Diggs on the block? Rumor is a 2nd rd pick (year old thread)

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, Mickey said:

 

They have two WR's and chose to keep the other guy. He apparently was not considered to be the No. 1 WR on that team. 

 

 

Never said Theilen didn't have an attitude problem. It is certainly conceivable that they are both jerks. Bottom line, the guys that know Diggs best decided they'd rather keep Theilen.

 

 

You are correct, most teams are bright enough not to waste resources on a FA WR when the draft is chock full of very talented ones, best ever most say. 

 

 

Free agents are gambles, it is not at all unusual for guys to flop with their second teams. Part of MN's poor management of the cap is the money they paid Diggs, no? A second round pick is pretty valuable, not a sure thing but still valuable. And 45 million is a lot more than Ceedee Lamb is going to cost or Aiuk.

 

It is a good cap situation because we haven't gone shopping for high priced glitz or helped other teams fix their cap problems. Lets keep it that way. 

So you think we should keep blue light shopping and hoping we hit on every draft?

 

This defense is champion level RIGHT NOW.......we have to hit on our window

[Mickey]

15 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

So I actually do agree with this

 

We have positioned ourselves so that we can actually compete....we need the final pieces...now is the time.

 

 

There is no reason why we cant bring in a vet WR AND draft a WR in this draft

Our WR core basically has two starting caliber players.....and a bunch of jags.

Give Josh some weapons to work with for christ sake

 

And there is no reason why we can't pass on Diggs and take two WR's in this draft which it turns out, is full of good WR's from top to bottom. And that will be much easier if we aren't giving out draft picks. Don't forget, we might have to replace Lawson and/or Phillips. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Mickey said:

 

And there is no reason why we can't pass on Diggs and take two WR's in this draft which it turns out, is full of good WR's from top to bottom. And that will be much easier if we aren't giving out draft picks. Don't forget, we might have to replace Lawson and/or Phillips. 

I would rather have a ready to go quality WR now and draft a guy.......I want to win now

[njbuff]

34 minutes ago, nucci said:

you think the Bills will draft 2-3 WRs and they will all make the team?  

How is trading a draft pick for a young proven WR mortgaging the future?

 

There is certainly a chance of it. Most of these kids are legit, but, of course, they could all bust as we speak.

47 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Curious, where do people get that Diggs is a problem?  Both him and Theilen (a guy people praise) voiced their dislike of the new offense last year, yet only one who gets flack for it is Diggs.  They went from a pass first team to a run first team this season and not a shock that the 2 top end WR's weren't enamored with it.  

 

I feel like people assume Diggs is a cancer because Minn is considering moving him, but they are grossly overlooking the fact that Minn is in cap hell and has to do something.  And with Cook, having two high cap WR's is more of a luxury than a need.  

 

I mean if there was ever a time for Minn to trade Diggs, this is the year.  You get back a premium pick in first 2 rounds to use on a WR draft that is the best in years and may be the deepest ever to find a potential replacement without the price tag.

 

Bills on the other hand, have plenty of cap room for a top end WR contract and would be better off brining in a sure thing for our young team and QB than roll the dice on a draft prospect that may take a couple seasons or longer to fully develop.  

 

Diggs being available is not an indication he is a problem.  Its an indication their GM is a problem and didn't manage the cap well enough to afford two high end WR's on a team that now has a top end run game where the RB is also a dangerous WR.  Not to mention, a really good vet TE and a very promising TE coming off his rookie season.  

 

Diggs is a luxury they just cant afford.  

 

Well put, if I don't say so myself. ?

2 hours ago, purple haze said:

Are there?   Have you seen any of them play an NFL game or multiple seasons in the NFL?  You are talking projections.  Diggs is not a projection.  He's proven at the NFL level and he's young.

 

I get all this, but I don't have a problem with the Bills rolling with unproven talented WR''s.

 

Look at how well a few of 2019's draft picks at WR worked out immediately for their respective teams.

[Mickey]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

So you think we should keep blue light shopping and hoping we hit on every draft?

