How Much is To Much ? Will the NFL Ever Put a Limit on Contracts ?

[BigBillsFan]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The opposite is true.  It is the reason the NFL has so many fans.  It is the engine driving revenue growth.

 

Teams will always have fans.  The owners want more fans of the league itself, especially with legalized gambling looming.

 

There is zero evidence of this. Look at baseball. Look at the Rams when they were trying to sell tickets at $6 and no one comes. Their stadium has a ton of empty seats.

 

While it may have a short term gain watching it on TV/internet, long-term it will kill it.

Look at the stadiums of the new teams: Chargers, Rams, even the famous Raiders. Their stadiums are fairly empty.

 

You can't synthesize fan loyalty.

 

Here I'll ask others a question and let's see who is right:

If the Bills moved to a different city, let's say San Antonio and went by the San Antonio Bulls would you watch them still?

 

I'll vote no

 

 

[RochesterRob]

On 2/21/2020 at 10:11 AM, Shaw66 said:

If they cap the salaries, it just means the owners get richer.   

 

The players are workers in an industry that just happens to generate huge amounts of money.   The players, being the people who make the league successful, have demanded and gotten a share of the profits.   When the profits go up, the players' share, in terms of dollars, goes up.  

 

How would you like it if someone told you that you were making enough and no longer could get a raise?   Why should the players be any different?

 

Now, maybe the players' association might want to revise the contract to limit in some way the difference between the lowest paid and the highest paid players, which would indirectly cap the QB salaries.   It would be something like no player on a team can make less than 1/20 of the highest paid player.   That would mean that if the QB is making $20 million, the lowest paid guy would make $1 million.   I suppose they could do something like that.   But if I'm the QB, I'm asking the players' association what they're doing, because they're supposed to be representing me, and they're taking money from me.   

 

I don't worry about that stuff.  I just watch the games.  

Well, they ARE struggling.   Let's start a GoFundMe page for the players.  

  A lot of people have been told that they make enough money and do not get raises.  Go out into the various towns of WNY and ask people who work ordinary jobs what they get paid.  A lot of them will tell you that they have not received a raise in very long time and I would bet that back 20 years ago they were getting considerably above minimum wage.  The only problem is minimum wage is approaching or has approached what they were making back around the year 2000.

[Mr. WEO]

Zero evidence of....what?  That the NFL is the most popular league in the country?  That revenue and team valuations have not exploded over the past 20 years?  That fantasy football has not been a major, if not THE major driving force behind all of this?  These are undisputed truths (yourself excluded).

 

Baseball??

 

Yeah, stadiums have empty seats...so what?  That has been true for the "Buffalo Bills" for years.  Every team has no shows.  Seasons holders don't go to every game and so they get what they can on the secondary market.

 

And no, few Bills fans would follow the San Antonio Bulls, but millions of Texans would--that would literally be "synthesizing fan loyalty"---and it's about to happen in Las Vegas as well.

 

Not one of your statements supports your position.  Each is a non sequitur.  Fantasy has been around for a long time, IT'S popularity has driven the popularity of the NFL.  Show me anything that states otherwise.

 

 

[BigBillsFan]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

And no, few Bills fans would follow the San Antonio Bulls, but millions of Texans would--that would literally be "synthesizing fan loyalty"---and it's about to happen in Las Vegas as well.

 

Not one of your statements supports your position.  Each is a non sequitur.  Fantasy has been around for a long time, IT'S popularity has driven the popularity of the NFL.  Show me anything that states otherwise.

 

 

 

My point is they people won't just follow the San Antonio Bulls. Just like they aren't just following the Rams or Chargers. It's why teams in L.A struggled to work.

 

Yes short-term gains, I admitted that. Long-term? Not a chance.

 

Go look at the stadiums even when the Rams had a good year. LA isn't going to watch them.

 

If LA or Las Vegas has noticeably empty seats every home game this year my point is proven. If they are full you're point is proven. Fair enough?

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

My point is they people won't just follow the San Antonio Bulls. Just like they aren't just following the Rams or Chargers. It's why teams in L.A struggled to work.

 

Yes short-term gains, I admitted that. Long-term? Not a chance.

 

Go look at the stadiums even when the Rams had a good year. LA isn't going to watch them.

 

If LA or Las Vegas has noticeably empty seats every home game this year my point is proven. If they are full you're point is proven. Fair enough?

 

You still don't get it.  The NFL revenue isn't about full stadiums (nor is "fandom").  

 

The Rams revenue jumped from 317 million to over 400 million in the 3 years since they moved back to LA.  New Era has empty seats in December:  are the fans "gone"?  No--they are watching comfortably at home on their 65 inch 4K TV and playing fantasy football at the same time.

