Jordan Palmer on Josh Allen

[Franco_92]

4 minutes ago, LB48 said:

I Must Comment on the entire Jordan Palmer SCAM!  He's created a BRAND NAME for himself with nothing to back it up!

He played three years in the NFL and never started a game.  He completed 11 passes for 66 total yards, no TD's and 2 interceptions.

IF you THINK his $61 million dollar NET WORTH at age 35 came from his playing career you are very naive!

 

He's built up a wonderful 'guru' camp that appeals to young QB's that helps them with their self-confidence.  Footwork and accuracy are normally a natural reaction and not able to be taught.  When the pressure comes you revert to your natural instincts.

 

 

 

I guess Wayne Gretzky should be a much better hockey coach than Craig Berube, considering that Wayne is the greatest hockey player of all time while Craig sucked. 

 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Thanks for summarizing it.  But isn’t he Allen’s qb coach that works with him in the offseason.  I mean what else is he supposed to say?

 

i think it would be interesting to hear his criticisms of Allen and things he needs to improve on.

Did you not listen to the interview???  Let me summarize for you: deep ball definitely an area of work; footwork and some bad habits re-emerge from a long season and people falling around your feet.  Needs to improve on   throwing them open versus leading them on the intermediate and deep throws, he summed it up as non-verbal “put a pin on a map” communication with his WRs.

[Saxum]

2 hours ago, LB48 said:

I Must Comment on the entire Jordan Palmer SCAM!  He's created a BRAND NAME for himself with nothing to back it up!

 

If you want to SCAM us into believing this you need to work harder.

[Chandler#81]

6 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

Right at the end of the interview Palmer says that Josh Loves buffalo, loves being here and is thinking of nothing else but being a Buffalo Bill for his entire NFL career. 

He says that Buffalo is the biggest city that Josh has ever lived in. 

 

Man I hope Josh works out. I love rooting for him. 

My jeans are suddenly getting tighter! 

[Jumpsuit Jim]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

My jeans are suddenly getting tighter! 

If Chris Simms had done the interview, the “jean tightness” would have become excruciating. 
 

In the best way. 

[soflabillsfan1]

9 hours ago, LB48 said:

I Must Comment on the entire Jordan Palmer SCAM!  He's created a BRAND NAME for himself with nothing to back it up!

He played three years in the NFL and never started a game.  He completed 11 passes for 66 total yards, no TD's and 2 interceptions.

IF you THINK his $61 million dollar NET WORTH at age 35 came from his playing career you are very naive!

 

He's built up a wonderful 'guru' camp that appeals to young QB's that helps them with their self-confidence.  Footwork and accuracy are normally a natural reaction and not able to be taught.  When the pressure comes you revert to your natural instincts.

 

 

 

I think you're getting Carson and Jordan mixed up. No way Jordan has a 60 million dollar net worth.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

14 hours ago, whorlnut said:

With Allen he’s darned if he does and darned if he doesn’t. When I listened to Palmer saying that I knew this would be the exact reaction from some of you. SMH...

 

…...other former QB's ala Dilfer and Simms are also very high on Allen......so expect the pundits here to say, "so what...they sucked.."......SMH AGAIN...…...

[Shooter McGavin]

9 hours ago, LB48 said:

I Must Comment on the entire Jordan Palmer SCAM!  He's created a BRAND NAME for himself with nothing to back it up!

He played three years in the NFL and never started a game.  He completed 11 passes for 66 total yards, no TD's and 2 interceptions.

IF you THINK his $61 million dollar NET WORTH at age 35 came from his playing career you are very naive!

 

He's built up a wonderful 'guru' camp that appeals to young QB's that helps them with their self-confidence.  Footwork and accuracy are normally a natural reaction and not able to be taught.  When the pressure comes you revert to your natural instincts.

 

 

 

I like the part where you bolded your fabricated lie

[TigerJ]

14 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Why do we need his criticism? We have so many experts here!  

 

But yes, it’s not like he’s going to say “he’s made very little progress in the offseason, I don’t see much hope for him.” 

 

Technically, saying he fixes what’s broken and he’ll be a top 10 deep passer next year, he was saying his long ball was lacking last year. It’s an acknowledgement of what’s been subpar. 