 

This defense is champion level RIGHT NOW.......we have to hit on our window

 

Yeah, that is exactly what I said, Diggs or blue lights specials because there is nothing in between. 

 

We are not one WR away from a championship. Not with Phillips and Lawson possibly leaving. Questions still at RT. We need to replace Zoe, Hughes is getting long in the tooth. We need to improve at corner and we don't have a single TE on the team that has proved he can be relied on to catch the ball. Oh and we have to replace Gore as well.  But by all means, go chase a WR that was not even the best WR on his own team and toss the Vikings a high pick.  Its the kind of thing Rex Ryan would have loved.

[DrDawkinstein]

11 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

It is a good cap situation because we haven't gone shopping for high priced glitz or helped other teams fix their cap problems. Lets keep it that way. 

 

That's fine for the first few years of a complete rebuild, but once you have pieces in place (franchise QB on rookie contract, a ton of cap room created by cutting the previous regime's talent, etc), you absolutely look to sign some big talent even at high prices.

 

And to the contrary, Beane threw $11M+/year at a CENTER last year in Free Agency, so he is absolutely willing to spend when it's right.

1 minute ago, Mickey said:

 

Yeah, that is exactly what I said, Diggs or blue lights specials because there is nothing in between. 

 

We are not one WR away from a championship. Not with Phillips and Lawson possibly leaving. Questions still at RT. We need to replace Zoe, Hughes is getting long in the tooth. We need to improve at corner and we don't have a single TE on the team that has proved he can be relied on to catch the ball. Oh and we have to replace Gore as well.  But by all means, go chase a WR that was not even the best WR on his own team and toss the Vikings a high pick.  Its the kind of thing Rex Ryan would have loved.

 

We have $90M in cap, and can sign anyone and EVERYONE we need, along with extensions for our own guys. We bring in Diggs, we still have ~$75M in cap space to work with.

Edited February 19, 2020 by DrDawkinstein

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

 

Something about Diggs rubs me the wrong way.

 

I would rather draft 2/3 WR's and role with them at cost-effective rate than deal with a potential problem.

 

But like I said, wherever the Bills go in terms of Diggs is fine with me.

Diggs is like most athletes; they believe they are the difference, because throughout their life in sports they were.  He complains, usually, when the Vikings are losing games and he's not seeing targets.  It's not like he is AB.   

[Mickey]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

That's fine for the first few years of a complete rebuild, but once you have pieces in place (franchise QB on rookie contract, a ton of cap room created by cutting the previous regime's talent, etc), you absolutely look to sign some big talent even at high prices.

 

And to the contrary, Beane threw $11M+/year at a CENTER last year in Free Agency, so he is absolutely willing to spend when it's right.

 

I agree, there is a time and place for laying down your cash, I just don't think doing it for a WR in a year where the draft has more top talent at WR than we have seen in years makes any sense. Besides, does he strike anyone as being a guy who is just dying to come and play for the Bills? I'd rather see the money go to improving the pass rush or bringing in a real TE.

[colin]

if we get digs and clowney (or some such), and maybe a RT (draft or FA) and add some youth in the draft (including RB2 but i think that's on the easier side) then we are walking out of this offseason better at QB (cuz he's growin up!) at WR 1-3 (cuz diggs is 1, brown is 2, and beez is 3) better at TE (growth), and better at OL and RB than last year, along w an equal or better D.

 

That's just putting a super charger on a well running V8, and will push us forward in a big way.

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

Yeah, that is exactly what I said, Diggs or blue lights specials because there is nothing in between. 

 

We are not one WR away from a championship. Not with Phillips and Lawson possibly leaving. Questions still at RT. We need to replace Zoe, Hughes is getting long in the tooth. We need to improve at corner and we don't have a single TE on the team that has proved he can be relied on to catch the ball. Oh and we have to replace Gore as well.  But by all means, go chase a WR that was not even the best WR on his own team and toss the Vikings a high pick.  Its the kind of thing Rex Ryan would have loved.

