WhoTom Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: Oh yeah....nevermind the fact that this move SCREWED the Bills over for a few years. Ugh Whaley was such a terrible GM. Give me one example when a WR made a QB? It NEVER happens which is why everyone laughed at Whaley and why we all laugh at any Bills fan who has blind loyalty to Doug. He’s where he belongs - the island of Misfit and defective toys - the XFL I never said I liked the decision or that it was good for the Bills (it obviously wasn't), just that I understood his perspective on it.
section122 Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: Oh yeah....nevermind the fact that this move SCREWED the Bills over for a few years. Ugh Whaley was such a terrible GM. Give me one example when a WR made a QB? It NEVER happens which is why everyone laughed at Whaley and why we all laugh at any Bills fan who has blind loyalty to Doug. He’s where he belongs - the island of Misfit and defective toys - the XFL Randy Moss made Daunte Culpepper. The list isn't long but there are examples. What is true is that talent at wr helps young qbs tremendously. I have put the list up so I will only do the condensed version here. Eagles went out and surrounded Wentz, Rams did the same with Goff, hell even the Bears tried to with Trubisky, Mahomes walked into an incredibly talented team. Almost every young qb is given excellent receiving talent to help them out. It is part of the winning with a qb on a rookie contract formula that so many teams are using (succesfully I might add). It is what makes this year so important for the Bills. They need to give Josh some bonafide A talent on offense. 2 1
hjnick Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: QB Kyle Orton RB Fred Jackson WR Sammy Watkins WR Robert Woods TE Lee Smith LT Cordy Glenn LG Kraig Urbik C Eric Wood RG Erik Pears RT Seantrel Henderson uhhhhh..... Wish we had Lee Smith on our team 5 years ago.... We did... *sigh* 1 1
Reed83HOF Posted February 18, 2020 Author Posted February 18, 2020 6 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Except he (Beane) includes middle linebacker and center. Having drafted Edmunds and give Morse a big deal though he presumably doesn't see either of those as "needs" at this moment. in McD's scheme MLB is important. I entirely should have added that since as I have been quoting Beane, he was a top playing in a position of need. If you use your OLBs as pass rushers, obviously those move up the list. In our scheme, not as much... I'm not sure center is a premium position, but it certainly was a huge need for us. Not having an anchor at center in the 2018 was awful; it was a huge need for us as well once we focused on rebuilding the OL. At this time last year, my preference was McCoy or Jenkins with our second rounder if we didn't go after Morse (only FA center I wanted). I loved Bradbury as a prospect and he went at a good slot.
Reed83HOF Posted February 18, 2020 Author Posted February 18, 2020 5 hours ago, ScottLaw said: It's a bad reason to pass if that's the case.... your suggesting they didn't draft a single WR last draft because this years class is a lot better.... so basically the thought was no WR was worth it. They were dead wrong about that and have been a lot with the WR position. His comments and actions suggest hes a little hesistant with the position. You have to look at drafts with players available in positions of need - they rebuilt the OL and signed 2 FA WRs drafted a TE, signed a TE and most likely hoped for some develop of the other WRs on our roster. Josh had tons of question marks as well. At pick#9 Oliver was the correct choice - Cody Ford might be a good player as a G, still don't see RT and I honestly expected another position at that pick. I am sure they evaluated the talent level of the WRs in the draft and when thee picks came up, the looked at those WRs values and the players we ultimately took, if values are similar they fill the need if there is a talent disparity they take the guy who is rated higher. I would say that most FOs & scouts also know what is coming up the following season and if you see depth in that draft for a particular position and they are most likely scouting those underclassman as well - they have a good feel how the WRs last year mixed with what they saw out of this class. On those close calls in the 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds etc. they felt more comfortable going the way we need knowing there is a to of overall depth this year. It's very fluid and not absolute. Metcalf went to a great situation last year. N'keal Harry did not look good. Hollywood had a good season, but their are WRs in this draft who will be just as good and have even higher ceilings. As of last year alone Metcalf > Ford; that I agree with 12 hours ago, Aussie Joe said: So what happened after 2014? Revisit his drafts in 15-16 for a laugh... Don't revist any draft before 2017 and after TD was canned - they are not pretty at all. Seriously, it is beyond gut wrenching
