people view that 20% to be top pay regardless is short sighted. I wouldnt risk 80% for 20 just cause its more than most people make. 

Would you also complain about your situation as though you have it so bad when there’s a global pandemic occurring and you could literally make yourself a life-changing amount of money with the strike of a pen?

 

Again, it’s his prerogative to hold out and do what he’s doing. No bones on my end. It’s also rather silly to act like he’s being held hostage by a $20M guaranteed contract offer.

[BigBuff423]

10 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Would you also complain about your situation as though you have it so bad when there’s a global pandemic occurring and you could literally make yourself a life-changing amount of money with the strike of a pen?

 

Again, it’s his prerogative to hold out and do what he’s doing. No bones on my end. It’s also rather silly to act like he’s being held hostage by a $20M guaranteed contract offer.

 

Look bandit, not that it matters but you and I agree on most things, and I'm NOT saying Yannick is handling it the right way - but point in fact is he is not permitted to leave the team to play for another - that is the very definition of being held hostage. It's not about the fact that he wants more money at this point, it's that he no longer wants to play for that team, irrespective of the money. When I want to leave, for any reason, and I'm not permitted to leave for any reason, I am being held hostage. Something or someone is precluding my exit from the situation or location, that's exactly what this Franchise Tag is at this point: nailing them to a location (team). 

 

If the team did a better job of building the culture, showing value to the players as people, giving him (and others) the contract they wanted before their final game, and established a positive rapport and relationship with the players and their families, the money would get it done. But, in this case - and several others and not just the Jags - players want more than just money. It appears to me, in my limited exposure to what Yannick is saying via Twitter, is that it's of little consequence about how much - it's that he wants to exit the team, change locations, and he is not allowed to do that - so he is in effect being held to a location or fixed position against his will. 

 

Also, if he had signed a contract at any point with his agreement to play for a certain amount going into next year, I would fully support the team on this one because when you sign a contract you work for it the agreed amount and hope that the value matches your output. But he was Drafted, through no choice of his own, and then he played out his contract - all he's requesting is to let him go find the joy and peace he wants elsewhere. The Franchise Tag was not intended to be used as a hostage situation, it was intended to be used for good faith efforts in contract extensions and to ensure the player was paid a premium if the two sides couldn't hammer out a multi-year deal. 

[TuelTime]

12 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Would you also complain about your situation as though you have it so bad when there’s a global pandemic occurring and you could literally make yourself a life-changing amount of money with the strike of a pen?

 

Again, it’s his prerogative to hold out and do what he’s doing. No bones on my end. It’s also rather silly to act like he’s being held hostage by a $20M guaranteed contract offer.

 

But it's not silly at all. It's actually silly to think he should sign the tag. He is easily getting well over 40M guaranteed from any team that signs him.

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, TuelTime said:

 

But it's not silly at all. It's actually silly to think he should sign the tag. He is easily getting well over 40M guaranteed from any team that signs him.

I didn’t say that I think he should sign the tag. I said that the implication was made that he has no choice in what happens next. In fact, he does have a choice. He can hold out, he can sign the franchise tender and try to get the team to trade him, or he can simply play under the tag.

[TuelTime]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I didn’t say that I think he should sign the tag. I said that the implication was made that he has no choice in what happens next. In fact, he does have a choice. He can hold out, he can sign the franchise tender and try to get the team to trade him, or he can simply play under the tag.

 

And he can act like a victim on Twitter because his career is being held hostage by some billionaire's kid.. I wouldn't doubt it if he comes out on top by bringing attention to his situation because the franchise tag isn't exactly fair and other GMs know this.

[Rochesterfan]

13 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Look bandit, not that it matters but you and I agree on most things, and I'm NOT saying Yannick is handling it the right way - but point in fact is he is not permitted to leave the team to play for another - that is the very definition of being held hostage. It's not about the fact that he wants more money at this point, it's that he no longer wants to play for that team, irrespective of the money. When I want to leave, for any reason, and I'm not permitted to leave for any reason, I am being held hostage. Something or someone is precluding my exit from the situation or location, that's exactly what this Franchise Tag is at this point: nailing them to a location (team). 

 

If the team did a better job of building the culture, showing value to the players as people, giving him (and others) the contract they wanted before their final game, and established a positive rapport and relationship with the players and their families, the money would get it done. But, in this case - and several others and not just the Jags - players want more than just money. It appears to me, in my limited exposure to what Yannick is saying via Twitter, is that it's of little consequence about how much - it's that he wants to exit the team, change locations, and he is not allowed to do that - so he is in effect being held to a location or fixed position against his will. 

 

Also, if he had signed a contract at any point with his agreement to play for a certain amount going into next year, I would fully support the team on this one because when you sign a contract you work for it the agreed amount and hope that the value matches your output. But he was Drafted, through no choice of his own, and then he played out his contract - all he's requesting is to let him go find the joy and peace he wants elsewhere. The Franchise Tag was not intended to be used as a hostage situation, it was intended to be used for good faith efforts in contract extensions and to ensure the player was paid a premium if the two sides couldn't hammer out a multi-year deal. 

