Free Agency News and Updates - around the league

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Shaq's recent social media posts are interesting. Clearly ODB is busy today re-signing Spain and restructuring Kroft, so maybe he sees that and his posts are like, "Hey, my turn?" Or, he's effin' around, or maybe homeboy struck a new deal with them. I figured he'd definitely be one to test the market, but maybe that's changed now given the fact that he's turned into a big part of the locker room. Maybe he wants to stay here where he's established and where he's become somewhat of a leader.

 

I think he played well in 2019, pretty solid all around player, but he doesn't really pop off the screen with any one skill. He seems to know the defense and his assignments real well, gets a lot of props for being good against the run. As for his sacks, though, I feel like all or most of them are coverage sacks. He's not exactly buzzing right past guys with speed or making them whiff with a set of ninja-like moves. If he does get to the QB right off the rip he's usually up against a TE or a back. One-on-one against OL, he really has to work to get a sack. That was kind of his story in college, too. Maybe he's trending towards becoming a guy who can beat an OL the way he slapped around TBD Perennial All-Universe Mega-Legend "OMG why did they ever let this guy walk, fire Beane now!!111" Supergod Nick O'Leary, like he did in '18. Maybe the brass is super impressed with how he responded to their "earn it" message and they think he can only get better from here. We shall see. 

 

For the record, I like Shaq and would welcome him back on a fair deal. 

[Locomark]

2 hours ago, H2o said:

I am still holding out hope we re-sign Lawson. He has turned into a solid all-around player in this defense. He had 6.5 sacks to Ngakoue's 8 sacks, but in 320 less defensive snaps. 

If you think Shaq compares favorably to Ngakoue, you really must be on some magic mushrooms.....    Shaq and fat boy 97 got sacks because our back 7 were blanketing people and the QBs were getting cleaned up after 4-5 seconds , not due to their rush prowess. Shaq is a stay at home stop the run first guy who is at best an average player. Anything over $8/yr is a total waste of cash. Murphy actually produces more that him in terms of forcing turnovers and pressures, which isn't saying much. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Locomark

[947]

46 minutes ago, Locomark said:

If you think Shaq compares favorably to Ngakoue, you really must be on some magic mushrooms.....    Shaq and fat boy 97 got sacks because our back 7 were blanketing people and the QBs were getting cleaned up after 4-5 seconds , not due to their rush prowess. Shaq is a stay at home stop the run first guy who is at best an average player. Anything over $8/yr is a total waste of cash. Murphy actually produces more that him in terms of forcing turnovers and pressures, which isn't saying much. 

I think Shaq is better than average. Not a star, but solid. I don't think he's worth $10M+/year, but losing him would hurt, unless we sign another solid DE.

[GreggTX]

Has anyone rumored the Bills to be interested in Scherff and Thuney so we can pound the rock and take some more of the load from JA's shoulders? I would also really love to see speedy Matt Breida at RB for us. I could see them splitting Breida out in a slot position once in a while they did with Spiller. If used correctly, he could really help us, as long as they're signing some serious OL and CB help to go with WR, LB, TE & DE. Ngakoue, Reader and Hooper or Henry at TE would be nice adds too. Henry is a good receiver and blocker. Hooper is a borderline elite receiving TE and would possibly be the best TE in franchise history. We've had precious few great TE's on the Bills over the last 60 years. Reuben Cant anyone? Jan White?

 

Shaq Lawson is the very definition of 'average NFL DE'. I'd offer him the league average. Why was it only in a contract year that he got somewhat hot? He's had 4 years to prove himself, so unless McDermott thinks he will continue to improve even after 4 years like Jerry Hughes did, I wouldn't pay anything over the league average for DE.

Edited March 13, 2020 by GreggTX

[GreggTX]

Jonathan Joseph would also be a good 1 or 2 year deal. He's not great, but he's still better than any CB on our roster except White. He and Norman can compete and draft a CB too. Our depth at CB is lacking.