The reason WHY you accumulate 90 million in cap space is to be able to pounce on talent.......we have the ability to do ALL of that

If we keep shirking our offensive weapons......dont complain about 17 points a game and blame it on the QB

Most of our team is literally signed

I dont think we are as bad at RT as you believe...Ty N. is still under contract.....we hung onto Waddle for a reason.

We use more big nickle then standard LB sets nowadays

We have FA money to sign a edge rusher (and picks to draft one....and Beane has shown he can find them......Johnson with a offseason might have something there)

6 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

I agree, there is a time and place for laying down your cash, I just don't think doing it for a WR in a year where the draft has more top talent at WR than we have seen in years makes any sense. Besides, does he strike anyone as being a guy who is just dying to come and play for the Bills? I'd rather see the money go to improving the pass rush or bringing in a real TE.

How much money do you think needs to be spent on a "real TE"

 

(by the way.....I like Knox and Sweeney)

[Mickey]

Just to refresh people's minds as to what concerns people have about Diggs (and yes, Thielen also comes off like a jerk):

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/10/3/20897444/minnesota-vikings-stefon-diggs-trade-rumors-kirk-cousins-adam-thielen

 

"Diggs was reportedly seen yelling on the sideline in the direction of Vikings offensive coordinator Kevin Stefanski and threw his gloves on the ground after one failed drive."

"...and one day after the receiver missed practice despite not being listed with an injury, reporters asked Diggs whether he’d requested a trade from Minnesota. Diggs neither confirmed nor denied it"

[Royale with Cheese]

The fact that Beane hasn't gotten this done yet is an indication we're tanking next year.

[Alphadawg7]

22 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

They have two WR's and chose to keep the other guy. He apparently was not considered to be the No. 1 WR on that team. 

 

It makes no logical sense to say that in a situation where they cant afford both to just assume who ever gets traded was traded because he was a "problem".  And for all we know, Diggs may have asked to be traded, it could be why he is the one being shopped.  

 

22 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

 

Never said Theilen didn't have an attitude problem. It is certainly conceivable that they are both jerks. Bottom line, the guys that know Diggs best decided they'd rather keep Theilen.

 

Again, you don't actually know that.  

 

22 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

 

You are correct, most teams are bright enough not to waste resources on a FA WR when the draft is chock full of very talented ones, best ever most say. 

 

What are you talking about?  He isn't a FA.  And a free agent who is proven to be a top 10 player is always better than an unproven prospect.  While this class is deep at WR, many of them WILL bust.  

 

22 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

 

Free agents are gambles, it is not at all unusual for guys to flop with their second teams. Part of MN's poor management of the cap is the money they paid Diggs, no? A second round pick is pretty valuable, not a sure thing but still valuable. And 45 million is a lot more than Ceedee Lamb is going to cost or Aiuk.

 

Draft picks are by far a bigger gamble than a proven pro bowl player.  

 

22 minutes ago, Mickey said:

 

It is a good cap situation because we haven't gone shopping for high priced glitz or helped other teams fix their cap problems. Lets keep it that way. 

 

Diggs contract is not a bad contract for us, it would actually be a bargain for his talent level.  

[BillsfanAZ]

3 hours ago, njbuff said:

Wrong.

 

There are many.

 

That is why this class of WR’s is considered one  the deepest classes in history.

Look into your crystal ball and tell me which WR's that will be available to the Bills will have the same impact that Diggs will. 

[Alphadawg7]

Im not going to freak out if we don't trade for Diggs, but the odds of hitting on a WR in the 2nd that will be close to as good as Diggs is less than likely.  Yes, great players come from all over the draft, even UDFA...but the ODDS of one being as good or better than Diggs are pretty low and less than likely.  Thats just statistical facts.  I mean the bust rate in the first round is greater than 50%, let alone the 2nd round historically.  

 

Now factor in that a lot of people here don't trust this regime to evaluate WR's (although I personally think thats a bad take by those people given Beane has yet to draft a WR and did a pretty good job finding value in FA last year), and using that 2nd round pick to get a top 10 WR on a good value contract seems to be a no brainer to me.  