 

He is not being held hostage.  He is in the NFLPA correct?  The league and the NFLPA agreed to the rules.  Yannick has options - he is not the hostage.  He has the ability to sign the deal and take 20 million this year.  He also can not sign and wait it out for no pay and try again next year.  He can also wait like some players and sign just prior to the trade.  
 

The things he cannot do - sign elsewhere or be traded until he signs the tender.  The Jaguars are following what they are allowed to do and are trying to get fair compensation and Yannick wants out.  The Khan kid is just saying if you would be quiet it would make things easier.  If we do not get fair compensation then Yannick's options are more limited because the Jags do not have to trade him at all.  In fact they have the option of doing this for several years - ala Kirk Cousins.  
 

This is part of the conditions of employment and Yannick is not a FA - the Jaguars hold his rights via a collective bargained agreement.  He is not a hostage - he is sitting with several options all of which pay him well.  What the tweet suggests is that if he really wants out - shut your pie hole and we can get a deal done - that includes the Jaguars wanting to offer him a new contract.  They will pursue options, but if he tanks his value - there is less chance of a trade and a higher percentage chance he has to sit out some or all of the year.

 

Him being held there because of rules agreed to be the players (and re-agreed to in this last agreement) doesn’t make him a hostage.  If he wants to leave - let hem know and shut up so that you can get out.  He has not only tanked his value, but limited the number of potential landing spots.  Therefore - all he has done so far is increase the likelihood that he will have to dress as a Jaguar this year.

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

He is not being held hostage.  He is in the NFLPA correct?  The league and the NFLPA agreed to the rules.  Yannick has options - he is not the hostage.  He has the ability to sign the deal and take 20 million this year.  He also can not sign and wait it out for no pay and try again next year.  He can also wait like some players and sign just prior to the trade.  
 

The things he cannot do - sign elsewhere or be traded until he signs the tender.  The Jaguars are following what they are allowed to do and are trying to get fair compensation and Yannick wants out.  The Khan kid is just saying if you would be quiet it would make things easier.  If we do not get fair compensation then Yannick's options are more limited because the Jags do not have to trade him at all.  In fact they have the option of doing this for several years - ala Kirk Cousins.  
 

This is part of the conditions of employment and Yannick is not a FA - the Jaguars hold his rights via a collective bargained agreement.  He is not a hostage - he is sitting with several options all of which pay him well.  What the tweet suggests is that if he really wants out - shut your pie hole and we can get a deal done - that includes the Jaguars wanting to offer him a new contract.  They will pursue options, but if he tanks his value - there is less chance of a trade and a higher percentage chance he has to sit out some or all of the year.

 

Him being held there because of rules agreed to be the players (and re-agreed to in this last agreement) doesn’t make him a hostage.  If he wants to leave - let hem know and shut up so that you can get out.  He has not only tanked his value, but limited the number of potential landing spots.  Therefore - all he has done so far is increase the likelihood that he will have to dress as a Jaguar this year.

This.  
 

end of debate

[BigBuff423]

22 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I didn’t say that I think he should sign the tag. I said that the implication was made that he has no choice in what happens next. In fact, he does have a choice. He can hold out, he can sign the franchise tender and try to get the team to trade him, or he can simply play under the tag.

 

But those aren't really "options", it's about the lesser of three evils: sit out and lose a year without pay and losing a year where he could be compiling career stats, sign a tender and be forced to play for a team who doesn't want him long term and for whom he doesn't want to play, or sign it and *hope* they will get the compensation they're looking for to move on from him, but if they could do that - they would have already. All the players go into Draft weekend knowing any team can take them and they will need to play for that organization, and to me that's fair - b/c you know going in what the deal is, but when your deal runs out and you no longer want to play for that same team, you should be allowed to leave - regardless of the reasons. Not all reasons are justifiable, but they are personal - and a player should be beholden to a team if they no longer wish to play for them AND there is no contract agreement in place. He has no options so long as the team acts as a 21st Century lord of a fiefdom.

[Rochesterfan]

4 minutes ago, TuelTime said:

 

And he can act like a victim on Twitter because his career is being held hostage by some billionaire's kid.. I wouldn't doubt it if he comes out on top by bringing attention to his situation because the franchise tag isn't exactly fair and other GMs know this.

The franchise tag is perfectly fair.  If the players wanted it out - they should have negotiated it out of the CBA.  
 

The Jaguars are using it exactly as they should - they have an asset they want to keep and have put a tag on that asset.  Yannick now has his options.  He can sign and be one of he highest paid players or he can hold out.  If he wants to be traded - that is fine, but he will have to sign prior to he trade.  If he wants to tweet crap about how unfair everything is - then he can do that, but if that makes his trade value drop and the Jaguars decide it is not worth it - then that is on Yannick for causing his own situation.

[BigBuff423]

3 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

He is not being held hostage.  He is in the NFLPA correct?  The league and the NFLPA agreed to the rules.  Yannick has options - he is not the hostage.  He has the ability to sign the deal and take 20 million this year.  He also can not sign and wait it out for no pay and try again next year.  He can also wait like some players and sign just prior to the trade.  
 

