Tag for Phillips?

[auburnbillsbacker]

6 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Something that jut occurred to me as I was looking at the patriots draft picks .. if we can sign him to a reasonable deal great .. but if the price gets too high .. we will end up with a nice compensatory draft pick. The smart teams have been taking advantage of this system for years. Let a guy walk for high money .. don't pay the money and get a draft pick on a cheap contract for  nothing. The not so smart teams overpay and get into cap hell .. looking at you Rams. let's be a smart team.

You dont get comp picks when you have 90 million to spend in free agency.  If you franchise tag him then extend players you might get a comp pick for him when he leaves a year from now.

[stuvian]

as happy as i am to see one of our own outplay his contract I am inclined to see this as a product of Clappy's coaching rather than us unearthing the next Reggie White

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Another Houston guy to pair with Ed. I like it.

We'll still be spending $15.5M+/year on another "rotational" DT like a lot of fans here are opposed to.

that guy is a star.  Imo

[CorkScrewHill]

3 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

You dont get comp picks when you have 90 million to spend in free agency.  If you franchise tag him then extend players you might get a comp pick for him when he leaves a year from now.

Well you may be right .. but it really depends on how much of the 90 mil they spend on resigning their guys and how much they spend on other people’s FA

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 2/14/2020 at 10:28 AM, DrDawkinstein said:

Our entire DL "splits time". Are you saying we should never sign a DL star since they'll always be in rotation? Where better to invest than in the trenches? We still have plenty of money to make this a better/deeper team even with that theoretical signing.

 

I think what's being said is that we don't assess Phillips as a DL star; we assess him as a very talented DL contributor who would need to develop his run D to become that thing.

 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

The more I think about the more I am fine with it.

What I imagine the bills would like is a long term deal sub 10 million, phillips I imagine wants 12 plus long term

 

The bills have the next 2 years to go all in before having to figure out a ton of expiring rookie deals, if they believe Phillips is perfect for the team and settles the DT position. They might be fine over paying a few million for one season, see if harry returns healthy and re set next off season

 

Also in my opinion the bills negotiating position strengthens when he tests the market. As I believe the bills guarenteed money portion of any contract they offer will be very competitive with offers he gets from other teams

Edited February 16, 2020 by Cheektowaga Chad

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 2/14/2020 at 5:04 PM, without a drought said:

$15.5 mil seems like a lot for a rotational player who has had 1 good season in his 5 year career. Maybe he will repeat the performance, but the odds aren't exactly in his favor.

 

The real problem in overpaying a player is the "Diner while Dining at Crewe" phenomenon -

 

A Diner while dining at Crewe,

Found quite a large Rat in his stew,

Said the waiter, "Don't shout!

And wave it about,

Or the rest will be wanting one too."

 

If you overpay Phillips for your value on him, everybody else in the team who is negotiating contract turns and says "I want that too"

[thebandit27]

On 2/14/2020 at 1:47 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Another Houston guy to pair with Ed. I like it.

We'll still be spending $15.5M+/year on another "rotational" DT like a lot of fans here are opposed to.

He’s from Mississippi?

[NoSaint]

On 2/14/2020 at 10:28 AM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Our entire DL "splits time". Are you saying we should never sign a DL star since they'll always be in rotation? Where better to invest than in the trenches? We still have plenty of money to make this a better/deeper team even with that theoretical signing.

 

If we were in a different cap situation, I'd agree with you. The money could be better spent elsewhere. But we have a ton of cash to spend this year. Whether it's a big, 1-year Franchise Tag deal, or a more team-friendly long term deal. We have the ability to make that deal and still have money.

 

We have our QB on a rookie deal. We control Tre's money for 2 more years. Now is the time to make such splurges in order to "win now" while that window is open.

 

I mean, I think he’s just saying get a $5m guy and a $10m pass catcher 

 

or even a $5m guy, a $5m back, and a $5m upgrade elsewhere 

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

The real problem in overpaying a player is the "Diner while Dining at Crewe" phenomenon -

 

A Diner while dining at Crewe,

Found quite a large Rat in his stew,

Said the waiter, "Don't shout!

And wave it about,

Or the rest will be wanting one too."

 

If you overpay Phillips for your value on him, everybody else in the team who is negotiating contract turns and says "I want that too"

What?

 

Teams overpay free agents or impending free agents all the time. We paid Morse a ton, is Dawkins going to hold out? We paid John Brown quite a bit, is Isaiah McKenzie demanding “that too?”

 

That’s an argument that is not supported at all in the modern NFL.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

What?

 

Teams overpay free agents or impending free agents all the time. We paid Morse a ton, is Dawkins going to hold out? We paid John Brown quite a bit, is Isaiah McKenzie demanding “that too?”

 

That’s an argument that is not supported at all in the modern NFL.

To me, it would be more like tagging Isaiah McKenzie and having John Brown go “uhhhh....”

 

Sounds like we gotta just disagree

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

He’s from Mississippi?

