stuvian Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 https://www.espn.com/blog/oakland-raiders/post/_/id/24062/how-was-tom-flores-leapfrogged-by-bill-cowher-jimmy-johnson-for-hall-of-fame 2 time SB winner
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 Johnson’s bombast and Cowher’s glare must outweigh Flores quiet professionalism. ? 7
machine gun kelly Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 This is tough as the two winners had fantastic careers, but hard to pass over a coach who won as a player for KC, then as an Assistant to Madden, and then won two in 80 and 83. Those games weren’t even close. I hope he gets in before he passes as he is 83, and at that age you just hope he can make it. 4
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 Comparing their records, Cowher is much stronger, more total years coaching , twice as many winning seasons, won a SB in his next to last season coaching, both had a losing season streak in the middle and came back to win again, but Flores had a second losing streak, last 4 seasons coaching all had poor records, never won more than 6 games his last 4 years, admittedly was in a rebuilding mode, but never got them over the hump. Johnson is a bit tougher argument as less seasons coaching, but no losing seasons after his 1st 1-15 record. But he also did win 2 SB's and also had success with a 2nd team something Flores failed in rather badly. Flores also suffers from much of the Raiders credit going to Al Davis, particularly prior to free agency Davis had a dynasty for many years. Flores may have had a better chance of making the HOF if he hadn't come back to Seattle to coach as all were bad years and probably convinced more that it was all Al Davis doing with the Raiders. It tended to show he could only win when he was handed a very strong team.
Logic Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 The one that keeps getting me is Don Coryell. It is absurd, ridiculous, downright criminal that Coryell isn't in the Hall of Fame. The modern NFL passing game literally would not exist without him. Just an insane, Tasker-level snub. 4 2
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 He wasn’t alive for his coaching career but it seems amazing that a 2 time SB coach won’t be in the HOF. Is there more to the story?
4_kidd_4 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 My uncle, huge Raiders fan, he likes to go to their hotel when they’re in town v. Buffalo, get some pics and all that fan stuff. Last time they were here him and my cousin were waiting by the elevator, the door opens and Del Rio is the first one out and immediately gives them a dickish brush off “Sorry, no time today”, and my uncle says “Oh we weren’t waiting for you anyways, we’re waiting for three time Superbowl champ Coach Flores”, ha. Flores stepped out and chatted with them for a good half hour. 1 1 2
Happy Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, Logic said: The one that keeps getting me is Don Coryell. It is absurd, ridiculous, downright criminal that Coryell isn't in the Hall of Fame. The modern NFL passing game literally would not exist without him. Just an insane, Tasker-level snub. In a time where it is the Hall of Very Good, Air Coryell, along with Dan Fouts, created what has become the modern passing offense. I think Coryell should be in the Hall of Fame, and the only reason he's not is because he didn't win a SB. I do NOT think Cowher or Tom Flores should be in the Hall. They really didn't change/modernize/shape the game at all. 1
Bferra13 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 Cowgals and Squealers are in that NFL royalty club that, to some extent, gets special privileges. Both make me want to puke. 1
Logic Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 14 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: In a time where it is the Hall of Very Good, Air Coryell, along with Dan Fouts, created what has become the modern passing offense. I think Coryell should be in the Hall of Fame, and the only reason he's not is because he didn't win a SB. I do NOT think Cowher or Tom Flores should be in the Hall. They really didn't change/modernize/shape the game at all. I agree about Cowher, for sure. I genuinely don't understand what he did to be worthy of the Hall of Fame. At least in Flores' case, he won TWO Lombardis, as opposed to Cowher, who won one. Baffling. Tasker and Coryell are the two biggest remaining HOF snubs, in my opinion.
billsbackto81 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 26 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Comparing their records, Cowher is much stronger, more total years coaching , twice as many winning seasons, won a SB in his next to last season coaching, both had a losing season streak in the middle and came back to win again, but Flores had a second losing streak, last 4 seasons coaching all had poor records, never won more than 6 games his last 4 years, admittedly was in a rebuilding mode, but never got them over the hump. Didn't exactly "win it" as much as it was given to him. Probably the most fraudulent SB in recent memory. That being said, I wish someone "gave" Marv a SB? 2
row_33 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 35 minutes ago, Logic said: The one that keeps getting me is Don Coryell. It is absurd, ridiculous, downright criminal that Coryell isn't in the Hall of Fame. The modern NFL passing game literally would not exist without him. Just an insane, Tasker-level snub. how did his teams do when it mattered?
Logic Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 Just now, row_33 said: how did his teams do when it mattered? What do I care? He pretty much invented the modern NFL passing game. To my mind, that's a contribution worthy of Hall of Fame inclusion. I'm not alone in this thought. Just about every NFL coach agrees that he absolutely ought to be in the Hall of Fame. Here's an article wherein Belichick talks about the ongoing influence of Coryell on the NFL passing game, and how his coaching tree and playbook continues to this day.https://www.boston.com/sports/extra-points/2010/07/02/remembering_don I mean...what did Bill Cowher do? He won one Super Bowl and had a memorable chin. 1
row_33 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Logic said: What do I care? He pretty much invented the modern NFL passing game. To my mind, that's a contribution worthy of Hall of Fame inclusion. I'm not alone in this thought. Just about every NFL coach agrees that he absolutely ought to be in the Hall of Fame. Here's an article wherein Belichick talks about the ongoing influence of Coryell on the NFL passing game, and how his coaching tree and playbook continues to this day.https://www.boston.com/sports/extra-points/2010/07/02/remembering_don I mean...what did Bill Cowher do? He won one Super Bowl and had a memorable chin. if you don't care, then why would anyone else care? okay, that's two hot takes, got a third?
Logic Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 1 minute ago, row_33 said: if you don't care, then why would anyone else care? okay, that's two hot takes, got a third? What exactly are you on about, bro? I've explained exactly why I think Coryell should be in the Hall. You disagree. That's fine. Not sure what's got your panties in a bunch.
hjnick Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 Pretty simple. The NFL in it's 100 year glory wanted to have coaches on each of the NFL pregame shows to get into the hall. They wanted it very open and for everyone to see. Basically a big NFL commercial in the middle of a pregame show.
row_33 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 1 minute ago, hjnick said: Pretty simple. The NFL in it's 100 year glory wanted to have coaches on each of the NFL pregame shows to get into the hall. They wanted it very open and for everyone to see. Basically a big NFL commercial in the middle of a pregame show. it certainly helps, but the greats get in even without a panel show
hjnick Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 25 minutes ago, row_33 said: it certainly helps, but the greats get in even without a panel show To be honest with you, I have no clue if Flores belongs in the hall, or jimmy, or cowher. All were great coaches in my opinion, but I think the reason why jimmy and cowher were chosen over the others is bc it was a publicity stunt for NFL 100. Which BTW worked out very well for the NFL. The surprise on their faces and their speechlessness was very heart tugging.
Gugny Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Bferra13 said: Cowgals and Squealers are in that NFL royalty club that, to some extent, gets special privileges. Both make me want to puke. Why would you give such childish nicknames to two storied franchises with such rich, winning histories?
row_33 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 15 minutes ago, hjnick said: To be honest with you, I have no clue if Flores belongs in the hall, or jimmy, or cowher. All were great coaches in my opinion, but I think the reason why jimmy and cowher were chosen over the others is bc it was a publicity stunt for NFL 100. Which BTW worked out very well for the NFL. The surprise on their faces and their speechlessness was very heart tugging. if he gets in, fine with me if he doesn't, fine with me the NFL is selling something, you might find it is less appealing as the years go by, you may not.... 2
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