How Much is To Much ? Will the NFL Ever Put a Limit on Contracts ?

[JoPoy88]

Another incredibly well-thought out thread from the OP. Off-season gold.

[BigBillsFan]

5 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

As a gambler, I can't agree.  This year in the Bills regular season finale I saw a golden opportunity to bet against the Bills because I knew they were resting their key players.  I bet the Jets on the money line & cashed the bet.  Yes, I was rooting against the Bills 2nd stringers, but it didn't effectively reduce my long term love of the team.  

 

I answered what you said you read my final paragraph: "It's working now because you love a team. Watch a kid who's dad loves the Bills and they want to play on the net more and do fantasy. Do you really think with such divided loyalties your son will care as much? They can't, they are privately celebrating every touchdown against their home team without the deep seated love we have for their team."

[Nextmanup]

The ever increasing salaries for superstars are a good and bad thing at the same time.

 

It's great if you are one of the 1, 2 or 3 superstars on every team.

 

But it's going to be really bad news for everyone else.  And I mean everyone else.

 

It is going to get to the point where huge $ is paid to a handful of core superstars on every team and everyone else will be viewed as interchangeable and working for near league minimum.

 

We have something sort of like that now, but it's going to get worse.

 

 

[Tcali]

3 hours ago, T master said:

Every year we here of each teams salary cap going up & each new QB that comes along like Mahomes is expected to set a new record for the amount of money he receives in his new contract when negotiations start & although i believe that if they are willing to pay what ever amount you ask for get while the getting is good, will the owners or the NFL ever decide that enough is enough & put a cap on the biggest amount you can receive in a contract per position to allow the other players to be able to make decent pay ?

 

As it stands right now Matt Ryan holds the largest overall contract when he signed his extension in May of 2018 which was for 5 yrs $150 million but the player that has the highest amount paid per yr (not over all) is Russel Wilson his extension was for 4 yrs $140 million but he gets paid $35 million per yr & they are saying that Mahomes contract could be in the vicinity of some $200 million if he signs a 5 yr extension with a $40 million per yr pay check !!

 

Just saying HOLY S**T that's a lot of cash !! ?

 

The new CBA contract talks are now on going too & they are talking how if it is excepted that just the average joe players can make a extra $90k a years which heck i believe there's probably not on person here that would turn just the increase down let alone adding it to what they already get per year .

 

I know in my little pea brain $40 million a yr would set me or any of us up for a hell of a long time & i can't even fathom how you would have to live or what you would need to live in order to spend that kind of cash, sure i would first take care of family & possibly a couple of dear friends but after that the what ? 

 

How much more can the cash flow continue to grow & just how much is to much ? Will the owners ever put a cap on the spending when it comes to individual salaries per position to keep the pay for other players relevant, because a team is made up of all the players & not just 1 or 2 extremely high priced very talented players !! 

 

 

the value of QBs will keep going up since colleges dont train these kids how to play the position. there are precious few QBs who have mastered the art and having a flawed QB

pretty much kills a franchise. $20 billion sport.

[st pete gogolak]

How much is too much?   Should the NFL put a limit on the amount of an owner's profits?

[Saxum]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, they ARE struggling.   Let's start a GoFundMe page for the players.  

No their agents are, they very small percentage compared to players percentage. Let's start a GoFundMe page for them.

[Buffalo Junction]

52 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Cousins has a fully guaranteed contract in Minn, if I'm understanding what you mean.

Yup. Cousins is an interesting case coming off of those franchise tags. He didn’t take less total cash per year at the time of signing though. Cousins set the market per year, but with a three year duration. I was eluding to how the NFL doesn’t do this, and players aren’t willing to take less total money in favor of fully guaranteed deals at say 85% of the full value. It seems like it’d make sense for some of these other QBs. Particularly guys who rely on their legs a lot or guys that aren’t top tier. 

[Mr. WEO]

I don't understand what the OP's issue is.  The CBA spells out each time exactly how the money is to be split and the annual revenue determines what the cap will be for every team each year.  How GMs spend that cap money is up to them.  The market determines player price.

 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, CLTbills said:

 

 

But the point is, if an owner has invested, like Mr. Pegula, $1.4 BILLION of his own money to buy a team, why shouldn't he want to make a return on that investment? $38.5 million a year is a pretty crappy return for a year on a billion and a half dollar investment, if you ask me. He'd have to own the team for over 36 years at that rate to break even on that investment. And yes, I understand that the value of the team will increase (and already has) over time, but that's not cash in his pocket until he sells the team. I don't blame the owners, if they're only making that much, for wanting to try to retain a bit more. That'd be like you or me investing $14,000 in the stock market and only getting a return of $385 for the year. 

 

Owning a pro sports team is not like owning General motors.  It's like owning stock in a very valuable company.