 

 

.

On one hand, of course Palmer is going to say good things about Allen if he can.  On the other hand, Palmer has a strong reputation and there is presumably a healthy demand for his services as a personal throwing coach.  If he didn't honestly believe in Allen's upside, he probably could move on to other QBs who did have upside and further enhance his reputation.

[Nanker]

42 minutes ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

I think you're getting Carson and Jordan mixed up. No way Jordan has a 60 million dollar net worth.

Well, he's certainly mixed up... in the head.

[Sherlock Holmes]

14 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Or a picture, for those of us who were expecting one from the way the title was phrased?

[folz]

9 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Did you not listen to the interview???  Let me summarize for you: deep ball definitely an area of work; footwork and some bad habits re-emerge from a long season and people falling around your feet.  Needs to improve on   throwing them open versus leading them on the intermediate and deep throws, he summed it up as non-verbal “put a pin on a map” communication with his WRs.

 

That was the part that I found most interesting, in regards to fixing Josh's deep ball problems this year. he uses the analogy (as Aldo said) of dropping a pin in Google maps. You want to tell your receiver where to go. What he tries to get guys away from is throwing it out in front of the receiver or leading the receiver. He says you, as the QB, are the one who is looking downfield. The receiver is running full speed looking back at the QB. So, the QB is the one who sees the field clearly, so he should be the one to tell the receiver where to go (not the reverse). Find the open area of the field (which maybe the receiver himself can't see) and then drop a pin there and tell the receiver meet me right here (at the pin). Tell the receiver where to go and let him adjust his route to where you are throwing the ball, rather than letting what the receiver is doing determine where you throw it. And he says that is more of a psychological issue than a mechanics issue. So, "drop a pin" is the phrase for Josh to remind himself to do just that.

 

I found that very interesting and as others said, he thinks Josh will improve to a top-10 deep ball passer this year just because whenever Josh focuses on fixing something, he gets better at it.

[Shaw66]

15 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Palmer said he believes Allen will be a top ten deep ball thrower next year because his pattern has been when he sees a problem he corrects it. 
 

Said Beane and McD are the right guys for Allen. 
 

Mentioned that Allen wants to be a Bill his entire career and he wants to be great. He’s been working his tail off since he got there and Allen and Buffalo are one of the all time great fits. 
 

Good stuff. I recommend listening to it. 

I think the first point is the most important point to know about Beane, McDermott and Allen.  

 

McBeane have been saying since they arrived here that competitiveness, desire to learn, desire to improve, team attitude are what they're looking for in players.  Without that, they're not interested.   They also told us that when Allen had his second interview, they saw all of that in him, and that's when the love affair began.   Allen believes in those things and wanted, whether he was completely aware of it or not, to be in an environment that supported, encouraged and drove that kind of attitude.  Allen has what McBeane were looking for, and McBeane have what Allen was looking for.   

 

Allen is going to get better and better.   He has the brains, the drive, the work ethic, as well as the athleticism.   He came out of a tiny high school program and hadn't grown into his full size, so he was overlooked by the colleges.   He could have quit but didn't.   He pulled himself up so that at least Wyoming recognized his potential, and then the pros saw it.  He was clearly the best QB coming out of college in pure physical terms - biggest, fastest, best arm, but the Jets and Browns didn't value his intangibles the way the Bills did. McBeane talked about the intangibles from day one.  He flashed great talent in year one, and he made obvious and significant progress in year two.  

 

What Palmer said isn't a surprised, but it reaffirms what we've been seeing and hearing about Allen for two years.  He will get better because (1) he has all the physical skills to better, (2) he has the brains to be better, (3) he is personally dedicated to get better and (4) he's playing for a coach whose entire system is premised on helping everyone get better.  

 

I think the point that Hapless raised, about how the little injuries pile up over the season, is interesting.   I think for young players like Allen, the pressure piles up, too.  I do think that Allen choked at times down the stretch, that he was quite ready to handle the big moments.   Not every game, not every play.   For example, one of my clearest memories of the Houston game was the look on Allen's face on the sideline in the fourth quarter.  He red=faced and a bit hyper.   He looked like he wasn't quite keeping his emotions under control, notwithstanding that he'd had two years of coaches telling him to take it one play at a time, stay in the moment, etc.   That's easier to do in September and October than December and January, simply because the pressure has built up, the body is a little fatigued from the long season, the brain is fatigued, the speed of the game has inched up.  

