Westside Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 Just now, Matt Parrino said: I'd probably go Shenault for now. I'm hoping he can test next week. Higgins would be intriguing to once I get a chance to hear him talk and see how he runs. Delpit might be an intriguing option I saw suggested. Thanks Matt, I wouldn't mind Shenault or Higgens myself.
GG Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 3 hours ago, thebandit27 said: Once again, you can do all of that AND keep Murphy, and you’ll be a better team than cutting him to gain cap space that you don’t need. In your scenario, who would you rather have at DE4: Johnson, Love, or Murphy? Honestly it isn’t close. That's not the reality, though. The choice for DE #4 should be Murphy vs veteran FA at $10 million. So the proper Q is, Murphy or Quinn, or Addison? 2
MasterStrategist Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Matt Parrino said: I'd probably go Shenault for now. I'm hoping he can test next week. Higgins would be intriguing to once I get a chance to hear him talk and see how he runs. Delpit might be an intriguing option I saw suggested. Agree completely, Shenault seems like a great fit with his physicality, leadership, and overall talent. He isn't Deebo Samuel, but he is multidimensional player that can be moved around alot. For defensive end, I think it comes down to how much they think Darryl Johnson will develop in 2020 and 2021. Hughes, fa def end, top 3 round draft pick. and either Murphy or Johnson is my best guess for this position group. It is in desperate need of an athletic upgrade, and while I expect Hughes to be better than 2019 (due to injury), I think they need to start planning for 2-3 yrs down the road (no hughes, murphy). I like Shaqs intensity and swag, but dont think he will be retained
thebandit27 Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 1 hour ago, GG said: That's not the reality, though. The choice for DE #4 should be Murphy vs veteran FA at $10 million. So the proper Q is, Murphy or Quinn, or Addison? How so? If assume that Hughes is on the team, then Murphy is, at the moment, no worse than DE2. If the team were to keep Shaq, then Murphy is no worse than DE3 (of course, this all ignores the fact that Murphy played more snaps than either Hughes or Shaq in 2019). If the team then also adds a FA, then Murphy is no worse than DE4. So unless the plan is to sign 2 FA DEs at $10M plus and re-sign Shaq, then I don’t see how your situation comes to fruition. 1
The Jokeman Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: I don't understand how people could be satisfied with Trent Murphy. He is the Star Lutulieltieieii of the DE position...depth, maybe some rotation, but should see little playing time since he is not an impact player. Murphy is usually pushed clear out of the play by the RT, and you normally see him running to the pile on your screen when the play is blown dead because that is how far he was removed from the play. Funny, I believe McD referred to Murphy as having 'that DNA' he's looking for. I guess that is analogous to having a high motor ala Chris Kelsay. Both were meh players. No way do I pay Murphy $8M this year, and as pointed out, dead cap is less than $2M. This is a clear cut and not too hard to replace a middling DE/edge rusher. He's a list of DEs making $7M - $8M in 2020 and their sack numbers from 2019. Clelin Ferrell 4.5 Myles Garrett 10.0 Trent Murphy 5.0 Matthew Ioannidis 8.5 Solomon Thomas 2.0 DaQuan Jones 1.0 The fact replacing Murphy is no easy task, look over the list of UFAs and then come up with a list of guys you think we can sign for a salary less than or equal to Murphy who will produce the same sack totals at DE. Remember that there are 31 other teams that are going to be competing with us for their services as well. Edited February 18, 2020 by The Jokeman
GG Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 52 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: How so? If assume that Hughes is on the team, then Murphy is, at the moment, no worse than DE2. If the team were to keep Shaq, then Murphy is no worse than DE3 (of course, this all ignores the fact that Murphy played more snaps than either Hughes or Shaq in 2019). If the team then also adds a FA, then Murphy is no worse than DE4. So unless the plan is to sign 2 FA DEs at $10M plus and re-sign Shaq, then I don’t see how your situation comes to fruition. I misread the ranking, treating then as DEs #2. My position remains the same, the Murphy decision will be in the first week of FA. If they add someone in the first week, he's gone. In any event, I imagine Bills reached out to him for a restructure. He's due to make $10 million in 2020, which is above his market value. It's best for both to cut that number down.
