billykay Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 31 minutes ago, whorlnut said: Haha...you’re going there, huh? You have been posting condescending remarks since the first one that I responded to. Pot meet kettle...;) Listening to your back and forth with Logic, I have to say that you are the one with the nasty comments while he has been a gentleman. Shut it down before a Mod does.
danh920 Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 You can trade back into the bottom of the 1st with your second/third and some of the other plethora of picks we have. Every team is a knee injury or 2 away from being in a position to draft Trevor Lawrence next year. You retain your future picks for that reason (among others).
Florida Bills Fanatic Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 3 hours ago, mikemac2001 said: They do this all the time. Why does this seem like such a crazy idea to you? It would either cost our 2nd and something or a first next year and something If this draft wasn't really deep with first and second round talent, you might have a point. The facts are that this is a deep draft with significant talent in the position groups where the Bills have a need. It is highly probable that the Bills will be able to get contributors in all of the first three rounds. IMHO the only thing that would drive them to move up is if they are enamored with a particular individual that has dropped into a place where a move is possible. Giving up next year's number one seems out of character for Beane. It smacks of the Whaley/Watkins disaster. I believe that packaging their third round pick with some later picks to move back into the second round is much more likely and less costly. Realistically, we shouldn't be shocked if Beane moves back to gain a pick for either this year or 2021. He isn't a sit back and let the draft come to him kind of GM.
njbuff Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 If anything, trade back and not trade back into the first round. There are a ton of playmakers available in this draft, so there is ZERO need to press the issue. Problem is, I have no idea how FA is going to unfold because of these insane contracts that average players are DEMANDING before March 18. The Bills might have to trade back and get extra picks because the salary demands of these FA is just way too high to be going shopping in FA. 1
BarleyNY Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 3 hours ago, whorlnut said: Fine. But either way. It’s not that far from what the Ravens did in 2018 to move to the bottom of the first to get Lamar Jackson. They were in the 16 range and we are at 22. Anyone remember what the gave up? I think it seems good to you because you don’t have a realistic idea of the cost. The JJ trade chart is probably the best case scenario of what we’d have to give up: https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=Buf I’ve got no problem with being aggressive, but it’s got to be for real value. I can’t imagine what player would both fall to the bottom of the first and be worth giving up so much for. We’d be better off looking at moving up in the second.
whorlnut Posted February 29, 2020 Author Posted February 29, 2020 47 minutes ago, NewEra said: You really come off like “that guy”. Ain’t no doubt about it I created a thread and the guys that didn’t agree hanged up on me...but I’m “that guy”? Ok...
NewEra Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 1 minute ago, whorlnut said: I created a thread and the guys that didn’t agree hanged up on me...but I’m “that guy”? Ok... You’re very defensive. Ok 1
CommonCents Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 What’s the logic? Just because a guy is drafted in the first 32 picks he is going to have more success? Haven’t we seen enough evidence that this is far from true. Keep your picks, use them wisely. Win games.
HappyDays Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said: Please don’t trade up in the 1st round for a WR in a draft supposedly full of WR talent. 3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I never like the idea of next year’s first. Things change quickly in the NFL. God forbid an injury to Josh and you might be dealing a top 5 pick a year from now for a swing at a WR that you may be able to get 20 picks after. I don't think you win championships with this mindset. We don't just need WR depth, we need a true #1 WR capable of taking over games. There are 3 WRs in this draft that everyone agrees has that ability. We don't need a lot of quality players, we need 1 or 2 superstars. I'd like to get the superstar pass rusher in free agency and the superstar WR in the draft. The only way that will happen is if we trade up and it may cost next year's 1st to do it. I'm not gonna hedge my bets because I'm worried about an injury. Every big draft or contract decision has the injury disclaimer. You can't base your decisions around the worst case scenario. I want us going into this year under the assumption we're drafting in the high 20s or 30s next year. Why not? It's year 3 of the coach, GM, and QB all being together. What are we waiting for? We hit on mid round picks often enough to sacrifice a single 1st round pick for a true #1 WR that can take this offense to the next level. What are we missing out on next year if we give that pick away? Everyone always brings up the Sammy trade as a warning but the players we "missed out" on are Cameron Erving, Nelson Agholor, Cedric Ogbuehi, Alvin Dupree, Shane Ray... Eh, I think I'm okay with the risk of missing out on one of those players. If we trade up for one of the top 3 receivers and they don't live up to their billing it will be frustrating, but even the worst case scenario isn't going to tank our future. Edited February 29, 2020 by HappyDays 1