 

The thing about McDermott's system is that it's designed to identify every problem, including a problem like being able to maintain and even improve the quality of play as the season wears on, to get each person to focus on that issue and develop the ability to deliver high quality play when it's needed most.   I would be amazed if McDermott hasn't already identified that issue for Daboll and Allen, and McDermott's system requires Daboll and Allen to fix it. 

 

I think the sky is the limit for Allen.   I think around year five people are going to realize they are watching the emergence of one of the greats. 

 

And I think that Allen is smart enough to see it.  He sees and appreciates how supportive Buffalo is of the team.   He sees how McDermott's system will help him achieve everything he could dream of as a pro athlete.   He sees how McBeans's approach will surround him with players who have the same attitude and commitment.  

 

And, as I've said before, I believe he sees that he's going to be a very rich man, and I believe he recognizes that the environment he's found in Buffalo is so important and so good that he doesn't need to get every last dollar out of the Bills when contract time comes.   He sees that leaving $3-$5 million a year on the table will make effectively no difference to his long-term financial well-being, while giving the Bills an extra $3-$5 million to add another piece to the puzzle.  Whether we will see or know that he actually gave a discount, I don't know.  But given the nature of the situation, given that the Bills clearly know what they have and Allen knows what he has, they are not going to have trouble getting together on a contract.   Allen and the Bills are not going to be Dak Prescott and the Cowboys.   Allen will be better than Prescott, the Bills have a settled coaching situation, and the Bills have a rational GM in Beane instead of Jerry Jones.  Dak understandably may want top dollar, because it isn't clear where his football future is going.  Josh can see his football future in Buffalo very clearly, and that's worth a lot to him.  

 

 

[BarleyNY]

15 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Thanks for summarizing it.  But isn’t he Allen’s qb coach that works with him in the offseason.  I mean what else is he supposed to say?

 

i think it would be interesting to hear his criticisms of Allen and things he needs to improve on.

Yup, a rah rah interview from his paid off-season coach should be taken with a big grain of salt.  Absolutely.  But there’s an important piece of information hidden in that interview - Allen has been working on his deep ball.  That’s a very, very good thing IMO.  Hitting those throws would be a game changer for him and the Bills’ offense.

[C.Biscuit97]

9 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Did you not listen to the interview???  Let me summarize for you: deep ball definitely an area of work; footwork and some bad habits re-emerge from a long season and people falling around your feet.  Needs to improve on   throwing them open versus leading them on the intermediate and deep throws, he summed it up as non-verbal “put a pin on a map” communication with his WRs.

I didn’t and just read the posted summary.  Thanks for the additional information.  
 

I would love to hear from a DC who gameplanned against Allen.  I’m a big fan of learning from your weaknesses.  

Just now, BarleyNY said:

Yup, a rah rah interview from his paid off-season coach should be taken with a big grain of salt.  Absolutely.  But there’s an important piece of information hidden in that interview - Allen has been working on his deep ball.  That’s a very, very good thing IMO.  Hitting those throws would be a game changer for him and the Bills’ offense.

Agreed.  It’s just weird that the deep ball was his best attribute and then it fell off this year with more speed on the field.  
 

im a big fan of taking a lot of deep shots a game because with this soft league now that hates defense, there’s a good shot to get a PI and worst case scenario, if intercepted, it’s like a punt.

[BarleyNY]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I didn’t and just read the posted summary.  Thanks for the additional information.  
 

I would love to hear from a DC who gameplanned against Allen.  I’m a big fan of learning from your weaknesses.  

Agreed.  It’s just weird that the deep ball was his best attribute and then it fell off this year with more speed on the field.  
 

im a big fan of taking a lot of deep shots a game because with this soft league now that hates defense, there’s a good shot to get a PI and worst case scenario, if intercepted, it’s like a punt.