 

This isn't even very hard to grasp.  Fantasy football is powering the NFL's popularity.  It will surprise you that fans can play fantasy football....AND root for their favorite team.  Pretty wild huh?

[JoPoy88]

9 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

There is zero evidence of this. Look at baseball. Look at the Rams when they were trying to sell tickets at $6 and no one comes. Their stadium has a ton of empty seats.

 

While it may have a short term gain watching it on TV/internet, long-term it will kill it.

Look at the stadiums of the new teams: Chargers, Rams, even the famous Raiders. Their stadiums are fairly empty.

 

You can't synthesize fan loyalty.

 

Here I'll ask others a question and let's see who is right:

If the Bills moved to a different city, let's say San Antonio and went by the San Antonio Bulls would you watch them still?

 

I'll vote no

 

 

The things you claim as evidence of an erosion of “fandom” aren’t at all. Modern fandom is measured, for better or worse, in overall viewership. Fantasy football drives that. Gigantic broadcast deals and merchandise sales for the NFL reflect that. Your view is antiquated so you choose to ignore these things, but that’s how things exist today. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

[ALF]

The rookie pay scale was the best deal . The salary cap keeps things from getting out of control and keeps parity between the teams.

[Billl]

14 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

My point is they people won't just follow the San Antonio Bulls. Just like they aren't just following the Rams or Chargers. It's why teams in L.A struggled to work.

 

Yes short-term gains, I admitted that. Long-term? Not a chance.

 

Go look at the stadiums even when the Rams had a good year. LA isn't going to watch them.

 

If LA or Las Vegas has noticeably empty seats every home game this year my point is proven. If they are full you're point is proven. Fair enough?

Do you also think that filling out brackets erodes college basketball fandom?

[BigBillsFan]

7 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

The things you claim as evidence of an erosion of “fandom” aren’t at all. Modern fandom is measured, for better or worse, in overall viewership. Fantasy football drives that. Gigantic broadcast deals and merchandise sales for the NFL reflect that. Your view is antiquated so you choose to ignore these things, but that’s how things exist today. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

If ignorance was bliss you'd be raptured. I never said there aren't short term gains.

 

Long-term no one will care.

 

 

 

2019 ratings rebound are on par with 2016.

 

Ratings peaked in 2010 and 2011. Ratings and stats are all against you. Also, have you seen how viewership of the NFL by age demographic is hitting new lows?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...with the current salary cap as well as rookie cap in place, why would the NFLPA via the CBA EVER agree to "enough is enough"?....think for ONE minute pricing the game out of reach for the average fan, once the grass roots stalwart of support, means S&^T today?.....it's not even a valid question....at the same time, I think (FWIW) it is incumbent upon the NFL to take better care of players past who were the foundation of today's success....reading about stuff like Conrad Dobler being addicted to pain killers and trying to survive on a $1,000+ or - pension is sick....I don't even know who pays his health care, but that should also be a consideration......decisions like these should come from the NFL Exec Board with ZERO input from today's players......damn well rest assured they would NOT be in favor of it....."it's ME ...screw THEM".....

Edited February 23, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[BigBillsFan]

Young people are already tuning out the NFL:

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2019/7/29/20746216/fortnite-world-cup-nfl-age-ratings-viewership-demographics

[T master]

2 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

Young people are already tuning out the NFL:

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2019/7/29/20746216/fortnite-world-cup-nfl-age-ratings-viewership-demographics

 

What in gods name is fort night ???  ? does it have something to do with building a fort in the living room like we did when we were kids & the best fort wins ??

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

On 2/21/2020 at 11:45 AM, CLTbills said:

While I don't exactly disagree with you, that's a bit of a misleading statement. The owners don't individually bring in "billions." One report I read used the Green Bay Packers as an example. In 2018, the NFL earned $8.1 Billion in national revenue, meaning each team got about $255 million of that. Then, you get your local revenue (in this case, for the Packers, it was $196 million) which brought their total revenue, not profit, to $455 million. Of that, $213 million went to players, another $208 million to "stadium upkeep, marketing, and team and administrative costs." This left them with an operating income of $38.5 million. A far cry from the "billions" that you claim they bring in. Sure, other teams may bring in more, and maybe the Packers did a big stadium upgrade that year.

 

But the point is, if an owner has invested, like Mr. Pegula, $1.4 BILLION of his own money to buy a team, why shouldn't he want to make a return on that investment? $38.5 million a year is a pretty crappy return for a year on a billion and a half dollar investment, if you ask me. He'd have to own the team for over 36 years at that rate to break even on that investment. And yes, I understand that the value of the team will increase (and already has) over time, but that's not cash in his pocket until he sells the team. I don't blame the owners, if they're only making that much, for wanting to try to retain a bit more. That'd be like you or me investing $14,000 in the stock market and only getting a return of $385 for the year. 