 

Ah, he was born in Houston but went to Miss St. The article I saw read like he "was a draft pick from Houston".

45 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I mean, I think he’s just saying get a $5m guy and a $10m pass catcher 

 

or even a $5m guy, a $5m back, and a $5m upgrade elsewhere 

 

And just sit on the other $70M in cap? Nah, go get $10M guys (who are worth it) and add some real talent to the team.

[BringBackOrton]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

To me, it would be more like tagging Isaiah McKenzie and having John Brown go “uhhhh....”

 

Sounds like we gotta just disagree

What defensive tackle is eligible for extension? Star just took a pay cut, and Phillips and Oliver are on rookie deals. None of those 3 had as many sacks as JP did last year. He arguably outperformed all of them. And Harrison Phillips coming off an ACL tear is gonna say “uhhh” if Jordan gets paid?

 

It’s just one of those things that sounds plausible but does not hold up past a cursory examination.

[BarleyNY]

On 2/14/2020 at 12:41 PM, letsgoteam said:

Plus keep in mind that there is no cap roll over for next year. (Right? Because of the CBA ending)

 

If that is the case, spend away (in a constructive, conscience manner). Leave no dollar unspent.

Once a new CBA is agreed to there will be rollover to 2021.  No way does an agreement happen without that.  

[NoSaint]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ah, he was born in Houston but went to Miss St. The article I saw read like he "was a draft pick from Houston".

 

And just sit on the other $70M in cap? Nah, go get $10M guys (who are worth it) and add some real talent to the team.

I hope I’m clear in wanting to spend every penny and then a few on top. Just think we could terribly overspend on a comparable DT and still come out cheaper and able to add more elsewhere. Tagging Phillips wouldn’t terribly upset me but I think we could do better

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

12 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I hope I’m clear in wanting to spend every penny and then a few on top. Just think we could terribly overspend on a comparable DT and still come out cheaper and able to add more elsewhere. Tagging Phillips wouldn’t terribly upset me but I think we could do better

 

 

...probably dead wrong, but I don't see McBeane spending money like a drunken sailor for the sake of "spending it all"......he's honed his skills as a value shopper IMO, structuring deals that don't end up in cap hell.....he'll also focus on extending his own that are worthy IMO.....

[NoSaint]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...probably dead wrong, but I don't see McBeane spending money like a drunken sailor for the sake of "spending it all"......he's honed his skills as a value shopper IMO, structuring deals that don't end up in cap hell.....he'll also focus on extending his own that are worthy IMO.....

I suspect he will spend more than many think but less than he could. 
 

And he could spend it all without cap hell.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I suspect he will spend more than many think but less than he could. 
 

And he could spend it all without cap hell.

 

...pretty fair assessment.......could see the "deal categories" as follows:

 

A. Cheap SOB and a lowball offer.

B. Sounds like a fair and reasonable offer.

C. WTF? Are you kidding me? Broke the bank for HIM?

 

....stay tuned............

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

What defensive tackle is eligible for extension? Star just took a pay cut, and Phillips and Oliver are on rookie deals. None of those 3 had as many sacks as JP did last year. He arguably outperformed all of them. And Harrison Phillips coming off an ACL tear is gonna say “uhhh” if Jordan gets paid?

 

It’s just one of those things that sounds plausible but does not hold up past a cursory examination.

 

Well, we already established that we're just going to disagree, but I'd like to note that I did not mention the rookie deal guys or Harrison Phillips. 

 

My analogy was "To me, it would be more like tagging Isaiah McKenzie and having John Brown go “uhhhh....”

The analogy is not exact, but both McKenzie and Phillips are free agents.  McKenzie has been a valued contributor with sweeps and slants, but he's far from a polished complete receiver.  If McKenzie were to be franchised, or even paid around the same as Brown (who is like the 28th paid WR for AAV currently) I would think Brown be "uhhhhh....."

 

Sacks are only a part of the expectations of a DT in McDermott and Frazier's defense.  Phillips has been a valued contributor for his penetrating pass D but has not always maintained gap integrity against the rush.  I'm sure the guy playing next to him knows that.  If Phillips gets franchised and paid like a top 5 DT, the guy who just took a paycut could well be like "uhhhhh...." 

 

Making a guy an offer that's well above his value to the team is probably not a good long-term overall strategy, just because it's a cap-flush year.

 

Jordan Phillips is a fine player and I like him.  I have faith in Beane on defense.  I believe he will make a fair offer appropriate for Phillips value in McD's scheme and where they see him as a player.  I think he will also pursue players he thinks are potential upgrades for similar or slightly more money.  I don't think he will be looking at sack numbers to determine that, but I think he recognizes that other teams may well be looking more heavily at sack numbers and may make Phillips a sweeter offer than he's prepared to extend.

 

 

 

 

[Lurker]

Phillips will probably find his value around the league is a lot lower than he thinks.  At that point, he may opt for a 1-year "prove it again" type contract that might be affordable and another good rotational bridge with Oliver...