section122 Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, Foxx said: took me quite awhile to find the actual voter numbers from '16 (stupid delegate reporting only on most sites (wonder why that is)). in '16 they had a turnout of 84k voters, so it appears that the numbers are on par with the last election caucus. again though, with the DNC/MSM fever of #orangemanbad, one would think that the turnout would be much higher. and if one were to compare these numbers to the turnout to elect Obama and shun the Bushista era, the numbers are way down, in the neighborhood of 30%. personally, i just don't see the MSM narrative of there being this massive voter sentiment to unseat Trump as ringing anywhere near being true. rather it is just their made up fantasy. Nevada Democratic caucus turnout lower than in 2008 That article.is from 2016. That's where the down 30% number is. 2008 is the record and what i have seen says they expect the numbers to be close to that. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/2/23/21149443/nevada-caucuses-2020-turnout-record
Foxx Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, section122 said: That article.is from 2016. That's where the down 30% number is. 2008 is the record and what i have seen says they expect the numbers to be close to that. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/2/23/21149443/nevada-caucuses-2020-turnout-record yes, exactly... the article is from 2016. which buttresses my contention that this years totals will be along the same lines of '16... down 30% from '08. however, we shall see what the final numbers are in the days ahead. Edited February 23, 2020 by Foxx
Koko78 Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 2 hours ago, section122 said: This is exactly what so many here are doing about Bernie. I honestly can't believe the pearl clutching throughout this forum about Bernie and how he will bring death to America. People are comparing him getting elected to living is east germany during the cold war! Quite literally no one is doing that here. 3
transplantbillsfan Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 12 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: Neither does Trump... Bernie isn’t hitler — no one seriously argues that. But he absolutely is a communist. Saying it is so does not make it so. He's not, but this very argument to inevitability be used in the upcoming months--and already being used--is why Sanders remains my last choice as the nominee.
Deranged Rhino Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 Just now, transplantbillsfan said: Saying it is so does not make it so. He's not, but this very argument to inevitability be used in the upcoming months--and already being used--is why Sanders remains my last choice as the nominee. Saying he's not, despite all facts and evidence (and plans/agendas/public statements) he's made to the contrary does not make it so. He's pushing the Green New Deal (that's communist) He praised the USSR, Cuba and Venezula He honeymooned in the USSR and praised their bread lines Bernie is a communist. It's not even debatable unless you don't understand what communism is. 1
section122 Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 39 minutes ago, Koko78 said: Quite literally no one is doing that here. See below... 15 hours ago, RochesterRob said: Voters under 40 are that way because the Cold War and what came before it barely gets a mention in school. When it does get mentioned it is in the context of the failings of capitalism. The worst part is the people that had to live behind the Iron Curtain at its most repressive time are no longer around to give first hand testimony. I recall letters sent to a relative here in NY from her sister in E Germany when I was very young. Three pages of text reduced to an opening, brief mention of the weather, and a closing. Everything else was blackened out to the point of being not readable in the least. The NY relative had lived in the aftermath of WWI in Central Europe and was well acquainted with the concept of not drawing attention to one's self. I wish those letters were still around but I don't know whatever happened to them after the relative passed. 15 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: I went to Czechoslovakia and Poland back when they were communist. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, good about living under communist rule. The dogs and machine guns patrolling the tracks and streets, the shortages of food, clothing, basic hygiene needs... simply horrible. Imagine a city like Krakow having one (old) car on the main road. A family of four, five assigned a “house” (apartment) with two rooms. If you had connections, you might also have a bathroom. Anyone who feels there is anything redeeming about communism (or socialism) needs their head examined. 4 hours ago, KRC said: Ditto what you said. I was in East Germany and East Berlin before the wall came down. Why anyone would purposely want to live under those conditions is mind boggling. I missed the post comparing Sanders to Stalin. The us will not become east germany or russia during the cold war if Bernie gets elected. We already have many socialist programs in place that benefit a great deal of people. Pushing for expansion of or addition to doesn't make Bernie a communist. Going back to the mirroring Trump in 16. Wasn't he a racist, bigot, xenophobe, etc? Didn't people laugh then and laugh now about those claims? Why the hyperbole?