ALF Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 They should restructure Murphy with incentives to a possible $10M
formerlyofCtown Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 On 2/17/2020 at 8:05 PM, The Jokeman said: I'm a Murphy fan and agree cutting him makes no sense. I'm not opposed taking an Edge rusher in Round 1 but more to replace Shaq and eventually Hughes. I would like to see Shaq back. He’s a big deal to our run D. We have a great secondary. Bad run D makes that irrelevant. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 19, 2020 Author Posted February 19, 2020 15 hours ago, Cripple Creek said: Is there a roster bonus paid out at the beginning of the league year? For Trent Murphy? Yes, but it's pretty small - $500k 3 hours ago, Jaraxxus said: Give me elite offense not second tier. I'd rather skimp on defense. The way Beane and McDermott have built, they appear to hold the exact opposite view to yours, so you may be unhappy watching this. 1
Happy Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 4 hours ago, The Jokeman said: He's a list of DEs making $7M - $8M in 2020 and their sack numbers from 2019. Clelin Ferrell 4.5 Myles Garrett 10.0 Trent Murphy 5.0 Matthew Ioannidis 8.5 Solomon Thomas 2.0 DaQuan Jones 1.0 The fact replacing Murphy is no easy task, look over the list of UFAs and then come up with a list of guys you think we can sign for a salary less than or equal to Murphy who will produce the same sack totals at DE. Remember that there are 31 other teams that are going to be competing with us for their services as well. Here you are. I took the max age of 30 and didn't worry about salary. Murphy's QB Hit number wasn't available, at least that I saw. Statistically, he had a good year, only 2016 was better. As I mentioned earlier, Murphy is usually pushed clear out of the play by the RT, which I gather just by eyesight as there is not a statistic for that. For his salary, which is in the upper end, Murphy doesn't really stand out and shouldn't be too difficult to replace. IMO, he is nothing special and is overpaid. 2020 UFA DE (from SpoTrac) Player Age Tackles Sack QB Hit FF 2019 AAV ($M) Derek Wolfe 30 34 7 13 1 9.1 Rober Quinn 30 34 12 24 2 8.0 Vic Beasley 28 42 8 12 2 3.6 J Clowney 27 31 3 13 4 15.0 Leonard Williams 26 46 1 16 1 4.6 Arik Armstead 26 54 10 19 2 2.4 E Ogbah 26 32 6 11 1 1.6 Chris Jones 26 36 9 20 1 1.5 Y Ngakoue 25 41 8 17 4 0.8 Trent Murphy 29 36 5 ? 2 7.5
Paulus Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 Trent Murphy remind me of that Kelsey fellow. I dont like him.
The Jokeman Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 7 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: Here you are. I took the max age of 30 and didn't worry about salary. Murphy's QB Hit number wasn't available, at least that I saw. Statistically, he had a good year, only 2016 was better. As I mentioned earlier, Murphy is usually pushed clear out of the play by the RT, which I gather just by eyesight as there is not a statistic for that. For his salary, which is in the upper end, Murphy doesn't really stand out and shouldn't be too difficult to replace. IMO, he is nothing special and is overpaid. 2020 UFA DE (from SpoTrac) Player Age Tackles Sack QB Hit FF 2019 AAV ($M) Derek Wolfe 30 34 7 13 1 9.1 Rober Quinn 30 34 12 24 2 8.0 Vic Beasley 28 42 8 12 2 3.6 J Clowney 27 31 3 13 4 15.0 Leonard Williams 26 46 1 16 1 4.6 Arik Armstead 26 54 10 19 2 2.4 E Ogbah 26 32 6 11 1 1.6 Chris Jones 26 36 9 20 1 1.5 Y Ngakoue 25 41 8 17 4 0.8 Trent Murphy 29 36 5 ? 2 7.5 So which two do you think we could get and pay less than Murphy? Since we might have to replace Shaq too.
GG Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 34 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: So which two do you think we could get and pay less than Murphy? Since we might have to replace Shaq too. Beane has to decide whether Bam Johnson is ready for an expanded role this season. It was clear that he wasn't up to the rigors of run defense last year, and the hope is that with the off-season conditioning, he'll be more stout. But since hope is not a strategy, Bills need to address the DE position for the long term - Murphy is signed through 2020 and Hughes through 2021. That's why the position should be a priority in first FA week and at the top of the draft. To answer Happy's question, Murphy was credited with only 9 QB hits in 2020, which is very low for the position he plays and benefits from the attention that Hughes gets. At this point, Murphy would be an adequate piece in a DE rotation, but not at a $10 million cost. Bills would be better served to use that money on a long term deal with Shaq, add a bridge vet with a higher ceiling than Murphy and draft another DE early. 1 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 9 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: Here you are. I took the max age of 30 and didn't worry about salary. Murphy's QB Hit number wasn't available, at least that I saw. Statistically, he had a good year, only 2016 was better. As I mentioned earlier, Murphy is usually pushed clear out of the play by the RT, which I gather just by eyesight as there is not a statistic for that. For his salary, which is in the upper end, Murphy doesn't really stand out and shouldn't be too difficult to replace. IMO, he is nothing special and is overpaid. 2020 UFA DE (from SpoTrac) Player Age Tackles Sack QB Hit FF 2019 AAV ($M) Derek Wolfe 30 34 7 13 1 9.1 Rober Quinn 30 34 12 24 2 8.0 Vic Beasley 28 42 8 12 2 3.6 J Clowney 27 31 3 13 4 15.0 Leonard Williams 26 46 1 16 1 4.6 Arik Armstead 26 54 10 19 2 2.4 E Ogbah 26 32 6 11 1 1.6 Chris Jones 26 36 9 20 1 1.5 Y Ngakoue 25 41 8 17 4 0.8 Trent Murphy 29 36 5 ? 2 7.5 ...Clowney is looking to "reset the market in free agency"...….Mack type money is being mentioned...……….
