Tee Higgins was tired so he chose not to participate

[BarleyNY]

55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Tee knows the run is big for him, if he didn't feel 100% prepared I think he did the right thing swerving it. As you say Shenault decided to run it unhealthy and I'm really not sure it was a wise move.

This.  Not running or participating in work outs and drills at the Combine does nothing to a player’s stock.  Doing very well might solidify or raise that of a player like Higgins slightly.  Best case scenario he’d be #1 in the second tier of WRs on everyone’s board.  But if he were to have run a 4.65 or, God forbid, a 4.7 forty instead of the expected 4.55 he could’ve plummeted.  Just one tenth of a second could hurt him badly.  And he’d be going up against a field of players who had a big advantage over him. 

 

Some people here may not realize how serious the training for the Combine is.  These players train very specifically for the events starting right after their last game.  In fact, one trick to watch is for players who only do speed events at the Combine and then do weight ones at their Pro Days.  They drop weight to get faster and bulk up to lift better.  That will give a false overall impression because it doesn’t translate to an attainable combination of playing speed and strength. 

 

Higgins could’ve worded his reasoning better, but there are a lot of posters clutching their pearls in this thread.  Parts sound like a group of old ladies sitting on their asses bitching about why little Johnny didn’t become and Eagle Scout and how he is never going to get into a good college now.  All while ignoring that he graduated with honors and worked a job for years. 

 

Higgins was going to get picked in the bottom third of the first round or the top half of the second round before the Combine.  After not running or working out he’s going to get picked in the bottom third of the first round or the top half of the second round.  22 was about the earliest he was going to go - and he’s still a possibility there if not a perfect fit.  But the funniest thing is reading the “next Sammy Watkins” comments because I can definitely see KC taking him to replace Watkins.  He’d be fantastic in that offense. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by BarleyNY

[Teddy KGB]

1 hour ago, BillsRdue said:

Yup, never been a fan. He got swallowed up in the National Championship and I just don't see him getting separation or making those tough catches as a pro. I'm hoping we can land Ruggs or Shenault, though the latter seems to be experiencing some injury problems which hopefully causes him to drop.  If we don't get either, then go DE/EDGE and take a stab at Peoples-Jones in the 2nd or move up if someone they love drops.

this is fake news.    He scored on and end around and also a long bomb which was called back over bogus flag in that game 

[Mr. WEO]

guys get winded, man.  Spiller got winded and he would be a top 15 pick to-day...

[T master]

16 hours ago, White Linen said:

He said "he had a long season and only had 4-5 weeks to prepare for this compared to the other guys who had two months or a month."

 

 

 

Sounds like he's been hanging with Kelvin Benjamin ? 

[badassgixxer05]

Clemson pro day is another 2 weeks. Makes no sense to sit this 1 out. Show you are willing to go in there and compete even if you got less rest then some of the other guys(BTW LSU kicked his ass and had a ton of guys there running). If he ran bad he can say hes still training hard and will run better in 2 weeks. My guess is hes still going to run slow at pro day anyways. Unless he finds a way to sit that one out too... 

[Lurker]

2 hours ago, Mickey said:

 

Answer me this, how on earth do you consider your hypothetical to be analogous to Tee Higgins doing what dozens of prospects are doing? Was Higgins late to his meetings? Did he short change teams he met with because of a late breakfast? It is not at all unusual for players to decide that they have a better chance to post solid drill numbers at their pro day but to go the combine any way for the sake of the meetings. You might not like that and if you want to scratch ALL of the prospects who did so off your list, fine, you do you. But to single Higgins out with this kind of nonsense just tells me you really don't like this particular prospect and are going to reach for any negative nugget of info you can find and then blow it all out of proportion. 

 

If you don't think he can separate, make contested catches, etc, then that is all the reason you need to want to pass on him. No need for all this kvetching. 

 

Nearly a dozen LSU kids took part in the combine, as did most of his Clemson teammates who were invited.    So how come Tee is so special?    

 

Another way to look at it is that the combine is analogous to a bowl game.    Players should show up and want to compete against the very best.    Not skip the "game" because they think it'll cost them money.    That's why you have pro days, so you can add data points (in addition to the combine) for teams to evaluate.    If a kid's that worried that it'll cost him $$$ because he only had 4-5 weeks to prepare, he's likely going to be the kind of mercenary, "transactional" NFL player that McDermott rails against.

 

Seems to me you have the equivalent "I like this guy so I don't see any warts" bias you accuse me of having against him.    I think character and competitiveness matter in player selection.    This is just another check mark as to why I don't want him as a Bill at #22...

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Lurker

[YoloinOhio]

29 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

this is fake news.    He scored on and end around and also a long bomb which was called back over bogus flag in that game 

The player who got swallowed up in that game was Trevor Lawrence. His passes were all over the place.