The things he cannot do - sign elsewhere or be traded until he signs the tender.  The Jaguars are following what they are allowed to do and are trying to get fair compensation and Yannick wants out.  The Khan kid is just saying if you would be quiet it would make things easier.  If we do not get fair compensation then Yannick's options are more limited because the Jags do not have to trade him at all.  In fact they have the option of doing this for several years - ala Kirk Cousins.  
 

This is part of the conditions of employment and Yannick is not a FA - the Jaguars hold his rights via a collective bargained agreement.  He is not a hostage - he is sitting with several options all of which pay him well.  What the tweet suggests is that if he really wants out - shut your pie hole and we can get a deal done - that includes the Jaguars wanting to offer him a new contract.  They will pursue options, but if he tanks his value - there is less chance of a trade and a higher percentage chance he has to sit out some or all of the year.

 

Him being held there because of rules agreed to be the players (and re-agreed to in this last agreement) doesn’t make him a hostage.  If he wants to leave - let hem know and shut up so that you can get out.  He has not only tanked his value, but limited the number of potential landing spots.  Therefore - all he has done so far is increase the likelihood that he will have to dress as a Jaguar this year.

 

That is not the point - he doesn't want their money and he doesn't want to play for the team. He is NOT under contract, therefore he should be allowed to leave, whatever his reasons are....full stop. When two parties can't agree, it's time to go separate ways. Also, going on the "NFLPA agreed to this" wreaks of a strawman argument given that back then marijuana drug use was an agreed upon punishable offense, but much has changed and it shows in the new NFLPA. The original intent of the Franchise Tag was to benefit a perspective mutually agreed upon contract that just took too long to get done or if the player wanted to play but felt his deal wouldn't be lucrative enough. Neither is the case here for Yannick and the Jags. Jags want more for him than the market bares and Yannick wants to play for a team he believes in - and he's willing to lose money to do it. That's his right, to walk away from guaranteed money if he chooses a different team for different reasons. Jags want to keep a player - do a better job making him WANT to stay on the team. 

[Rochesterfan]

4 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

But those aren't really "options", it's about the lesser of three evils: sit out and lose a year without pay and losing a year where he could be compiling career stats, sign a tender and be forced to play for a team who doesn't want him long term and for whom he doesn't want to play, or sign it and *hope* they will get the compensation they're looking for to move on from him, but if they could do that - they would have already. All the players go into Draft weekend knowing any team can take them and they will need to play for that organization, and to me that's fair - b/c you know going in what the deal is, but when your deal runs out and you no longer want to play for that same team, you should be allowed to leave - regardless of the reasons. Not all reasons are justifiable, but they are personal - and a player should be beholden to a team if they no longer wish to play for them AND there is no contract agreement in place. He has no options so long as the team acts as a 21st Century lord of a fiefdom.

 

You would be correct if he was a free agent, but the NFLPA agreed (and left it in he newer agreement) that teams are allowed to designate one player as a franchise player/transitional player and pay them a 1 year salary commiserate with that designation.  The team has the option to do that for a couple of years to give them and the player a chance to work things out.

 

If he wants to go (and he has made that clear) then he has limited his own choices at this point.  The Jags have said they will move him for fair market value and they have not received that offer.  Yannick is now making it harder to reach that - so it becomes less likely the team trades him - which is the point of the twitter battle.

[Rochesterfan]

8 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

That is not the point - he doesn't want their money and he doesn't want to play for the team. He is NOT under contract, therefore he should be allowed to leave, whatever his reasons are....full stop. When two parties can't agree, it's time to go separate ways. Also, going on the "NFLPA agreed to this" wreaks of a strawman argument given that back then marijuana drug use was an agreed upon punishable offense, but much has changed and it shows in the new NFLPA. The original intent of the Franchise Tag was to benefit a perspective mutually agreed upon contract that just took too long to get done or if the player wanted to play but felt his deal wouldn't be lucrative enough. Neither is the case here for Yannick and the Jags. Jags want more for him than the market bares and Yannick wants to play for a team he believes in - and he's willing to lose money to do it. That's his right, to walk away from guaranteed money if he chooses a different team for different reasons. Jags want to keep a player - do a better job making him WANT to stay on the team. 

 

The franchise tag was designed to allow teams to keep players and sometimes potentially work on contract extensions.  There was never any rule designating how or when it could be used.  
 

The Bills used this tactic to trade Peerless Price way back in the early 2000’s - as a matter of fact it is a very common usage of the franchise tag.

 

If it was such an issue - why did the players agree to it again.  The NFL moved on THC, but the NFLPA left he franchise tag in place.  Therefore - don’t blame the Jaguars for protecting their investment - this was part of the CBA and Yannick has choices, but those are bargained for and he is still a Jaguar and not a FA.

 

It is Yannick’s right to walk away, but that involves sitting out a year and he has that choice.  Other than that this is no different than any player that is under contract and no longer wants to be on that team.