Reed83HOF Posted February 18, 2020 Author Posted February 18, 2020 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: I'm sure they did too... they opted for a questionable RT over a premier position..... a premier position of need on the team in WR... several said they needed to do more at the position and they opted to not draft one WR despite the need. They signed 2 WRs in UFA, hard to say they didn't address it despite the need. There are some who really wanted Metcalf and others who didn't; I feel that is what your beef is coming down to, plenty of teams passed on him twice. You can't say they didn't address WR, because they did and yes there is increased need here for 1 more starter and new depth in WRs 4-6. If you asked anyone last year, the OL needed to improve more than anything else... 1
GunnerBill Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 38 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: in McD's scheme MLB is important. I entirely should have added that since as I have been quoting Beane, he was a top playing in a position of need. If you use your OLBs as pass rushers, obviously those move up the list. In our scheme, not as much... I'm not sure center is a premium position, but it certainly was a huge need for us. Not having an anchor at center in the 2018 was awful; it was a huge need for us as well once we focused on rebuilding the OL. At this time last year, my preference was McCoy or Jenkins with our second rounder if we didn't go after Morse (only FA center I wanted). I loved Bradbury as a prospect and he went at a good slot. The reason I include center is because when they extended Eric Wood they talked at length in interviews about the importance of that position. As well as that, it was ALWAYS a position Carolina valued and invested in. Both under Hurns and Gettleman so I think Beane comes from that "center still matters" school. That said he did go into a year with Groy and Bodine..... I think it probably comes after all the other spots you have mentioned but I am convinced he would rank center as the best of the rest. Before right tackle, or running back, or tight end or safety or CB2 etc. 2
Reed83HOF Posted February 18, 2020 Author Posted February 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The reason I include center is because when they extended Eric Wood they talked at length in interviews about the importance of that position. As well as that, it was ALWAYS a position Carolina valued and invested in. Both under Hurns and Gettleman so I think Beane comes from that "center still matters" school. That said he did go into a year with Groy and Bodine..... I think it probably comes after all the other spots you have mentioned but I am convinced he would rank center as the best of the rest. Before right tackle, or running back, or tight end or safety or CB2 etc. Can't argue with any of that
Mr. WEO Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 6 hours ago, section122 said: Randy Moss made Daunte Culpepper. The list isn't long but there are examples. What is true is that talent at wr helps young qbs tremendously. I have put the list up so I will only do the condensed version here. Eagles went out and surrounded Wentz, Rams did the same with Goff, hell even the Bears tried to with Trubisky, Mahomes walked into an incredibly talented team. Almost every young qb is given excellent receiving talent to help them out. It is part of the winning with a qb on a rookie contract formula that so many teams are using (succesfully I might add). It is what makes this year so important for the Bills. They need to give Josh some bonafide A talent on offense. After that, how did he do with Kerry Collins/Andrew Walter/Aaron Brooks?
3rdand12 Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 21 hours ago, Don Otreply said: Fingers crossed because I’m a Bills fan, ???. All kidding aside I do believe that Beane will do what’s needed, although maybe not what some might want him to do... Go Bills!!! he has earned a reasonable degree of faith from us Fans. some day perhaps ? we will learn to love again 20 hours ago, Dkollidas said: I’m so split on Shenault or an edge. I would say if Shenault is there with Epeness or Chaisson, I go edge. If both those guys are gone and you’re looking at Gross-Matos or Shenault, I take Shenault. I just think his fit and upside in this offense, along with this organizations seeming proficiency to deal with “injury prone” players (John Brown, Mitch Morse as examples), is perfect. I think it would allow Daboll to really show off some creativity. great depth in WR.s get two ! In the later rounds. and don't reach far for any player you covet Brandon !
Don Otreply Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said: he has earned a reasonable degree of faith from us Fans. some day perhaps ? we will learn to love again Beane did a good job for the 2019 season, 2018 was an all around mess, for multiple reasons. I for one think he has done a good job for Buffalo, best GM we have had for quite some time. Go Bills!!!
