DCbillsfan Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 49 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I think this is what it comes down to. Is Dawkins worth $15M/year? In my opinion, not right now. I think he's slightly above average and certainly not in the top 10 in league LTs. He's been improving, but still whiffs and gets beat badly; at the least, he wasn't the worst problem on the line. So until someone better comes along, Dawkins will get paid and be a bit overpaid. This. Plus the Bills don't have much depth at Tackle. If Dawkins were to leave, the Bills would have a huge hole to fill as far as experience and talent.
John from Riverside Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 4 hours ago, NewEra said: Eh. I’ve maintained no, but I also haven’t broken down any of his film this year. I think we’re going to resign him because he’s been playing his cards right/seems like a great guy. Just seems to me he gets beat on plays we have to have Yeah Era I think we should break down the film....I am seeing something different. (respect your opinion on this though)
Malazan Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Yes. I'd actually say that $15 is a bargain given the rising salaries in the NFL and the LT position compared against the quality of his play.
NewEra Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 41 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Yeah Era I think we should break down the film....I am seeing something different. (respect your opinion on this though) You shouldn’t lol....I haven’t watched film. Prior to the season, having watched previous film, that was my position. Many here say that he’s improved and is worth the money, they’re probably right. Based on my weekly game watching, he seemed like just another decent LT. I guess you pay decent LT 15 mill a year? I think I’d rather spend 15 mill on a true difference maker and draft a LT in rd 2
John from Riverside Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, NewEra said: You shouldn’t lol....I haven’t watched film. Prior to the season, having watched previous film, that was my position. Many here say that he’s improved and is worth the money, they’re probably right. Based on my weekly game watching, he seemed like just another decent LT. I guess you pay decent LT 15 mill a year? I think I’d rather spend 15 mill on a true difference maker and draft a LT in rd 2 I think one of the things is he came into camp in better shape this year also I am sure having Spain next to him didnt hurt
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Yes. LTs get paid a lot of money, it’s just reality. ....GOOD and RISING LT's.....he qualifies IMO......
TheyCallMeAndy Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Id say yes. Good player but not clutch at all. I remember in the NE and Houston playoff game the last offensive snaps he tripped while getting into his stance basically letting his man go free at Allen. Edited February 25, 2020 by TheyCallMeAndy Typo
Utah John Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 Yes, get him signed for 5 years at a fair price for a pretty good LT. That doesn't hurt the Bills too much if they decide to upgrade eventually. Dawkins will always have trade value if it comes to that, and a solid, non-exorbitant contract would increase his trade value.
NewEra Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 22 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I think one of the things is he came into camp in better shape this year also I am sure having Spain next to him didnt hurt That’s one of the things I’m scared about. I thought he was pretty bad next to Ducasse. I’ve never played OL so I dunno what it’s like playing next to a bum, but I’m sure that it affected him.
John from Riverside Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, NewEra said: That’s one of the things I’m scared about. I thought he was pretty bad next to Ducasse. I’ve never played OL so I dunno what it’s like playing next to a bum, but I’m sure that it affected him. I would not worry about that.....its going to be either Spain or Ford both of which light years better then Decausse in my opinion
NewEra Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: I would not worry about that.....its going to be either Spain or Ford both of which light years better then Decausse in my opinion Yeah, I just hope he continues to improve. I just don’t see 15 mill a year.
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 25, 2020 Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I honestly don't think he's a top LT. Not even top 10 rn He takes good amount of penalties and gets beat more than you want. I think he's good , not great THIS. I was reading the first few comments and was like, "Doesn't anyone remember the crucial pressures he gave up in situations where we needed blocking the most?" I love what he brings to the team chemistry wise, but like Jordan Phillips he's just not worth a big deal. Edited February 25, 2020 by EasternOHBillsFan
SoTier Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 Dawkins isn't the best LT in the NFL but he's better than a lot of them, and a team needs at least adequate play at OT. The market rate is what it is, and the Bills don't have anybody else as good as he is, so pay him. You can't build a real Super Bowl contender with a roster featuring a handful of top players backed up by never-weres and never-will-bes.
GunnerBill Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I honestly don't think he's a top LT. Not even top 10 rn He takes good amount of penalties and gets beat more than you want. I think he's good , not great I don't think he is top 10 either. I am not sure he will ever be solidly top 10 but I also don't think he will ever be worse than about 18th best. That gives you the platform you need. I think he had his most consistent run down the stretch. I am paying him. If halfway through his contract you end up in position to draft a top end LT then you do it and slide Dawkins into guard where I still maintain he'd be an all-pro. But left tackles better than Dawkins do not hit the FA market often if at all. So if you are going to let him walk you have to go back to the draft and find an upgrade. The Bills will pay him and it will be top 5 left tackle money. But two years after that he will be in the 8th-12th range money wise which is about right (given that there is always bound to be a guy or two in that top dozen who is still playing on a rookie deal).
NoSaint Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: I think this is what it comes down to. Is Dawkins worth $15M/year? In my opinion, not right now. I think he's slightly above average and certainly not in the top 10 in league LTs. He's been improving, but still whiffs and gets beat badly; at the least, he wasn't the worst problem on the line. So until someone better comes along, Dawkins will get paid and be a bit overpaid. Who do you think the 10-15th LT are and do you think they don’t sometimes whiff?
