Free Agency News and Updates - around the league

[cle23]

45 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

I really don't understand what you're getting at.

 

I don't think Watkins has ever realized his full potential at the NFL level. That's a fair criticism. 

 

I think he's meaning if Watkins out in the effort and maximized his talent, he wouldn't be a bust. So it s combination of draft position and player. 

[papazoid]

from the bills perspective...the sammy pick at #4 was a total disaster.

 

from the player perspective....he's still in the league...in 2018 signed a 3yr/$48 mil deal/$30 guaranteed...just reworked a little for 2020.

 

far from a bust

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Cripple Creek said:

In my opinion, by a wide margin. Bust.

It's funny how a number 4 pick can have a career that is sporadic between some huge games, some meh games, some "not much" games and some injuries, contribute to a Super Bowl win and sign some decent contracts, but still be considered a huge bust by some and "ok" by others.  You won't find anyone assuming he is a critical piece to anything whether he can be or not.

 

Contrast this with the consensus greatest draft propspect of all time who had a career with some solid stats, never really sniffed a Super Bowl, choked in a bunch of critical moments, had several injuries and retired extremely early.  Call that guy a bust and holy terror will rain down upon you forever.  Even after a career full of false hope and disappointment, we're in for a decade or so of imagining what could have been.

 

Perception is more real than reality sometimes.

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, papazoid said:

from the bills perspective...the sammy pick at #4 was a total disaster.

 

from the player perspective....he's still in the league...in 2018 signed a 3yr/$48 mil deal/$30 guaranteed...just reworked a little for 2020.

 

far from a bust

A WR that had 2100 yards and 15 TDs in his first 2 seasons catching passes from EJ, Orton, and Tyrod in an offense that threw the ball less than any other in football is a disaster? I mean yeah, he was injured in year 3, but geez.

[hjnick]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

A WR that had 2100 yards and 15 TDs in his first 2 seasons catching passes from EJ, Orton, and Tyrod in an offense that threw the ball less than any other in football is a disaster? I mean yeah, he was injured in year 3, but geez.

So was he not the same after the year 3 injury?  Just curious on your opinion on this. Thx.

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, hjnick said:

So was he not the same after the year 3 injury?  Just curious on your opinion on this. Thx.

Definitely not.

 

And a lot of heat should fall on the staff at the time. It was misdiagnosed, then mishandled, and when finally handled properly it was too late to get him into football shape for the back half of 2016. 
 

Next time we saw him play a meaningful game it was for another team.

 

Has he underachieved relative to his draft slot? Absolutely. Has he been the monumental disappointment that some folks imply? Not by a mile.

[Cripple Creek]

3 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

It's funny how a number 4 pick can have a career that is sporadic between some huge games, some meh games, some "not much" games and some injuries, contribute to a Super Bowl win and sign some decent contracts, but still be considered a huge bust by some and "ok" by others.  You won't find anyone assuming he is a critical piece to anything whether he can be or not.

 

Contrast this with the consensus greatest draft propspect of all time who had a career with some solid stats, never really sniffed a Super Bowl, choked in a bunch of critical moments, had several injuries and retired extremely early.  Call that guy a bust and holy terror will rain down upon you forever.  Even after a career full of false hope and disappointment, we're in for a decade or so of imagining what could have been.

 

Perception is more real than reality sometimes.

Not everyone Lucks into a long career.

[stinky finger]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Definitely not.

 

And a lot of heat should fall on the staff at the time. It was misdiagnosed, then mishandled, and when finally handled properly it was too late to get him into football shape for the back half of 2016. 
 

Next time we saw him play a meaningful game it was for another team.

 

Has he underachieved relative to his draft slot? Absolutely. Has he been the monumental disappointment that some folks imply? Not by a mile.

 

I'll buy this.

 

While not a disaster, he has underwhelmed from what were very high expectations.  

[ColoradoBills]

Question for anyone who knows.  Is Jaquan Johnson more a SS or a FS?

Do any of the current CBs have any FS experience?

Wondering this because Jordan Poyer is the only listed FS on the roster.

[MrEpsYtown]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

Question for anyone who knows.  Is Jaquan Johnson more a SS or a FS?

Do any of the current CBs have any FS experience?

Wondering this because Jordan Poyer is the only listed FS on the roster.

I think he’s more of a strong safety, but I don’t think it matters in this scheme. I think they are quite interchangeable. I think Hyde and Poyer both play free and strong throughout games depending on what the defensive coverage and front is. But I feel like Hyde is technically the free safety. Not sure though. 

[Stank_Nasty]

16 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Definitely not.