Allen has played very well against zone coverages, but relatively poorly against man.  It’s how you play a QB who is not accurate.  Cam Newton, who was Allen’s comp coming out of college, sees more man coverage than any other NFL QB.  I’d expect that to soon be true of Allen.  In fact, I was surprised he didn’t see more of it last season.  So being able to hit an intermediate or deep ball to a receiver on the fly against C0 or C1 is crucial for his success. 

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, folz said:

 

That was the part that I found most interesting, in regards to fixing Josh's deep ball problems this year. he uses the analogy (as Aldo said) of dropping a pin in Google maps. You want to tell your receiver where to go. What he tries to get guys away from is throwing it out in front of the receiver or leading the receiver. He says you, as the QB, are the one who is looking downfield. The receiver is running full speed looking back at the QB. So, the QB is the one who sees the field clearly, so he should be the one to tell the receiver where to go (not the reverse). Find the open area of the field (which maybe the receiver himself can't see) and then drop a pin there and tell the receiver meet me right here (at the pin). Tell the receiver where to go and let him adjust his route to where you are throwing the ball, rather than letting what the receiver is doing determine where you throw it. And he says that is more of a psychological issue than a mechanics issue. So, "drop a pin" is the phrase for Josh to remind himself to do just that.

 

I found that very interesting and as others said, he thinks Josh will improve to a top-10 deep ball passer this year just because whenever Josh focuses on fixing something, he gets better at it.

I think people very much overstate this notion of throwing the receiver open and YAC, but it may be that I just misunderstood the concept.  This explanation is excellent.   

 

In a way, football the way McDermott teaches it is all about being able to acquire and process information to guide your choices.   That's what McDermott encourages all the time, even in the locker room.  It's always about "what do I know and how does that help me do my job?"  

 

When they come to the line of scrimmage, both the QB and the receiver are reading the pre-snap coverage and getting clear in their heads what their job is.   Allen may change the play at the line based on what he sees.  The receiver will readjust his thinking if Allen has changed the play.   Then, post-snap, they're both still reading the information as they see the defense react and they understand what their job actually is.  

 

And that's where your point, I guess Palmer's point, kicks in.   The very last bit of information that comes available is where the opening is on the field, where the relatively safe space is, where the place is where the probability of a completion is highest.   Sometimes the receiver can see it, but more often it's the QB who can see it.  By making the throw to that space, the QB transmits the last piece of information to the receiver - the receiver looks back, sees where the ball is going (usually his defender doesn't see it as early in the play), and the receiver adjusts his route.   

 

That's why experience and repetitions between QB and receivers are so important.  The receiver has to learn to be open to that last bit of information, has to trust it, and has to understand that although he have thought he knew what his route was supposed to be, he's being told by the quarterback how the play is changing as the positioning of the defense unfolds.   I think a lot receivers tendency is to go where THEY think the play is, and they have to learn to have a different habit. 

 

Allen should be better at that in 2020, and Brown and Beasley will be better at it too.   

 

Thanks for the post. 

[Shaw66]

4 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Allen has played very well against zone coverages, but relatively poorly against man.  It’s how you play a QB who is not accurate.  Cam Newton, who was Allen’s comp coming out of college, sees more man coverage than any other NFL QB.  I’d expect that to soon be true of Allen.  In fact, I was surprised he didn’t see more of it last season.  So being able to hit an intermediate or deep ball to a receiver on the fly against C0 or C1 is crucial for his success. 

It's complicated.   One thing the commentators on TV are good at, and I generally don't think they're good at much, is the point they make about defenders in man turn their backs to the offensive backfield and defenders in zone are looking into the backfield.    In 2018, Allen really hurt people running out of the pocket against man-to-man - he had some enormous wide-open spaces to run to, so it isn't surprising that in 2019 he saw more zone and his running effectiveness declined some.  Essentially, Allen's running ability forces teams into more zone than they might want to play against him.  

[nucci]

15 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Good synopsis @whorlnut. Aside from reiterating that everyone should give a listen, Palmer followed up Josh’s love of Buffalo saying “he wants to win the Super Bowl next year”. 

I think every team and player wants to win the Superbowl next year

[BillsFan2313]

1 hour ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

I think you're getting Carson and Jordan mixed up. No way Jordan has a 60 million dollar net worth.

 

Yep.. Carson's net worth is 60 million, Jordan's is 2 million.