 

Now imagine if owning that one share of stock paid for you to fly all over the country and flaunt your ownership of team in the most popular league in the land, partying in luxury suites all expenses paid...and delivering an annual dividend.  AND it's a stock that will never lose value so you can keep it as long as you want as it's worth increases every year 5-10% or more.  You are guaranteed a massive return whenever you don't want to own it anymore.

 

And, even for a billionaire, an extra 38 million IS, literally, "cash in your pocket.".

[buffalover4life]

Players arguably get paid less than what they deserve because the salary cap restricts free market competition... also a players first 4-5 years are locked in( i think the rookie pay scale was a great move for the league)..  

 

That said, the day the NFL caps players ability to earn based on some number they pull out of thin air is the day the league and its pool of talent dies.

 

We live in America where people are free to make as much as they godt damnt please, especially if you're one of the 15 best in the world at what you do.

Just because you are jealous of their salary does not mean they should not get paid what the market would demand.

 

also say they get a contract that pays 30 million a year... 15 million goes to taxes because they are in an insane tax bracket, 3 million to agent, now you're at 12 million take home... still a ton of money but these guys have 10-12 years and generally only get one massive contract that gets voided before its all said and done... again great money but these guys have done one thing their whole life and have risked it all for a chance to play in this league. Let them earn as much as they possibly can

 

 

3 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

I think it is the opposite.  If the union wanted a $35 million max for a player, that means more for the other players. A cap impacts 32 players negatively, benefits 1650 players.

 

I think a great idea for the new CBA would be to allow teams to remove 1 players cap figure from their books, so for most teams they would be able to remove the cap hit of their QB, allowing the other players to get their cut with out a ridiculous QB cap hit.  

[CheshireCT]

The OPs point is really about balance of cash between the players, rather than how much the owners have to pay. If one player gets an insane contract, that means there is left for the rest of the players on the team.

 

I would say when it comes to player salaries, the biggest shame seems to be that some of the hardest working players who come in without the high draft pedigree, and end up playing exceptionally well, often never get their fair value (for example former Bills RB Fred Jackson). The UDFA can play just as well as a 1st rounder and he keeps playing for a low salary for years trying to prove his worth, then by the time he proves it, he’s over the hill and never gets the deal he should have.

[Chaos]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.   

 

The point is, there are a lot of problems that get created when you start trying to control how much money someone can make, in any environment.   The NFL does what the NBA first did - agree with the players what percentage of the revenue, as they choose to define it, will go to the players.   That's what the salary cap does.   How the teams choose to divide it up among their players is there business.   Capping salaries for a position, or capping the highest possible salary, is really a question for the players' union.   Do they want to agree among themselves to reduce the highest comps to increase the lowest?   

 

I'm with you.   If I'm on any other team, I WANT the Chiefs to pay Mahomes a ton of money, so they'll have less for other teams.   On the other hand, capping Mahomes at $20 million max may not be a good thing for the Chiefs long-term, because if Mahomes can make $20 million and no more, wherever he plays, he'll insist on a series of one-year deals, so he can leave KC for someplace else as soon as he sees a coach or a roster that his likes better.   

 

I really think how much these guys get paid is just a lot of noise that distracts people from football.   Millions of people get paid more than they're worth, and millions or tens of millions more get paid less than they're worth.   That's the way of the world.  

 

 

The bolded part is why the NBA has nothing similar to the parity concept.  Introducing that to the NFL would like ruin the league forever for teams like the Bills.

[Shaw66]

27 minutes ago, Chaos said:

The bolded part is why the NBA has nothing similar to the parity concept.  Introducing that to the NFL would like ruin the league forever for teams like the Bills.

Right.

 

Which is why it will stay the way it is. 

 

I said a few weeks ago, and I still believe it will happen, that Allen will give a hometown discount when he gets extended.   I think McBeane will be selling and Allen will buy the concept that if he takes $3-4-5 million less per year, the team will be better.   I know it sounds stupid to give up that kind of money but really, what's the difference between $25 million guaranteed for six years and $29 million?   Either way after taxes, he's got something like $50 million in the bank for his future, and the opportunity for one more contract.   In that dollar range, being on a winner is much more important than an extra few million in the bank.   I think Allen will buy that idea, just like Brady did.   

[billspro]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

If they cap the salaries, it just means the owners get richer.   

 

The players are workers in an industry that just happens to generate huge amounts of money.   The players, being the people who make the league successful, have demanded and gotten a share of the profits.   When the profits go up, the players' share, in terms of dollars, goes up.  

 

How would you like it if someone told you that you were making enough and no longer could get a raise?   Why should the players be any different?

 

Now, maybe the players' association might want to revise the contract to limit in some way the difference between the lowest paid and the highest paid players, which would indirectly cap the QB salaries.   It would be something like no player on a team can make less than 1/20 of the highest paid player.   That would mean that if the QB is making $20 million, the lowest paid guy would make $1 million.   I suppose they could do something like that.   But if I'm the QB, I'm asking the players' association what they're doing, because they're supposed to be representing me, and they're taking money from me.   