Edited March 2, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[Hapless Bills Fan]

So Joe Marino has a "Locked on Bills" podcast where he goes into his scouting of Tee Higgins, what he thinks he'd bring to the Bills, and where his gaps are.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/locked-on-bills-daily-podcast-on-the-buffalo-bills/id1145479962

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Nearly a dozen LSU kids took part in the combine, as did most of his Clemson teammates who were invited.    So how come Tee is so special?    

 

Another way to look at it is that the combine is analogous to a bowl game.    Players should show up and want to be compete against the very best.    Not skip the "game" because they think it'll cost them money.    That's why you have pro days, so you can add data points (in addition to the combine) for teams to evaluate.    If a kid's that worried that it'll cost him $$$ because he only had 4-5 weeks to prepare, he's likely going to be the kind of mercenary, "transactional" NFL player that McDermott rails against.

 

Seems to me you have the equivalent "I like this guy so I don't see any warts" bias you accuse me of having against him.    I think character and competitiveness matter in player selection.    This is just another check mark as to why I don't want him as a Bill at #22...

 

Chaisson, Burrow and Delpit didn't do any drills. They all off the board too? Chase Young didn't run..... does he lack competitiveness? Is he a transitional player? Or is it just that the people who already don't like Tee Higgins think this is a convenient stick to beat him with? You mention skipping bowl games... well Christian McCaffrey skipped his bowl game. Bet the Panthers are glad they didn't take him off the board.

 

The person who hurt himself this week was Laviska Shenault. Whoever advised him to run when he is not healthy probably just cost that kid money. Tee Higgins might not be about to win any orator of the year awards for his explanation of why he chose not to run but the simple answer is if he ran when not fully right and ran a poor time it hurts him. That isn't about putting money before competitiveness it is about giving yourself the best chance to perform to your full potential.

 

EDIT: And I certainly see warts in his game. Plenty of them. I've said before he'd make me a little leery at #22. But none of those reasons have anything to do with his decision not to run the other day.

Edited March 2, 2020 by GunnerBill

[stinky finger]

15 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I don’t love Higgins, but this doesn’t feel like a fair take. The reality is that if his body wasn’t right, there’s no point risking money and draft value to workout when he can wait and do it at his pro day. I don’t think it’s a direct sign that he’s soft. 

 

I think unprepared might be more accurate.

[YoloinOhio]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

So Joe Marino has a "Locked on Bills" podcast where he goes into his scouting of Tee Higgins, what he thinks he'd bring to the Bills, and where his gaps are.

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/locked-on-bills-daily-podcast-on-the-buffalo-bills/id1145479962

He’s been down on him specifically as a fit for Josh Allen for awhile now. He didn’t think he’s a fit because he’s mostly a downfield guy and josh can’t hit those throws or at least hasn’t shown he can. Marino did a whole Shenault vs Higgins thing about a month ago. This is a great podcast.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

He’s been down on him specifically as a fit for Josh Allen for awhile now. He didn’t think he’s a fit because he’s mostly a downfield guy and josh can’t hit those throws or at least hasn’t shown he can. Marino did a whole Shenault vs Higgins thing about a month ago. This is a great podcast.

 

One might think the way we help Josh down the field is by getting him a wide receiver who has proven himself a talented downfield target? Rather than getting him another guy (like the ones we have - mentioning no names - Robert Foster) who have demonstrated time and again their struggles to track a deep ball.

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

One might think the way we help Josh down the field is by getting him a wide receiver who has proven himself a talented downfield target? Rather than getting him another guy (like the ones we have - mentioning no names - Robert Foster) who have demonstrated time and again their struggles to track a deep ball.

He showed he was willing to chuck up 50/50 balls to Duke Williams downfield in the playoff game. If there was a better player on the other end those Catches are made more than they aren’t 

[BobChalmers]

Good Morning Football ran a quiz game today where they asked trivia questions about the top 4 WR's - Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, Higgins.

 

I'm watching with my wife in the kitchen eating breakfast and the question was "this WR's mom had to bribe him to play football by giving him Hot Wheels"

 

I shout "Has to be Tee Higgins - that dude is NOT a football player - he's soft!!" 

 

Sure enough.  It was Higgins.  Later some question that made the WR sound like tough guy comes up - Brandt tries to bail Higgins out by guessing him - I'm saying "no way" - sure enough it was Lamb.

 

I'm telling you - everything about Higgins screams not-process BUST.  Higgins is like that QB prospect from "Draft Day."  You can laugh at me later when he's putting on a yellow jacket, but mark it down, because I honestly see this guy out of the league in 3 years.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by BobChalmers

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

One might think the way we help Josh down the field is by getting him a wide receiver who has proven himself a talented downfield target? Rather than getting him another guy (like the ones we have - mentioning no names - Robert Foster) who have demonstrated time and again their struggles to track a deep ball.