Deranged Rhino Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 Just now, section122 said: We already have many socialist programs in place that benefit a great deal of people. Pushing for expansion of or addition to doesn't make Bernie a communist. The Green New Deal requires the state to take control of three of the biggest industries in the world (Transportation/travel, construction, and health care)... That's not an expansion of social programs, it's a complete undoing of our economic model in favor of -- a communistic one. The GND is his central plank. He's pushing for communism in this country, he's just being dishonest about the labels. Like he's dishonest about his label as a democrat. 1 1
section122 Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Saying he's not, despite all facts and evidence (and plans/agendas/public statements) he's made to the contrary does not make it so. He's pushing the Green New Deal (that's communist) He praised the USSR, Cuba and Venezula He honeymooned in the USSR and praised their bread lines Bernie is a communist. It's not even debatable unless you don't understand what communism is. Ah yes the green new deal. Invented and created by the famous Communist FDR. Complimenting Russia? Has Trump not complimented them as well? Honeymooned in Russia? Trump Tower Moscow? 1
Deranged Rhino Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 Acknowledging that isn't fearmongering. It's honesty. Just now, section122 said: Ah yes the green new deal. Invented and created by the famous Communist FDR. Complimenting Russia? Has Trump not complimented them as well? Honeymooned in Russia? Trump Tower Moscow? Honeymooned in the USSR at the peak of the cold war. Difference, 122 (Russia is not the USSR)
Buffalo_Gal Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, section122 said: See below... I missed the post comparing Sanders to Stalin. The us will not become east germany or russia during the cold war if Bernie gets elected. We already have many socialist programs in place that benefit a great deal of people. Pushing for expansion of or addition to doesn't make Bernie a communist. Going back to the mirroring Trump in 16. Wasn't he a racist, bigot, xenophobe, etc? Didn't people laugh then and laugh now about those claims? Why the hyperbole? That is pearl clutching? That is some extrapolation. 1 1 1
Nanker Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 5 hours ago, RochesterRob said: Once in a while an indication of the conditions got by the censors. One time something was written about not being able to keep weight on. Had the two individuals never known each other personally the statement about weight would only be taken as an observation about the person. But having grown up together as sisters the US relative knew it would be very uncharacteristic of the other to comment about her weight without it meaning more. A good book on the subject is Nina Wilmer's "Forty Autumns: A Family's Story of Courage and Survival on Both Sides of the Berlin Wall." It chronicles a forty year history of their family, one of which escaped to the West. It talks about the fear they all had of the Stazi - who were worse than the Russian's KGB. 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: First you were certain Biden would be the one to end Trump — then he cratered like I promised he would. Then it was Mayor Pete and Warren you swore would be the end of Trump — then they both cratered as I promised they would. Now it’s Sanders and the 18-26 year old demo who are going to turn out (in numbers they’ve never ever turned out before) who will end Trump — but, like your other false hopes, this will be dashed too. Might want to get used to your new avatar my friend. You’re in for a loooong 5 years. ...he's as a viable contributor here as he is on the football side as he was on BBMB......YAWN..........Fisher Price wi fi strikes again..... Edited February 23, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy 1
snafu Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Tiberius said: So are autocracies, go live in Russia Sanders can't turn us into a communist nation, but Trump is sure smashing up the republic, The Russian autocracy it the product of failed communism. Can you explain in what manner Trump is smashing up the republic? It’s hysterical statements and beliefs like this (ALWAYS coming from people like you who simply hate the person) that would lead you to try convincing yourself that electing Bernie Sanders is even remotely a good idea. Get a grip on your derangement for ten seconds and you’ll realize that. Just two days ago you were anti-Sanders, and you know why. He’s a class- pandering commie and bad for our country in insidious ways that you seem to want to ignore. If it isn’t Bernie who’s going to make us full-blown socialist/communists, then it will be whomever follows him — and you know that, too. Get over yourself and your hatred of Trump and go nominate a Democrat who’s ACTUALLY A DEMOCRAT. This goes for @transplantbillsfan, too. Young voters like Bernie because he’s authentic.. Big deal. Being an authentic communist isn’t any good reason to vote for him. Getting promised free things without being told that you’d still need to work is dishonest. Promising Medicare for all while dodging almost every single question as to how he’d pay for it is dishonest. Once Bernie has to explain these things, it won’t go well for his prospects of winning. Trump has a very good chance at losing this election, but I don’t think he’s going to lose to Bernie. You and your fellow Democrat (or anti-Trump) voters should really get your act together. And @Doc Brown — checks and balances aren’t the point here with Sanders. The point is that electing him results in the actual legitimization of the notion that whatever social safety programs we already have in place should be expanded. I know I’m going all slippery slope here, but look into the future. Look into what a wealth tax would encompass and how easily it could be expanded; and how easily it will divide people by class; and how easily it will be adopted at State tax levels. I don’t have the means to be worried about the wealth tax today, and I probably won’t ever need to. But the thresholds can always be adjusted in ways you and I wouldn’t expect to be acceptable today. Look at countries that had wealth taxes and abandoned them and why. Why should we even be talking about it when it’s been shown to be an unwieldy failure? It’s a power grab from individuals and State and local governments. Edited February 23, 2020 by snafu 1 1