 

Hyde may be the closest thing to a power runner prototype some like. Me too, but I wonder how effective he'd be for us?

Edited March 13, 2020 by GreggTX

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, GreggTX said:

Jonathan Joseph would also be a good 1 or 2 year deal. He's not great, but he's still better than any CB on our roster except White. He and Norman can compete and draft a CB too. Our depth at CB is lacking.Hyde may be the closest thing to a power runner prototype some like. Me too, but I wonder how effective he'd be for us?

I can’t imagine Hyde is headed anywhere he’s not gonna get the majority of touches after a nice 1,000 yd season. 

[H2o]

8 hours ago, Locomark said:

If you think Shaq compares favorably to Ngakoue, you really must be on some magic mushrooms.....    Shaq and fat boy 97 got sacks because our back 7 were blanketing people and the QBs were getting cleaned up after 4-5 seconds , not due to their rush prowess. Shaq is a stay at home stop the run first guy who is at best an average player. Anything over $8/yr is a total waste of cash. Murphy actually produces more that him in terms of forcing turnovers and pressures, which isn't saying much. 

They are not the same type of player physically, but Shaq PRODUCED on the field the same number of tackles for loss (13), 1.5 less sacks, was only 9 total tackles behind  Yannick, and had 18 QB hits to Ngakoue's 15 in 320 LESS DEFENSIVE SNAPS. It's not all due to the back end of the defense. Murphy is not the better player, especially when you watch the two having to move around in space. Murphy looks dreadful lumbering around out there. The staff likes him though and he is a decent rotational option. I think you could see Frazier and McDermott's trust grow with Lawson as the season went along which is why he started to get more PT as the season progressed. You can see how they used him in the attachment below. I think they want him back and I believe he will see the field a lot more in 2020 if he is.

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

 

Shaq Lawson is the very definition of 'average NFL DE'. I'd offer him the league average. Why was it only in a contract year that he got somewhat hot? He's had 4 years to prove himself, so unless McDermott thinks he will continue to improve even after 4 years like Jerry Hughes did, I wouldn't pay anything over the league average for DE.

Any idea what the league average DE makes? I mean how much of a difference are we talking about here? There must be some value to retaining players who already know the system. And...can anyone name or find this comparable average player who’s currently available?

[Kirby Jackson]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Any idea what the league average DE makes? I mean how much of a difference are we talking about here? There must be some value to retaining players who already know the system. And...can anyone name or find this comparable average player who’s currently available?

There’s really no such thing as an average salary. It’s totally dependent on when you sign it. What looks like a lot now will look like value in 2022. The cap and salaries rise every year. Think that most on here expect Shaq to be somewhere between $8M-$12M a year.

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

There’s really no such thing as an average salary. It’s totally dependent on when you sign it. What looks like a lot now will look like value in 2022. The cap and salaries rise every year. Think that most on here expect Shaq to be somewhere between $8M-$12M a year.

I understand your point but there is in fact an average salary every year. It’s just math. 

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

I understand your point but there is in fact an average salary every year. It’s just math. 

An average salary for the league, or an average salary for a starter, or an average salary for a guy that played less than 50% of his team’s snaps and produced over 5 sacks?

 

Know what I’m saying?

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

An average salary for the league, or an average salary for a starter, or an average salary for a guy that played less than 50% of his team’s snaps and produced over 5 sacks?

 

Know what I’m saying?

I’m only quoting a previous post in which someone felt Shaq was worth average DE money. I’m going to guess he was referring to average starter money for a guy of similar veteran status. But I’m just guessing. 

[thenorthremembers]

Shaq Lawson- 6.5 Sacks as a backup is an average NFL Defensive End

Yannick Ngakoue- 8 Sacks as a full time starter is a star lets pay him 20 million a year

Jadeveon Clowney- 3 Sacks as a starter is a star lets payhim 20 million a year

 

I love NFL Free Agency.