 

I think we need a talented downfield target, but the problem, in the NFL, is that if a guy, any guy, is a one-note-Johnny the defenses will key on that.  They'll jam him up, they'll hold, they'll PI him. 

 

McKenzie became less effective with the jet sweeps because defenses saw him out there and said "OK, that's coming".  So they tried to work him in to other aspects of the game.

 

I guess I pretty much buy that in the first round, I think we should go for a more complete player or someone who is athletically just off the charts.  Doesn't sound as though Higgins is either.

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

Corporate Greed rules the roost, its the M O for corporations world wide. Nowadays if one does not monetize absolutely everything you have failed yourself or the stock holder, ain’t it great...

 

This is the first year I didn’t watch any of the combine. And I am a big Draft Guy. I just think the NFL has put what used to be a draft evaluation event and made it an event that is just a money grab. So I refused to watch. 

[Lurker]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Chaisson, Burrow and Delpit didn't do any drills. They all off the board too? Chase Young didn't run..... does he lack competitiveness? Is he a transitional player? Or is it just that the people who already don't like Tee Higgins think this is a convenient stick to beat him with? You mention skipping bowl games... well Christian McCaffrey skipped his bowl game. Bet the Panthers are glad they didn't take him off the board.

 

The person who hurt himself this week was Laviska Shenault. Whoever advised him to run when he is not healthy probably just cost that kid money. Tee Higgins might not be about to win any orator of the year awards for his explanation of why he chose not to run but the simple answer is if he ran when not fully right and ran a poor time it hurts him. That isn't about putting money before competitiveness it is about giving yourself the best chance to perform to your full potential.

 

I'm talking about MY requirements for being a Bill.    I want players who compete.    Full stop.     

 

It doesn't mean others won't have different opinions of Higgins or Chaisson or Delpit.   Chase Young has nothing to prove, unlike Higgens.   

 

I doubt it'll change Tee's draft slot much, particularly with the teams that get player evaluations wrong year after year (the Jets, Dolphins, Redskins, etc. say hello).   But I also can't see it helping his "profile" with teams that place a high regard on character and competitiveness, like the Bills.

 

I'm not a Shenault fan, but I give him a lot of credit for running, knowing it could potentially hurt him.   That attitude is probably why his Colorado teammates supposedly loved him so much.    It's the type of football temperament that I (and likely McBeane as well) want to build a team around, even if I don't think Viska's worth a late first pick either...   

[BobChalmers]

3 hours ago, Mickey said:

 

Answer me this, how on earth do you consider your hypothetical to be analogous to Tee Higgins doing what dozens of prospects are doing? Was Higgins late to his meetings? Did he short change teams he met with because of a late breakfast? It is not at all unusual for players to decide that they have a better chance to post solid drill numbers at their pro day but to go the combine any way for the sake of the meetings. You might not like that and if you want to scratch ALL of the prospects who did so off your list, fine, you do you. But to single Higgins out with this kind of nonsense just tells me you really don't like this particular prospect and are going to reach for any negative nugget of info you can find and then blow it all out of proportion. 

 

If you don't think he can separate, make contested catches, etc, then that is all the reason you need to want to pass on him. No need for all this kvetching. 

 

How about, "he doesn't care about his new job enough to show up for the big interview day?"

 

Maybe if his mommy offered him another toy he'd show?

 

 

Edited March 2, 2020 by BobChalmers

[stinky finger]

3 hours ago, Mickey said:

There were 10 WR's at the combine that didn't run and plenty of players at numerous positions across the board who skipped some or even all of the drills. Why are we singling out Tee Higgins for doing the same? They all have agents and a bevy of advisors working with them to develop the best plan for them to get drafted as high as possible. Obviously, many of them are following that advice. So by all means, let's come down on a college kid following the expert, highly paid advice he is getting. 

 

If you don't like Higgins' play on the field, fine, drop him from your board but reaching a conclusion on a meaningless answer? Weird. 

 

Advisor: Tee, after analyzing all the data we think its best that you wait until your pro day like dozens of other prospects are doing.

Tee: Ummm, okay, what do I say when they ask why?

Advisor: Just tell 'em you're tired.

Tee: Okay.

Twitterheads: Higgins is soft!!!!

 

In this skit, is this Higgins' advisor?

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, BobChalmers said:

 

How about, "he doesn't care about his new job enough to show up for the big interview day?"

 

Maybe if his mommy offered him another toy he'd show?

 

 

He did interview... this is getting kind of extreme. Deandre Hopkins trashed a hotel room at the combine and he turned out pretty good. If teams are concerned he chose to do drills on pro day instead then they will dig deeper, but it’s not going to determine how good of a player he becomes. Some guys want to focus on football and not the combine drills. Totally different prep. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by YoloinOhio