Buffalo716 Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I don't think he is top 10 either. I am not sure he will ever be solidly top 10 but I also don't think he will ever be worse than about 18th best. That gives you the platform you need. I think he had his most consistent run down the stretch. I am paying him. If halfway through his contract you end up in position to draft a top end LT then you do it and slide Dawkins into guard where I still maintain he'd be an all-pro. But left tackles better than Dawkins do not hit the FA market often if at all. So if you are going to let him walk you have to go back to the draft and find an upgrade. The Bills will pay him and it will be top 5 left tackle money. But two years after that he will be in the 8th-12th range money wise which is about right (given that there is always bound to be a guy or two in that top dozen who is still playing on a rookie deal). Everybody always tosses the word all pro around when kicking tackles inside . Oh he'd be an all pro I don't think he is on a Zach Martin , Quentin Nelson level at all. even at guard. All Pro is best 1-2 in the world Edited February 26, 2020 by Buffalo716
GunnerBill Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, GoBills808 said: I think he’s near the top 10. I can’t think of 10 guys I’d rather have than Dawkins. That is a slightly different question because some of the guys I would still say are "better" are at the tail end of their career and might join the legendary Andrew Whitworth in the retirement line - Jason Peters, Anthony Costanzo and Joe Staley spring to mind. Of the remainder I'd take before Dawkins..... Tyron Smith, Ronnie Stanley, David Bhaktiari, Jake Matthews, Terron Armstead, Taylor Lewan are all still under 30 and clearly better. I think Dawkins is in that next group with the likes of Laremy Tunsil, Eric Fisher and Taylor Decker. That is another level again ahead of the Grant Bolles, Riley Reiffs and DJ Humphries of the world - but Humphries just signed a 3 year, $45m extension which does tell you the market the Bills will have to be in with Dion. There is no excuse not to pay him. Refusing to pay a guy who is reliable and solid at left tackle because he isn't elite makes no sense to me. If an elite guy falls in your lap in a year or two you just slide Dion inside. There is a bunch of teams who don't even have a guy in that DJ Humphries group and if the Bills move on from Dion without good cause that is where they well could end up. 18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Everybody always tosses the word all pro around when kicking tackles inside . Oh he'd be an all pro I don't think he is on a Zach Martin , Quentin Nelson level at all. even at guard. All Pro is best 1-2 in the world I think Dion would be a top 5 guard. Not Zach Martin or Quentin Nelson but I do think he could be Marshal Yanda and he made a couple of all pro lists in his career. And as I said to you in another thread.... I don't subscribe to the "kick any old tackle inside and they will be good." I think that logic is flawed. I just think Dion has the skillset to be dominant inside. Always have done. And there were a couple of series his rookie year when Cordy Glenn was in the lineup and Richie came out hobbled where Dion slid into that guard spot and absolutely blew people up. Small sample size but I believe he could be that inside. Edited February 26, 2020 by GunnerBill
Buffalo716 Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: That is a slightly different question because some of the guys I would still say are "better" are at the tail end of their career and might join the legendary Andrew Whitworth in the retirement line - Jason Peters, Anthony Costanzo and Joe Staley spring to mind. Of the remainder I'd take before Dawkins..... Tyron Smith, Ronnie Stanley, David Bhaktiari, Jake Matthews, Terron Armstead, Taylor Lewan are all still under 30 and clearly better. I think Dawkins is in that next group with the likes of Laremy Tunsil, Eric Fisher and Taylor Decker. That is another level again ahead of the Grant Bolles, Riley Reiffs and DJ Humphries of the world - but Humphries just signed a 3 year, $45m extension which does tell you the market the Bills will have to be in with Dion. There is no excuse not to pay him. Refusing to pay a guy who is reliable and solid at left tackle because he isn't elite makes no sense to me. If an elite guy falls in your lap in a year or two you just slide Dion inside. There is a bunch of teams who don't even have a guy in that DJ Humphries group and if the Bills move on from Dion without good cause that is where they well could end up. I think Dion would be a top 5 guard. Not Zach Martin or Quentin Nelson but I do think he could be Marshal Yanda and he made a couple of all pro lists in his career. Yes he has and yanda is fantastic. A real hard worker who has improved a bunch over the years Coming out Dawkins was definitely a better prospect but Yandas development... Key word... They let him develop .. was rapid Dawkins could be that type of guy if he put in lots of work. Top 10 G with some potential for accolades
GunnerBill Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: Yes he has and yanda is fantastic. A real hard worker who has improved a bunch over the years Coming out Dawkins was definitely a better prospect but Yandas development... Key word... They let him develop .. was rapid Dawkins could be that type of guy if he put in lots of work. Top 10 G with some potential for accolades Yanda has been better than top 10 and I think Dawkins would be too. But for now it is academic because unless something strange happens he is staying at tackle for the foreseeable.
Happy Posted February 26, 2020 Posted February 26, 2020 26 minutes ago, NoSaint said: Who do you think the 10-15th LT are and do you think they don’t sometimes whiff? are they paid $15M/year? Probably not. I can't go through all of them, but I'll give a few examples of better LTs - Tyron Smith of Dallas and Eric Fisher. Smith is at $13.5M/year and Fisher is at $14.5M/year. I would put both ahead of Dawkins, though they make in the ball park to slightly less than what Dawkins would make at $15M. Everyone whiffs, just Dawkins misses blocks and commits penalties at some inopportune times.
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