 

And a lot of heat should fall on the staff at the time. It was misdiagnosed, then mishandled, and when finally handled properly it was too late to get him into football shape for the back half of 2016. 
 

Next time we saw him play a meaningful game it was for another team.

 

Has he underachieved relative to his draft slot? Absolutely. Has he been the monumental disappointment that some folks imply? Not by a mile.

I’m having a hard time seeing how he’s been any sort of player worth going to bat for, like I’ve seen you do. 
 

I wanna preface this by saying I hold no ill will towards Watkins. I actually thought he was pretty darn good while he was here. That be said, when we talk about his career as a whole, underachieved is quite the understatement. let’s break this down. He was basically a mega-recruit coming out of Clemson. Touted to the max. Everyone knew he wouldn’t get out of the top 5. He proceeds to average 700yds and 5 td a season over his first 6 years. How is this not borderline bust status? i would argue the ONLY thing saving him is the fact he’s put together 2 really good post seasons recently. Other than that if this was any other wr that never played for the bills I think we would all agree he was dangerously close to being a bust. 
 

an elite wr prospect that gets drafted in the top 5 and 6 years later has ONE 1000 yd season under his belt. I’m sorry but that’s a bust.... again I think the only thing saving him is he 2 recent postseason runs. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[Watkins101]

Here's a new way to think about this argument: To have a more technical approach, I looked up the definition of a draft bust. It is someone not living up to where they were drafted. So thinking about this, one way to go would be to look at all #4 overall picks, and see which players you would rather have, Sammy or Player X. If Sammy is in the bottom 20-30% then bust. If he isnt, then I would say he isnt a bust, just not a star for where he was drafted. I unfortunately do not have football knowledge enough to go back far enough to do this. If anybody wants to, here is a list of all 4th overall picks, 1980-2013.

 

4th Overall Draft Picks
Year	Player	Pos.	School	Drafted By
2013	Lane Johnson	OT	Oklahoma	Philadelphia
2012	Matt Kalil	OT	USC	Minnesota
2011	AJ Green	WR	Georgia	Cincinnati
2010	Trent Williams	OT	Oklahoma	Washington
2009	Aaron Curry	OLB	Wake Forest	Seattle
2008	Darren McFadden	RB	Arkansas	Oakland
2007	Gaines Adams	DE	Clemson	Tampa Bay
2006	D'Brickashaw Ferguson	OT	Virginia	New York Jets
2005	Cedric Benson	RB	Texas	Chicago
2004	Philip Rivers	QB	North Carolina State	N.Y. Giants
2003	Dewayne Robertson	DT	Kentucky	N.Y. Jets
2002	Mike Williams	T	Texas	Buffalo
2001	Justin Smith	DE	Missouri	Cincinnati
2000	Peter Warrick	WR	Florida State	Cincinnati
1999	Edgerrin James	RB	Miami	Indianapolis
1998	Charles Woodson	CB	Michigan	Oakland
1997	Peter Boulware	OLB	Florida State	Baltimore
1996	Jonathan Ogden	T	UCLA	Baltimore
1995	Michael Westbrook	WR	Colorado	Washington
1994	Willie McGinest	OLB	Southern California	New England
1993	Marvin Jones	MLB	Florida State	N.Y. Jets
1992	Desmond Howard	WR	Michigan	Washington
1991	Mike Croel	OLB	Nebraska	Denver
1990	Keith McCants	DE	Alabama	Tampa Bay
1989	Derrick Thomas	DE	Alabama	Kansas City
1988	Paul Gruber	T	Wisconsin	Tampa Bay
1987	Brent Fullwood	RB	Auburn	Green Bay
1986	Jon Hand	DE	Alabama	Indianapolis
1985	Chris Doleman	DE	Pittsburgh	Minnesota
1984	Kenny Jackson	WR	Penn State	Philadelphia
1983	Chris Hinton	T	Northwestern	Denver
1982	Art Schlichter	QB	Ohio State	Baltimore
1981	Kenny Easley	DB	UCLA	Seattle
1980	Bruce Clark	DT	Penn State	Green Bay

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I’m having a hard time seeing how he’s been any sort of player worth going to bat for, like I’ve seen you do. 
 