3rdand12 Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 4 hours ago, ScottLaw said: I'm sure they did too... they opted for a questionable RT over a premier position..... a premier position of need on the team in WR... several said they needed to do more at the position and they opted to not draft one WR despite the need. They addressed the Whole Offense to varying degrees. That is of wide ranging opinion. Surely not a finished WR room. But I imagine it will look better yet before preseason
3rdand12 Posted February 18, 2020 Posted February 18, 2020 14 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Beane did a good job for the 2019 season, 2018 was an all around mess, for multiple reasons. I for one think he has done a good job for Buffalo, best GM we have had for quite some time. Go Bills!!! 2018 was just weird. all the cost cutting still going strong. and odd choices. tested my faith in The Process : ) Still hurting from trying to field players like Clay and Benjamin, Zay jones. etc The O Line was concerning. For me Beane has shown enough all around improvement last season in FA , contracts ! and a Draft , that i am going to give him the benefit of the doubt . That some are yet lingering to give.
Buffalo Junction Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 7 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: You have to look at drafts with players available in positions of need - they rebuilt the OL and signed 2 FA WRs drafted a TE, signed a TE and most likely hoped for some develop of the other WRs on our roster. Josh had tons of question marks as well. At pick#9 Oliver was the correct choice - Cody Ford might be a good player as a G, still don't see RT and I honestly expected another position at that pick. I am sure they evaluated the talent level of the WRs in the draft and when thee picks came up, the looked at those WRs values and the players we ultimately took, if values are similar they fill the need if there is a talent disparity they take the guy who is rated higher. I would say that most FOs & scouts also know what is coming up the following season and if you see depth in that draft for a particular position and they are most likely scouting those underclassman as well - they have a good feel how the WRs last year mixed with what they saw out of this class. On those close calls in the 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds etc. they felt more comfortable going the way we need knowing there is a to of overall depth this year. It's very fluid and not absolute. Metcalf went to a great situation last year. N'keal Harry did not look good. Hollywood had a good season, but their are WRs in this draft who will be just as good and have even higher ceilings. As of last year alone Metcalf > Ford; that I agree with I can’t rule out the possibility that they didn’t see Metcalf as a fit for Daboll’s offense due to complexity, or they were afraid of the neck injury. It’s also possible that McB decided a WR was useless unless Allen had time to throw. As to the former, I’m starting to look into WRs that may have an edge conceptually with regards to Daboll’s scheme. That’ll include Alabama WRs that have played under him and WRs with QB experience (Lynn Bowden) or advanced insight into NFL life (V Jefferson, Reagor, etc) 1
Buffalo Junction Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 Just now, ScottLaw said: That’s a bad possibility.... you got a system problem when you can’t draft a talented and good WR because your system is too complex. Agree. J Brown commented on it though, so it can’t be ruled out. The Pats have used guys with QB experience for years.... There’s enough smoke to look for fire. That said, it just means that it might take longer for some of the raw guys to show well in this offense. As much as it’s a potential issue there are a lot of guys in the draft who fit the Bill: Jeudy, Ruggs, Reagor, V Jefferson, etc. I expect them to take two unless they grab an AJ Green.
Don Otreply Posted February 19, 2020 Posted February 19, 2020 3 hours ago, 3rdand12 said: 2018 was just weird. all the cost cutting still going strong. and odd choices. tested my faith in The Process : ) Still hurting from trying to field players like Clay and Benjamin, Zay jones. etc The O Line was concerning. For me Beane has shown enough all around improvement last season in FA , contracts ! and a Draft , that i am going to give him the benefit of the doubt . That some are yet lingering to give. All of the above, 2
GreggTX Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 Beane needs to start nailing his 1st round picks, period. Oliver still has a shot at being elite and Edmunds could be OK, but Allen remains a work in progress.
ganesh Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 On 2/18/2020 at 3:18 AM, RyanC883 said: I could see a CB in Rd. 1 if Bean thinks the guy is a CB1 talent. Having two CB1 talents on a team is a necessity. It would depend on whether the DE's he wants are gone or not. I think we go WR in Rd. 2 and 3. or if the Bills are able to re-sign Kevin Johnson in FA. 1
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted February 24, 2020 Posted February 24, 2020 On 2/17/2020 at 3:25 PM, C.Biscuit97 said: Not to sidetrack this but look at that 2014 roster. It was arguably the best team in the last 20 years. Whaley isn’t close to as bad as he is made out to be here. I agree with 90% of your posts but this one I have to disagree on. Whaley and Brandon are the main reason we had a 20 year drought. I was so sure about Whaley that I said when he is fired no other team will hire him.
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