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

1.  His team isnt kicking him to the curb.  They are in a cap hell with another elite WR on the team, 2 good TEs and a run first offense where the RB is also a dangerous receiver.  He is a luxury they can no longer afford.  Thats not kicking someone to the curb, thats bad cap management coming back to bite them.

 

2.  Why does he have an "attitude concern"?  Because he didn't like the run first offense?  Theilen complained about it too, so why doesnt Theilen get labeled with the same attitude problem?

 

3.  The fact that the draft IS stocked also makes it possible to poach a top 10 WR from a team who can no longer afford him so they can TRY and replace him with an affordable contract.  

 

4.  Diggs contract is actually great for his talent level.  Minn has to shed salary, and paying two top end WR's on a team already loaded with other weapons is not a luxury they can afford, especially with how much they run with Cook now.  

 

5.  We wont be doing anything close to "mortgaging the future" on Diggs, his contract is so easy for our cap situation.  

Great point with Thielen.  Just like Brady, he’s just passionate.  Diggs does it, he’s a problem and a “cancer.”  
 

and I don’t question the talent of Diggs but I don’t know if that’s what we need.  I certainly take him if the price is right.  But we still need a big receiver if we got him. 

[Doc Brown]

Just look at 1st round WR's taken in the last five drafts and it's like flipping a coin.....

 

Cooper, White, Parker, Agholar, Perriman, Coleman, Fuller, Doctson, Treadwell, Davis, M. Williams, Ross, Moore, Ridley, M. Brown, and Harry.

 

I'd take Diggs ahead of any of them except Cooper.  There's at least four busts in there and a few who've underwhelmed.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, purple haze said:

Aiyuk, I don't believe, will be there in round 3.  But yeah, Beane should still draft a WR regardless of Free Agency or trades.

 

Yeah - i assume someone falls down because of workouts, and others will jump up.  I just liked both of those guys when i watched them play.  

[C.Biscuit97]

17 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Im not going to freak out if we don't trade for Diggs, but the odds of hitting on a WR in the 2nd that will be close to as good as Diggs is less than likely.  Yes, great players come from all over the draft, even UDFA...but the ODDS of one being as good or better than Diggs are pretty low and less than likely.  Thats just statistical facts.  I mean the bust rate in the first round is greater than 50%, let alone the 2nd round historically.  

 

Now factor in that a lot of people here don't trust this regime to evaluate WR's (although I personally think thats a bad take by those people given Beane has yet to draft a WR and did a pretty good job finding value in FA last year), and using that 2nd round pick to get a top 10 WR on a good value contract seems to be a no brainer to me.  

Well you’re generally right but since receiver is such a dependable position, good ones can be found throughout the draft.  The Steelers rarely draft a receiver high (I think JuJu is the highest One they have drafted in a long time) yet they always find studs.  

Just now, Doc Brown said:

Just look at 1st round WR's taken in the last five drafts and it's like flipping a coin.....

 

Cooper, White, Parker, Agholar, Perriman, Coleman, Fuller, Doctson, Treadwell, Davis, M. Williams, Ross, Moore, Ridley, M. Brown, and Harry.

 

I'd take Diggs ahead of any of them except Cooper.  There's at least four busts in there and a few who've underwhelmed.  

But that’s again based on other things besides the receivers talent.  Like if Diggs got drafted by us, he’s not putting up the same stats.  I think Corey Davis is good but got stuck with Mariota.  That’s actually a guy I’d explore trading for. 

[Doc Brown]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

But that’s again based on other things besides the receivers talent.  Like if Diggs got drafted by us, he’s not putting up the same stats.  I think Corey Davis is good but got stuck with Mariota.  That’s actually a guy I’d explore trading for. 

Davis has potential but dealt with injuries.  He's also had a problem with drops since entering the league which isn't good when you have a quarterback that throws the ball really hard without the best ball placement.  AJ Brown made Davis look really bad last year considering Davis was the 5th pick in the draft.  If you can get him cheap he may be able to turn his career around but I wouldn't count on him.