I wanna preface this by saying I hold no ill will towards Watkins. I actually thought he was pretty darn good while he was here. That be said, when we talk about his career as a whole, underachieved is quite the understatement. let’s break this down. He was basically a mega-recruit coming out of Clemson. Touted to the max. Everyone knew he wouldn’t get out of the top 5. He proceeds to average 700yds and 5 td a season over his first 6 years. How is this not borderline bust status? i would argue the ONLY thing saving him is the fact he’s put together 2 really good post seasons recently. Other than that if this was any other wr that never played for the bills I think we would all agree he was dangerously close to being a bust. 
 

an elite wr prospect that gets drafted in the top 5 and 6 years later has ONE 1000 yd season under his belt. I’m sorry but that’s a bust.... again I think the only thing saving him is he 2 recent postseason runs. 

It was fun goofing on him for being a decoy, etc, but he's part of history now. Anyone can watch footage of him making plays in a Super Bowl that helped his team win the Lombardi,. Like Chris Hogan, that trumps everything else, and can never be taken away from him. Disappointing in Buffalo, yes. Bust, no.

[Gugny]

6 minutes ago, Rico said:

It was fun goofing on him for being a decoy, etc, but he's part of history now. Anyone can watch footage of him making plays in a Super Bowl that helped his team win the Lombardi,. Like Chris Hogan, that trumps everything else, and can never be taken away from him. Disappointing in Buffalo, yes. Bust, no.

 

Agree 100%.  I've never been a Sam Fan.  But there's a difference between not reaching potential and being a bust.  He could have been elite.  He's not.  But he's still very good and can be great at times.

 

I'm just glad he's not in Buffalo anymore.

[Orlando Buffalo]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

It was fun goofing on him for being a decoy, etc, but he's part of history now. Anyone can watch footage of him making plays in a Super Bowl that helped his team win the Lombardi,. Like Chris Hogan, that trumps everything else, and can never be taken away from him. Disappointing in Buffalo, yes. Bust, no.

Reading what you wrote made me realize the standard for some people is either totally worth it or bust. A player drafted in the top 10 who is average is not a bust unless you think the majority of top 10 picks are busts because most top guys only become average pros. I think a more reasonable standard for bust status is a guy who is out of the league in 4 years. 

[BillsFan4]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108552/article/afc-east-roster-reset-patriots-vulnerable-after-tom-bradys-exit

“AFC East roster reset: Patriots vulnerable after Tom Brady's exit?”

 

I got a laugh out of the author saying that the Bills, after the Diggs trade “have just 7 draft picks” total in this (7 round) draft... lol 

Edited April 7, 2020 by BillsFan4

[CNYfan]

51 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108552/article/afc-east-roster-reset-patriots-vulnerable-after-tom-bradys-exit

“AFC East roster reset: Patriots vulnerable after Tom Brady's exit?”

 

I got a laugh out of the author saying that the Bills, after the Diggs trade “have just 7 draft picks” total in this (7 round) draft... lol 

 

I think the Patriots have 12 and the Dolphins have a bunch early, including as we know, 3 (presently) in the first round.

[Stank_Nasty]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Agree 100%.  I've never been a Sam Fan.  But there's a difference between not reaching potential and being a bust.  He could have been elite.  He's not.  But he's still very good and can be great at times.

 

I'm just glad he's not in Buffalo anymore.

So 1 single 1000 yd season, in his first 6 years, for a top 5 pick that was regardEd as a generational talent at his position and he’s very good? 

 

so let me get this straight. We are now calling wr’s that have a 6 year average of 700 yds and 5 td a season very good? 
 

 

I get it. Postseason runs. But at what point does a player get held accountable for the totality of his work? This dude has been in the 2 most prolific offenses of the last 3 or 4 years and can’t sniff 1000 yds. If a running back was picked in the top 5, and after 6 seasons had eclipsed 1000 yds ONCE and never made a probowl would we be calling him “very good”? 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

So 1 single 1000 yd season, in his first 6 years, for a top 5 pick that was regardEd as a generational talent at his position and he’s very good? 

 

so let me get this straight. We are now calling wr’s that have a 6 year average of 700 yds and 5 td a season very good? 
 

 

I get it. Postseason runs. But at what point does a player get held accountable for the totality of his work? This dude has been in the 2 most prolific offenses of the last 3 or 4 years and can’t sniff 1000 yds. If a running back was picked in the top 5, and after 6 seasons had eclipsed 1000 yds ONCE and never made a probowl would we be calling him “very good”? 

 

I was TRYING to be kind.

 

But you're right.  I gave him way too much credit.

 

[Stank_Nasty]

20 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I was TRYING to be kind.

 

But you're right.  I gave him way too much credit.

 

I coulda came off as a jerk there. Didn’t mean to. I’m just trying to figure out how a top 5 pick averaging 700 yds a season, in the passing era, isn’t a borderline bust. Literally the only thing keeping Watkins above that threshold is postseason production.