 

I don't worry about that stuff.  I just watch the games.  

Well, they ARE struggling.   Let's start a GoFundMe page for the players.  

I doubt that, if they cap salaries it just means the money get distributed more amongst the whole team. Then you don’t have a few stars being grossly overpaid while the majority of the team is underpaid. They should absolutely cap it at some point.

57 minutes ago, Chaos said:

The bolded part is why the NBA has nothing similar to the parity concept.  Introducing that to the NFL would like ruin the league forever for teams like the Bills.

That’s a good point. 

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

I answered what you said you read my final paragraph: "It's working now because you love a team. Watch a kid who's dad loves the Bills and they want to play on the net more and do fantasy. Do you really think with such divided loyalties your son will care as much? They can't, they are privately celebrating every touchdown against their home team without the deep seated love we have for their team."

My point is that no matter what your age, rooting against your team on a given down or even a game now and then will not divide your loyalty.  Fans can multitask & still love their team just as much as the blind loyalist who feels the need to root for the team on every single down regardless of any other circumstances.  I don't buy the idea that some kid, who isn't even eligible to play fantasy football, will lose his love of a team by not rooting for the team on every play.   Do you know what the best way to kill a kid's interest in the home team is?  I'll tell you-it's having a losing team for almost every year the kid is growing up.  Fantasy football & betting won't make a kid find a different team than dad's, losing will.  

 

There have been numerous times in my 50 +/- years as a Bills fan that I have rooted against the team for one reason or another and it has not reduced my love of the team one iota.  Examples are: I bet against them in a game I know they are not giving their best effort, like this past season's finale, December games where the game means nothing & the team will benefit with a higher draft choice,  and games where a key player or coaching change will happen with a loss and that change, IMO, will greatly benefit the team in the long run.  The best example would be in 1986 vs Tampa where an incompetent coach's job was on the line if the Bills lost.  They lost & Hank Bullough was replaced by Marv Levy.  I had no problem with the team losing if it meant Bullough, who I thought should have been fired immediately after the 1985 season ended, would get fired.  

[billspro]

1 hour ago, CheshireCT said:

The OPs point is really about balance of cash between the players, rather than how much the owners have to pay. If one player gets an insane contract, that means there is left for the rest of the players on the team.

 

I would say when it comes to player salaries, the biggest shame seems to be that some of the hardest working players who come in without the high draft pedigree, and end up playing exceptionally well, often never get their fair value (for example former Bills RB Fred Jackson). The UDFA can play just as well as a 1st rounder and he keeps playing for a low salary for years trying to prove his worth, then by the time he proves it, he’s over the hill and never gets the deal he should have.

that’s the biggest issue with the current system imo. Jordan Poyer is going through that right now.

[Chaos]

27 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Right.

 

Which is why it will stay the way it is. 

 

I said a few weeks ago, and I still believe it will happen, that Allen will give a hometown discount when he gets extended.   I think McBeane will be selling and Allen will buy the concept that if he takes $3-4-5 million less per year, the team will be better.   I know it sounds stupid to give up that kind of money but really, what's the difference between $25 million guaranteed for six years and $29 million?   Either way after taxes, he's got something like $50 million in the bank for his future, and the opportunity for one more contract.   In that dollar range, being on a winner is much more important than an extra few million in the bank.   I think Allen will buy that idea, just like Brady did.   

Brady's wife earned 50 million per year at her peak.  That probably had some impact on Brady's analysis, which too date remains unique. 

[dayman]

Market will set salaries. Period

[BarleyNY]

5 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

Players will fight tooth and nail against individual contract limits because of the lottery syndrome. Even while most players will never see a 40 million dollar contract, they all want to believe they will.

Players who are at an artificial ceiling would save ownership the difference between that and their market value.  But that saved money does not have to flow to other players.  It could easily just go into an owner’s pocket. Any mechanism that artificially lowers compensation for some players will lower overall compensation for players unless there is another mechanism in place to raise it for others.  The league could cap some players’ salaries if they raised the cap floor to counter thaw impact, for example.  

[Augie]

How much do Tom Hanks or Julia Roberts earn for making a movie? We sure do like our entertainment and are willing to pay for it! 

 

The NFL (both owners and players) have a vested interest in finding the right balance. Pay the QB a ridiculous amount in terms of cap % and your team will stink. It’s still a team game, despite the emphasis on the QB and the passing game. Pay Mahomes 80% of the cap, and KC will sink to the bottom. They will become irrelevant and generate less income. 

 

Markets will generally set themselves. Smart people will generally find the right balance. Does it have to be limited in the CBA somewhere? Maybe, if it’s in the best interest of the game a max QB % or some other means will be needed eventually to protect teams from themselves (and give them an excuse to use with the players). In the meantime, a LOT of people are making a LOT of money, and I don’t begrudge anyone a single cent. Get it while you can!

 

 

 

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Edited February 22, 2020 by Augie