Nice post.  Here’s the deal, with few exceptions, it’s not “owners” v “players”, it’s haves and haves less.  Patrick Mahommes likely cares less about the overall compensation to players as a whole than he does what he makes.  Jerry Jones holds the same philosophy as it relates to Terry and Kim Pegula or Patrick Mahommes, and I’m sure Travis Kelce doesn’t spend much time worrying about how much Dawson Knox will make in future contracts. 
 

Every party necessarily looks out for themselves.  They’ll work it out—but let’s focus on the real problem:  those mysterious black suited Spider-Man-refs who&$@@ over the Bills of Buffalo! 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

What happens when these QB’s start making 60 mil a year. The team around them will be absolutely horrid. It will get to the point where u will be at a disadvantage for having a top 10 QB. 

[JoPoy88]

12 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

Young people are already tuning out the NFL:

https://www.turfshowtimes.com/2019/7/29/20746216/fortnite-world-cup-nfl-age-ratings-viewership-demographics

whatever man. You’re making an argument (backing it up with attendance figures from two teams that scorned their fanbases and left town, btw) that by its nature cannot be proven or disproven until far in the future. That’s a cowardly argument to make and i trust you will not be here to admit you’re wrong 8 years down the line. Today, you’re wrong. Tomorrow, you’ll be wrong. 8-10 years from now? Maybe you’ll be right. I doubt it. 

10 hours ago, T master said:

 

What in gods name is fort night ???  ? does it have something to do with building a fort in the living room like we did when we were kids & the best fort wins ??

What’s wrong with you? 

[BigBillsFan]

31 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

whatever man. You’re making an argument (backing it up with attendance figures from two teams that scorned their fanbases and left town, btw) that by its nature cannot be proven or disproven until far in the future. That’s a cowardly argument to make and i trust you will not be here to admit you’re wrong 8 years down the line. Today, you’re wrong. Tomorrow, you’ll be wrong. 8-10 years from now? Maybe you’ll be right. I doubt it.

 

So I show ratings and poll data you give proof but I'm the coward? Projection much? Where's your argument? Oh that's right, you just say a bunch of non-sense and pretend I'm solely focusing on 2 teams.

 

Today I'm not wrong. Ratings are down since 2010-2011 peak and have dropped until 2016-2017. They are finally back to 2016 levels in 2019.

 

So I'm right now and I'll be more right later. Football is still mostly watched by white males, trending older on average at 50 yrs old. Why do you think the NFL is pushing the global cities? Because they see a demographic crisis in the US.

 

But go ahead, pretend you're right with no facts, figures, poll or stat data... but I'm the coward hahahahaha

Edited February 24, 2020 by BigBillsFan

[ganesh]

12 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

What happens when these QB’s start making 60 mil a year. The team around them will be absolutely horrid. It will get to the point where u will be at a disadvantage for having a top 10 QB. 

This is the same people send the last time they negotiated a contract.  Drew Brees contract was supposed to kill the Saints and yet they have consistently been in the playoffs.  The key is having to pay 60M to an extremely good QB...A team that pays that kind of money to an average QB like Dalton will always suffer

Edited February 24, 2020 by ganesh

[dave mcbride]

On 2/22/2020 at 2:52 PM, Aussie Joe said:

Bradys wife also makes more money then he does..

 

But if at the end of the day they decide that Josh Allen is worth a second contract, the amount they pay him will be a good problem to have..

Not true. She used to, but in 2018 made $10 million. 

On 2/22/2020 at 10:44 PM, Mr. WEO said:

 

You still don't get it.  The NFL revenue isn't about full stadiums (nor is "fandom").  

 

The Rams revenue jumped from 317 million to over 400 million in the 3 years since they moved back to LA.  New Era has empty seats in December:  are the fans "gone"?  No--they are watching comfortably at home on their 65 inch 4K TV and playing fantasy football at the same time.

 

This isn't even very hard to grasp.  Fantasy football is powering the NFL's popularity.  It will surprise you that fans can play fantasy football....AND root for their favorite team.  Pretty wild huh?

This. I have had a fantasy team for years, and I ALWAYS root against players on my team when they play the Bills in real life. I do not have any sympathies for them because they are on my team; I actively root for them to fail. It's quite easy to do because I care far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, more about the Bills than my fantasy team. 

[row_33]

45 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Not true. She used to, but in 2018 made $10 million. 

This. I have had a fantasy team for years, and I ALWAYS root against players on my team when they play the Bills in real life. I do not have any sympathies for them because they are on my team; I actively root for them to fail. It's quite easy to do because I care far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, more about the Bills than my fantasy team. 

 

even when the Bills were putrid?

 

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

even when the Bills were putrid?

 

Yes, always. I get far more satisfaction out of a Bills victory, even when 4-9, than the victory of a fantasy team.