Josh Norman released

[Mr. WEO]

On 2/14/2020 at 10:02 AM, YoloinOhio said:

Yeah he’s an RFA and going nowhere 

 

He's no good.  A liability 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Norman is just a name at this point. Admittedly I dont view every game he’s in, but when I do see him,  he’s usually giving up a big play. 

[JGMcD2]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair question.

 

Has someone really suggested cutting Sweeney?  I searched and did not find.  That would make no sense.  He's entering his 2nd season where players often show big growth, he's inexpensive, and he played well in the Jets game.  He does not play teams (at least, hasn't yet).    He's flashed, he's cheap, he's got plenty of room to grow.  Cutting him would be dumb, unless he's just totally out-competed in training camp and even then gotta ask "is the competition a pre-season hero?"

Croom, as I understand it, would be a FA if he hadn't been placed on IR so the Bills get another year of him if they want.  He's cheap.  In his single playing season 2018 (2nd year), he contributed roughly as many YPG and same catch % as rookie Sweeney.  In theory, there's no reason not to bring him into training camp.  In practice: suppose he does out-play Sweeney in camp.  Sweeney looked good in his rookie season against Jets starting D in a game they wanted to win last December and will be under contract for 2 years.  Croom spent his rookie season on the practice squad, hasn't seen the field since 2018 (at which point he contributed ~= rookie Sweeney) and has 1 more year only because he was IR'd in 2019.  If Croom out-plays Sweeney and you have to choose between them, just how sure are ya he isn't "pre-season hero" who will vanish when it's for real?  Fans don't like Croom on the team because he's famously dating the owner's daughter so they feel it's nepotism.  Cut Sweeney and lose his 2 years, watch Croom be "meh" in the season, and hear that roar.

 

Smith fills a different role on the team, primarily a blocker (though Man! he whiffed on a couple in the playoff game.  Ouch.)   He plays teams.  His penalties sucked, but he did seem to get "locked in" following Cle when McD called him out in a presser.  It's only a $500k roster bonus to bring him into training camp, so why not?  One reason: seeing Smith split out wide and running deep routes is inconsistent with the philosophy "put the best playmakers in position to make plays".  I am fine with keeping Smith, provided McDermott puts Daboll in a headlock and tells him he never, ever, ever wants to see that again.  Unless Smith catches a TD pass in which case he's a genius.  Heh.  JK, pass to D-Dawk instead.

 

Kroft is the only guy that IMO it really might make sense to move on from before TC if we sign another veteran TE.  The reason is $$.  $2M of his salary fully guarantees on the 5th day of the league year, plus a $750M signing bonus. He's a $6.6M cap hit next season, and his play last season simply did not live up to that, including in the final game of the season when Kroft played 50% of the snaps and Knox wore street clothes.  I saw some good blocking out of him, but he also got totally pwned at times, including on that key play where Mercilus strip-sacked Allen vs. Hou - that was "dang, Knox could of whiffed that".  Obviously, the coaches and trainers know more than we fans; it's entirely possible that Kroft was still rehabbing his injuries and playing hampered last season and will come back fully fit and ready to roar, but the same caveat "is he a TC lion?" might apply.  If cap is not an issue and if the team wants to make a $2.75M bet that's the case, Go For It. 

 

It would actually be fantastic to have 3 great TE who can block and catch next season and I'm for any means to make that happen.

 

 

Fantastic break down!

 

I did see mention of cutting Sweeney but I honestly can’t remember where... I read so many threads when I’m bored lol. Certain things stick in my mind haha 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Fantastic break down!

I did see mention of cutting Sweeney but I honestly can’t remember where... I read so many threads when I’m bored lol. Certain things stick in my mind haha 

 

I don't disbelieve you.  Our search function could "use ketchup", and fans this time of year propose all sorts of cuts that really make no sense until roster cut-down.

I think we're partly conditioned by years of scraping the cap, but that doesn't explain any proposal to cut Sweeney!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 2/14/2020 at 10:26 AM, JGMcD2 said:

It’s because Levi struggled for a stretch last season and most posters on this board aren’t ok with the ups and downs that occur week to week or season to season in the NFL. Player has to be an All-Pro consistently or else they’re worthless. 
 

It’s called being a fan and not having any ability to detach and assess, or evaluate talent. 

 

Lack of ability to detach and assess and evaluate talent as a fan..........as opposed to a professional football analyst like Sam Monson of PFF which "tracks every snap of every player in every game and issues grades accordingly and dispassionately" using criteria based on some stuff that didn't happen like "turnover worthy throws" (but maybe not other stuff that didn't happen like drops or catchable balls that weren't).