BringBackOrton Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 1 minute ago, HappyDays said: I don't think you win championships with this mindset. We don't just need WR depth, we need a true #1 WR capable of taking over games. There are 3 WRs in this draft that everyone agrees has that ability. We don't need a lot of quality players, we need 1 or 2 superstars. I'd like to get the superstar pass rusher in free agency and the superstar WR in the draft. The only way that will happen is if we trade up and it may cost next year's 1st to do it. I'm not gonna hedge my bets because I'm worried about an injury. Every big draft or contract decision has the injury disclaimer. You can't base your decisions around the worst case scenario. I want us going into this year under the assumption we're drafting in the high 20s or 30s next year. Why not? It's year 3 of the coach, GM, and QB all being together. What are we waiting for? We hit on mid round picks often enough to sacrifice a single 1st round pick for a true #1 WR that can take this offense to the next level. What are we missing out on next year? Everyone always brings up the Sammy trade as a warning but the players we "missed out" on are Danny Shelton, Andrus Peat, Devante Parker, Melvin Gordon, Kevin Johnson... eh, I think I'm okay with the risk of missing out on one of those players. If we trade up for one of the top 3 receivers and they don't live up to their billing it will be frustrating, but even the worst case scenario isn't going to tank our future. This is all spot on. A deep WR draft means that there are a lot of players with a Robert Woods-type ceiling. Fine players, but not game-breakers. We don't need fine players as much as we need game-breakers. We need a guy that BB is gonna make Gilmore shadow all game. A guy where the safety is rolling over every time he goes deep. That's how you get Josh the 1 on 1's that are easy to spot for first downs. 3
Kirby Jackson Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 3 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I don't think you win championships with this mindset. We don't just need WR depth, we need a true #1 WR capable of taking over games. There are 3 WRs in this draft that everyone agrees has that ability. We don't need a lot of quality players, we need 1 or 2 superstars. I'd like to get the superstar pass rusher in free agency and the superstar WR in the draft. The only way that will happen is if we trade up and it may cost next year's 1st to do it. I'm not gonna hedge my bets because I'm worried about an injury. Every big draft or contract decision has the injury disclaimer. You can't base your decisions around the worst case scenario. I want us going into this year under the assumption we're drafting in the high 20s or 30s next year. Why not? It's year 3 of the coach, GM, and QB all being together. What are we waiting for? We hit on mid round picks often enough to sacrifice a single 1st round pick for a true #1 WR that can take this offense to the next level. What are we missing out on next year? Everyone always brings up the Sammy trade as a warning but the players we "missed out" on are Cameron Erving, Nelson Agholor, Cedric Ogbuehi, Alvin Dupree, Shane Ray... Eh, I think I'm okay with the risk of missing out on one of those players. If we trade up for one of the top 3 receivers and they don't live up to their billing it will be frustrating, but even the worst case scenario isn't going to tank our future. If you read my posts I’ve said that I have no issue (at all) trading up for a top 3 WR. I don’t want to use next year’s 1 but I’m fine using the 2 and another pick to get one of them. That post that you quoted was about trading back into the late 1st for a guy. I don’t see the value. The guys in the late 1st aren’t much different than the guys in round 2.
whorlnut Posted February 29, 2020 Author Posted February 29, 2020 18 minutes ago, njbuff said: If anything, trade back and not trade back into the first round. There are a ton of playmakers available in this draft, so there is ZERO need to press the issue. Problem is, I have no idea how FA is going to unfold because of these insane contracts that average players are DEMANDING before March 18. The Bills might have to trade back and get extra picks because the salary demands of these FA is just way too high to be going shopping in FA. Not all playmakers are created equal. What if Beane targets only a couple in this draft that fits what he wants? If that’s the case you make a move to get him. 13 minutes ago, NewEra said: You’re very defensive. Ok No I’m not...I am just supporting my opinion. I knew it wouldn’t be popular. Besides...there are many “that guys” on this board. In the end we are all fans or are supposed to be. I gave an opinion and others disagreed. It’s fine...move on...
njbuff Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 1 minute ago, whorlnut said: Not all playmakers are created equal. What if Beane targets only a couple in this draft that fits what he wants? If that’s the case you make a move to get him. I trust what Beane wants to do. I am fine with it either way. The insane contracts that the UFA's are demanding before March 18th arrives is what has me worried as Beane might have to use the draft to fill holes because of this insanity.