The Jokeman Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 29 minutes ago, GG said: Beane has to decide whether Bam Johnson is ready for an expanded role this season. It was clear that he wasn't up to the rigors of run defense last year, and the hope is that with the off-season conditioning, he'll be more stout. But since hope is not a strategy, Bills need to address the DE position for the long term - Murphy is signed through 2020 and Hughes through 2021. That's why the position should be a priority in first FA week and at the top of the draft. To answer Happy's question, Murphy was credited with only 9 QB hits in 2020, which is very low for the position he plays and benefits from the attention that Hughes gets. At this point, Murphy would be an adequate piece in a DE rotation, but not at a $10 million cost. Bills would be better served to use that money on a long term deal with Shaq, add a bridge vet with a higher ceiling than Murphy and draft another DE early. My biggest concern was Shaq's numbers prior to last year weren't as good as they were last year. He has even said on social media that the Bills not taking his option fueled his play for 2019 to earn a contract. It just screams pay me and I go back to what I was, which was a solid run tackling DE. I don't mind adding another edge rusher to compete with Trent. Infact I'd add a veteran and am leaning toward drafting a kid in Round 1 too. 1
Happy Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 2 hours ago, The Jokeman said: So which two do you think we could get and pay less than Murphy? Since we might have to replace Shaq too. I'm hoping/optimistic we re-sign Shaq as I think it would be a good move. Why is it that Murphy's pay is some type of benchmark that needs to be measured against? I think Murphy is a middling talent who is overpaid, and whose stats this year were much better than he is. Ngakoue or Armstead would be fine, and may even cost less than Murphy. I'm on the fence about Clowney as there is no way he lives up to his contract, but he is a force that occupies the backfield and makes the QB uncomfortable. Ultimately, I want to a) re-sign Shaq b) get a FA to replace Murphy, and c) draft a DE/edge early - above the 5th round, preferably. Daryl Johnson was depth and special teams, he didn't meet any starting need at DE.
The Jokeman Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I'm hoping/optimistic we re-sign Shaq as I think it would be a good move. Why is it that Murphy's pay is some type of benchmark that needs to be measured against? I think Murphy is a middling talent who is overpaid, and whose stats this year were much better than he is. Ngakoue or Armstead would be fine, and may even cost less than Murphy. I'm on the fence about Clowney as there is no way he lives up to his contract, but he is a force that occupies the backfield and makes the QB uncomfortable. Ultimately, I want to a) re-sign Shaq b) get a FA to replace Murphy, and c) draft a DE/edge early - above the 5th round, preferably. Daryl Johnson was depth and special teams, he didn't meet any starting need at DE. I can see Shaq wanting more than Murphy because he got more sacks but I don't think he's that much better. Armstead another one of those one year wonders I worry about and while he is a solid run stuffer not sure he an elite pass rusher. I'm not sold on Clowney either and Ngakoue likely going to command a top salary and doubt we pay it.
NewEra Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I'm hoping/optimistic we re-sign Shaq as I think it would be a good move. Why is it that Murphy's pay is some type of benchmark that needs to be measured against? I think Murphy is a middling talent who is overpaid, and whose stats this year were much better than he is. Ngakoue or Armstead would be fine, and may even cost less than Murphy. I'm on the fence about Clowney as there is no way he lives up to his contract, but he is a force that occupies the backfield and makes the QB uncomfortable. Ultimately, I want to a) re-sign Shaq b) get a FA to replace Murphy, and c) draft a DE/edge early - above the 5th round, preferably. Daryl Johnson was depth and special teams, he didn't meet any starting need at DE. LOL!!! now that’s the funniest thing I’ve read all month
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 19, 2020 Author Posted February 19, 2020 12 hours ago, Jaraxxus said: I'm fully aware and prepared to be disappointed again. Fair 11 minutes ago, NewEra said: LOL!!! now that’s the funniest thing I’ve read all month I'm not sure what adjective I'd use. How about "inconsistent with current market value of top pass rushing NFL DE"?
Happy Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, The Jokeman said: I can see Shaq wanting more than Murphy because he got more sacks but I don't think he's that much better. Armstead another one of those one year wonders I worry about and while he is a solid run stuffer not sure he an elite pass rusher. I'm not sold on Clowney either and Ngakoue likely going to command a top salary and doubt we pay it. I really do think Beane tries to get a deal with Shaq done as I believe they want to keep him. If Shaq wants Clowney type money, he's gone. IIRC, McD made a comment at the end of the season that he would have liked to see more from the defensive line in terms of QB pressure; they were somewhere toward the middle of the league as far as that goes. Murphy needed to step up and fill that role, which he did not do that good of a job at, and certainly below his pay level. He may be a high motor guy, but you're not going to contend for the SB having guys like Murphy and Star being counted on as DLine starters, or even high percentage rotation since they're middling players. I'd be fine with keeping both at a lower pay rate and depth/low rotation percentage.
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