 

PFF does claim all 32 NFL teams as clients. 

 

Ahem, sorry.  Got my heel caught on a soapbox there.

 

Your point about fans being reactive week to week and lacking ability to detach and assess is perfectly valid of course.  Just pointing out that the other end of the spectrum, tracking every snap of every player in every game and issuing grades dispassionately, can be equally flawed in a different direction, depending upon the quality of the assessment tools and the grading criteria.  GIGO still applies.

 

The "sweet spot" is, I'm sure, somewhere in the middle, where coaches and scouts watch players with an experienced eye and the knowledge of what their assignment actually was on the play, then grade performance using that knowledge and objective criteria.  Even coaches and scouts from other teams can't replicate that.

 

I think Levi Wallace is a talented player who gave the Bills excellent value at CB for being an UDFA and for his salary.  I think we missed him against Houston.  I believe fans are down on him because, let's face it, we inevitably compare him to Tre' White, and Levi Wallace is no Tre' White.  I'd love an upgrade, but IMHO the best immediate upgrade for the Bills would be more consistent pressure in the the middle and more pass rush because, as Terry Bradshaw once put it, "it's hard to throw completions when you're sitting on your ass."  Bills should ABSOLUTELY tender Wallace as an ERFA if they haven't already and use a three-pronged approach to edge: resign Shaq, go after anyone they like in FA, and draft the best player available to them at edge in one of the first 3 rounds.

 

[Buddo]

Fwiw, the big mention of cutting Sweeney is the OP for the 'using spotrac tool, releases and solutions'.

 

As regards Norman, if his former HC isn't interested in retaining him, I'm not sure we should be interested in signing him. While I don't watch many other games than the Bills, I do pay attention to what people say about players around the league, and my impression is that Norman hasn't lived up to his contract, and by a decent margin.

 

I wouldn't say the Bills won't have some interest, as iirc, McDermott was key in both drafting and developing Norman, and he obviously knows how to get the best out of him.

 

I will say if they do look hard at him, it will be for cheap money (relatively speaking).

 

The way it appears we set up our zone coverage, is that you want someone like Tre, who can play man well, so you can mix lots of other coverages up. The only way we get two top 'man' corners, is through the draft. We will, I'm sure, pay White as a top corner (he obviously is) because he gives our D more flexibility. Aside from Tre, the rest of the guys will be getting something much more in line with the reduced salaries paid to 'zone' corners.

[Cheektowaga Chad]

I'd rather bring back Wallace and Johnson but if Norman wanted a 1 year 1 million deal and try to make the roster even as a 5th corner I'm all for it. But something tells me that's not something Norman is interested in at the moment

[GreggTX]

His abilities have declined rapidly since 2017. He should retire.

On 2/15/2020 at 10:38 AM, CommonCents said:

I love Bouye, he is super competitive and would be a great fit. I don’t see the Bills spending that type of money for a CB though. 

You don't think they'd spend money on such an important position? Why not?

[DCOrange]

17 hours ago, Buddo said:

Fwiw, the big mention of cutting Sweeney is the OP for the 'using spotrac tool, releases and solutions'.

 

As regards Norman, if his former HC isn't interested in retaining him, I'm not sure we should be interested in signing him. While I don't watch many other games than the Bills, I do pay attention to what people say about players around the league, and my impression is that Norman hasn't lived up to his contract, and by a decent margin.

 

I wouldn't say the Bills won't have some interest, as iirc, McDermott was key in both drafting and developing Norman, and he obviously knows how to get the best out of him.

 

I will say if they do look hard at him, it will be for cheap money (relatively speaking).

 

The way it appears we set up our zone coverage, is that you want someone like Tre, who can play man well, so you can mix lots of other coverages up. The only way we get two top 'man' corners, is through the draft. We will, I'm sure, pay White as a top corner (he obviously is) because he gives our D more flexibility. Aside from Tre, the rest of the guys will be getting something much more in line with the reduced salaries paid to 'zone' corners.

We’ll never know of course, but Norman was likely cut largely because of the cap savings; not necessarily because Rivera doesn’t think he can play.

 

Likewise, we wouldn’t be interested in him at his previous contract but could theoretically be interested at a cheap salary. 

[CLTbills]

On 2/14/2020 at 9:37 AM, klos63 said:

after 4 crappy seasons? Gonna be 33 this season. Don't know why we'd be too interested.

 

nothing more than a training camp depth player at this point

[dollars 2 donuts]

On 2/14/2020 at 9:38 AM, aristocrat said:

does he still have game?  doesn't have to be the main guy here.  

 

 

If he stays on the team through halftime, then we've got a winner.

Edited February 17, 2020 by dollars 2 donuts