NewEra Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, whorlnut said: Not all playmakers are created equal. What if Beane targets only a couple in this draft that fits what he wants? If that’s the case you make a move to get him. No I’m not...I am just supporting my opinion. I knew it wouldn’t be popular. Besides...there are many “that guys” on this board. In the end we are all fans or are supposed to be. I gave an opinion and others disagreed. It’s fine...move on... Whatever you say
thebandit27 Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, CommonCents said: What’s the logic? Just because a guy is drafted in the first 32 picks he is going to have more success? Haven’t we seen enough evidence that this is far from true. Keep your picks, use them wisely. Win games. Well, I suppose if you’re looking for a good enough reason from an investment standpoint, you could argue that getting the 5th year option that’s incumbent upon first round contracts would be a reason. That said, I think this is a good year for the Bills to trade back, of which I’m typically not a fan. I usually like staying put, but assuming that the Bills are able to fill needs at WR, EDGE, and LB prior to the draft, moving down from 22 makes a ton of sense. Why? Because (a) they can stock up on picks that can be used to move back up from rounds 4-6 for more day 2 prospects, and (b) they’re in a very good draft slot to have leverage. I believe there will end up being between 18 and 21 first-round grades this season. Now I’m sure that some teams will have more and some will have less, and that those players with round 1 grades will differ among teams, but in general that’s what I expect. Picking at 22, the odds are very good that a team behind you will see the last 1-2 of their first-round-graded players on the board and want to move up. Assuming you’re comfortable with 4/5 guys there, you can slide back several spots, grab a 3rd, and take from your list. Then you’re in a position where you have 3 day-2 picks plus 5 picks in rounds 5/6 that you can use to move up. You could end up getting 6 players from the first 4 rounds if you play it right. 3 minutes ago, njbuff said: I trust what Beane wants to do. I am fine with it either way. The insane contracts that the UFA's are demanding before March 18th arrives is what has me worried as Beane might have to use the draft to fill holes because of this insanity. Why? We have plenty of cap space to pay FAs. 1
njbuff Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Well, I suppose if you’re looking for a good enough reason from an investment standpoint, you could argue that getting the 5th year option that’s incumbent upon first round contracts would be a reason. That said, I think this is a good year for the Bills to trade back, of which I’m typically not a fan. I usually like staying put, but assuming that the Bills are able to fill needs at WR, EDGE, and LB prior to the draft, moving down from 22 makes a ton of sense. Why? Because (a) they can stock up on picks that can be used to move back up from rounds 4-6 for more day 2 prospects, and (b) they’re in a very good draft slot to have leverage. I believe there will end up being between 18 and 21 first-round grades this season. Now I’m sure that some teams will have more and some will have less, and that those players with round 1 grades will differ among teams, but in general that’s what I expect. Picking at 22, the odds are very good that a team behind you will see the last 1-2 of their first-round-graded players on the board and want to move up. Assuming you’re comfortable with 4/5 guys there, you can slide back several spots, grab a 3rd, and take from your list. Then you’re in a position where you have 3 day-2 picks plus 5 picks in rounds 5/6 that you can use to move up. You could end up getting 6 players from the first 4 rounds if you play it right. Why? We have plenty of cap space to pay FAs. I don't care what kind of cap room they have, do you wanna pay average players like James Bradberry 15 mill a year? Cause that is what these players are demanding.
Kirby Jackson Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 Just now, njbuff said: I don't care what kind of cap room they have, do you wanna pay average players like James Bradberry 15 mill a year? Cause that is what these players are demanding. If the cap keeps rising every year that’s not an issue. In 2 years that may even be considered good value.
njbuff Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: If the cap keeps rising every year that’s not an issue. In 2 years that may even be considered good value. Not when you have to re-sign your own.
BringBackOrton Posted February 29, 2020 Posted February 29, 2020 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: If the cap keeps rising every year that’s not an issue. In 2 years that may even be considered good value. '"Robert Woods isn't worth that kind of money the Rams gave him" He has the 27th highest WR cap hit in the NFL now. 1
whorlnut Posted February 29, 2020 Author Posted February 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I don't think you win championships with this mindset. We don't just need WR depth, we need a true #1 WR capable of taking over games. There are 3 WRs in this draft that everyone agrees has that ability. We don't need a lot of quality players, we need 1 or 2 superstars. I'd like to get the superstar pass rusher in free agency and the superstar WR in the draft. The only way that will happen is if we trade up and it may cost next year's 1st to do it. I'm not gonna hedge my bets because I'm worried about an injury. Every big draft or contract decision has the injury disclaimer. You can't base your decisions around the worst case scenario. I want us going into this year under the assumption we're drafting in the high 20s or 30s next year. Why not? It's year 3 of the coach, GM, and QB all being together. What are we waiting for? We hit on mid round picks often enough to sacrifice a single 1st round pick for a true #1 WR that can take this offense to the next level. What are we missing out on next year if we give that pick away? Everyone always brings up the Sammy trade as a warning but the players we "missed out" on are Cameron Erving, Nelson Agholor, Cedric Ogbuehi, Alvin Dupree, Shane Ray... Eh, I think I'm okay with the risk of missing out on one of those players. If we trade up for one of the top 3 receivers and they don't live up to their billing it will be frustrating, but even the worst case scenario isn't going to tank our future. This was exactly what I was trying to get at.
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