snafu Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 3 hours ago, section122 said: He isn't going to bring communism to America. If you believe in America then you believe in the system of checks and balances that has worked for over 200 years. If you think a guy can come in and destroy the country in 4 years you sound like the dems in 2016. Even that would only apply if he was this evil red caricature you have all lapped up from the media. Again, I know I’m slippery-sloping, but consider that health insurance was governed by states until ACA came around and started us down the road toward a Federally administered program. Sounded innocent at the time, yeah? Now it’s almost a given that states are being taken out of the equation. Bernie’s Medicare for all is the next step in the progression. Wealth tax is the next step in the progression. Federally run free education (probably with Federally approved curricula) is the next step in the progression. You’re right, Bernie isn’t taking us to communism in 4 years. That’s not his goal or purpose. He wants our country to be communist some day — whether he’s on this Earth to witness it really doesn’t seem to matter to him. 1
transplantbillsfan Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 15 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: I went to Czechoslovakia and Poland back when they were communist. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, good about living under communist rule. The dogs and machine guns patrolling the tracks and streets, the shortages of food, clothing, basic hygiene needs... simply horrible. Imagine a city like Krakow having one (old) car on the main road. A family of four, five assigned a “house” (apartment) with two rooms. If you had connections, you might also have a bathroom. Anyone who feels there is anything redeeming about communism (or socialism) needs their head examined. 5 hours ago, RochesterRob said: Once in a while an indication of the conditions got by the censors. One time something was written about not being able to keep weight on. Had the two individuals never known each other personally the statement about weight would only be taken as an observation about the person. But having grown up together as sisters the US relative knew it would be very uncharacteristic of the other to comment about her weight without it meaning more. 5 hours ago, RochesterRob said: Which has nothing to do with what I am talking about. A communist nation can generate economic output and still be a crappy place to live. If you believe in communism then go find a communist country to live in. 4 hours ago, KRC said: Ditto what you said. I was in East Germany and East Berlin before the wall came down. Why anyone would purposely want to live under those conditions is mind boggling. It's truly sad that your belief is that electing Bernie will lead us down the path of having dogs and machine guns patrolling the streets, food shortages (this is likely coming anyway, not because of Communism), basic hygiene needs (though already here in so many ways), not having private property anymore, Dictators (though we have a guy trying to get there in the White House right now), Censors (Though we have a guy trying his damndest to find ways to implement these right now), etc. Bernie as President does not make us East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia or Venezuela. He's a Democratic Socialist, NOT a communist... they simply aren't the same, ESPECIALLY when put into practice. If you're desperate for comparison then at least use more apt comparisons like Finland, Sweden or Denmark rather than East Germany, Poland and Czechoslovakia. And those better comparisons are consistently some of the happiest countries on the planet.
Deranged Rhino Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: He's a Democratic Socialist, NOT a communist... they simply aren't the same, ESPECIALLY when put into practice. If you're desperate for comparison then at least use more apt comparisons like Finland, Sweden or Denmark rather than East Germany, Poland and Czechoslovakia. And those better comparisons are consistently some of the happiest countries on the planet. And those countries are not socialist — they’re free market capitalistic countries.
Buffalo_Gal Posted February 23, 2020 Posted February 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said: It's truly sad that your belief is that electing Bernie will lead us down the path of having dogs and machine guns patrolling the streets, food shortages (this is likely coming anyway, not because of Communism), basic hygiene needs (though already here in so many ways), not having private property anymore, Dictators (though we have a guy trying to get there in the White House right now), Censors (Though we have a guy trying his damndest to find ways to implement these right now), etc. Bernie as President does not make us East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia or Venezuela. He's a Democratic Socialist, NOT a communist... they simply aren't the same, ESPECIALLY when put into practice. If you're desperate for comparison then at least use more apt comparisons like Finland, Sweden or Denmark rather than East Germany, Poland and Czechoslovakia. And those better comparisons are consistently some of the happiest countries on the planet. Communism, which you are cheering for, is ugly, inhumane, soul crushing, and horrifying. Bernie is a ***** communist, and anyone trying to pretty it up is lying to themselves, and others. The only thing “sad” is the stupidity of some Americans voting for this commie hustler. 2
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