[Kirby Jackson]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I understand your point but there is in fact an average salary every year. It’s just math. 

Kind of but teams don’t do it that way and neither do agents. They try to use comps like buying a home. While technically, there is an average price to buy a home that’s not really a factor. The price is based on size, location, etc... The sellers want the biggest number possible (the players) and the buyers want the best value in terms of a number (the teams). The agents will argue for contracts more similar to players on the high range of the comparison. The teams are trying to use lower priced players with similar numbers as their comp. They negotiate until they come to a number that everyone agrees to.

[thebandit27]

14 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Shaq Lawson- 6.5 Sacks as a backup is an average NFL Defensive End

Yannick Ngakoue- 8 Sacks as a full time starter is a star lets pay him 20 million a year

Jadeveon Clowney- 3 Sacks as a starter is a star lets payhim 20 million a year

 

I love NFL Free Agency.

This is the kind of thing that happens when you don’t watch the games; box score scouting makes people say odd things.

 

If you watch the 3 guys and see the enormous difference between them it’s easy to understand.

 

[DCbillsfan]

34 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Shaq Lawson- 6.5 Sacks as a backup is an average NFL Defensive End

Yannick Ngakoue- 8 Sacks as a full time starter is a star lets pay him 20 million a year

Jadeveon Clowney- 3 Sacks as a starter is a star lets payhim 20 million a year

 

I love NFL Free Agency.

I would love to have Clowney.  He is such a disruptor on the field.  Teams have to game plan for him and even then he makes a lot of plays.  It goes way beyond his sack numbers.  The Bills defense would go up a level with Clowney.

[whatdrought]

42 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Shaq Lawson- 6.5 Sacks as a backup is an average NFL Defensive End

Yannick Ngakoue- 8 Sacks as a full time starter is a star lets pay him 20 million a year

Jadeveon Clowney- 3 Sacks as a starter is a star lets payhim 20 million a year

 

I love NFL Free Agency.

Your overall argument has some merit- is it worth paying those guys instead of Shaq?

 

Any attempt on your part to say that Shaq is as good a player as those two is just wrong and makes you look foolish. 

[BeastMaster]

54 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

This is the kind of thing that happens when you don’t watch the games; box score scouting makes people say odd things.

 

If you watch the 3 guys and see the enormous difference between them it’s easy to understand.

 

Absolutely. 

 

Terrible post from that person 

27 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Your overall argument has some merit- is it worth paying those guys instead of Shaq?

 

Any attempt on your part to say that Shaq is as good a player as those two is just wrong and makes you look foolish. 

I do think there's an argument to be made where you could debate the value between Shaq vs Ngakoue. One is better than the other as a pass rusher as opposed to the run and vice versa, but Shaq has played less snap vs pass rush having more value. Figure in having to pay double for Ngakoue and I actually think I'd rather have Shaq, but that's certainly worth debate.

 

Now Clowney on the other hand is a complete player and game changer. No debating he's clearly the top guy out there, and I'd have ZERO issue paying him 20 mil per year with 60-80 mil guaranteed.

 

 

[thenorthremembers]

43 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Your overall argument has some merit- is it worth paying those guys instead of Shaq?

 

Any attempt on your part to say that Shaq is as good a player as those two is just wrong and makes you look foolish. 

Thats your opinion.  I think wanting to pay a player who has played one full season in six years 20 million dollars a year is foolish.

 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by thenorthremembers

[whatdrought]

5 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Thats your opinion.  I think wanting to pay a player who has played one full season in six years 20 million dollars a year is foolish.

 

 

It is, and it’s a widely held opinion among literally everyone that follows the sport- that in of itself doesn’t make it true, of course, but it’s hard to argue your side when all the evidence and analysis is saying the other. 
 

Don’t misinterpret me though, I’m not saying it’s right or wrong to pay those guys over Shaq, just that they’re better players- hence their increased value.