Big Turk Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 I would say the chance is as close to ZERO without actually being zero as you can get. There is no way they franchise Phillips. They are already paying big money to 2 DT's they cannot afford to pay a huge percentage of their cap to that position.
DrDawkinstein Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 28 minutes ago, matter2003 said: I would say the chance is as close to ZERO without actually being zero as you can get. There is no way they franchise Phillips. They are already paying big money to 2 DT's they cannot afford to pay a huge percentage of their cap to that position. Who is that? 1
HOUSE Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) On 2/12/2020 at 2:54 PM, DrDawkinstein said: The 2019 Tag Number for DTs was $15,209,000. Just putting that out there for easy reference. Edited February 13, 2020 by HOUSE 4
Canadian Bills Fan Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 On 2/12/2020 at 2:54 PM, DrDawkinstein said: The 2019 Tag Number for DTs was $15,209,000. Just putting that out there for easy reference. Well that ends this discussion then
Buddo Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 56 minutes ago, Canadian Bills Fan said: Well that ends this discussion then I doubt it does, but it should. 1
FireChans Posted February 13, 2020 Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, matter2003 said: I would say the chance is as close to ZERO without actually being zero as you can get. There is no way they franchise Phillips. They are already paying big money to 2 DT's they cannot afford to pay a huge percentage of their cap to that position. 1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said: Who is that? Cmon man, haven’t you heard that cost controlled rookie deals are also big money?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) Who is Joe DiBiase of WGR and what credence does he have? https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/jordan-phillips-is-perfect-for-the-franchise-tag "After thinking about the idea more and more, it actually makes sense. A lot of sense. In fact, the Bills would probably be smart to franchise tag Phillips, which would cost them $15.5 million on the cap. In no way am I saying that I think Phillips is a $15.5 million player. He had 9.5 sacks last season, yes. He's a better all around defensive tackle than Star Lotulelei, yes. However, Phillips struggled in run defense this past season. He's a great penetrator up the middle, but there's a reason he only received a grade of 53.6 from Pro Football Focus and didn't crack their top-100 free agents for this offseason. The idea of franchise tagging Phillips has nothing to do with the $15.5 million. It has everything to do with it only being for one year. The worst thing I believe the Bills could do is sign Phillips to a multi-year extension. By 2021, the Bills will have to give out new deals to cornerback Tre'Davious White, left tackle Dion Dawkins, linebacker Matt Milano, and even safety Jordan Poyer if they want to keep him around. A multi-year deal for Phillips would stretch into a time period where the Bills have to pay all those guys, and possibly quarterback Josh Allen and linebacker Tremaine Edmunds too. Honestly, it would be better for the Bills to pay Phillips $15.5 million for this season, rather than a three-year deal worth $24 million. It's more money per-year no doubt, but it doesn't threaten their ability to sign their own in the future. The Bills will likely want to do some other things this offseason, potentially big things. They have the third most cap space in the NFL, going into the spring at just under $82 million in space. Are they really going to use all of that? Even if Beane hadn't been careful managing the cap over the last few years, I'd tell you they're not going to find $82 million worth of free agents and draft picks to come here in one offseason. Why not use cap space on Phillips that you won't use otherwise? " He's not making a lot of sense to me. Anyone else? Edited February 14, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan Fix formatting just for Augie.
Augie Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 30 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Who is Joe DiBiase of WGR and what credence does he have? https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/jordan-phillips-is-perfect-for-the-franchise-tag "After thinking about the idea more and more, it actually makes sense. A lot of sense. In fact, the Bills would probably be smart to franchise tag Phillips, which would cost them $15.5 million on the cap. In no way am I saying that I think Phillips is a $15.5 million player. He had 9.5 sacks last season, yes. He's a better all around defensive tackle than Star Lotulelei, yes. However, Phillips struggled in run defense this past season. He's a great penetrator up the middle, but there's a reason he only received a grade of 53.6 from Pro Football Focus and didn't crack their top-100 free agents for this offseason. The idea of franchise tagging Phillips has nothing to do with the $15.5 million. It has everything to do with it only being for one year. The worst thing I believe the Bills could do is sign Phillips to a multi-year extension. By 2021, the Bills will have to give out new deals to cornerback Tre'Davious White, left tackle Dion Dawkins, linebacker Matt Milano, and even safety Jordan Poyer if they want to keep him around. A multi-year deal for Phillips would stretch into a time period where the Bills have to pay all those guys, and possibly quarterback Josh Allen and linebacker Tremaine Edmunds too. Honestly, it would be better for the Bills to pay Phillips $15.5 million for this season, rather than a three-year deal worth $24 million. It's more money per-year no doubt, but it doesn't threaten their ability to sign their own in the future. The Bills will likely want to do some other things this offseason, potentially big things. They have the third most cap space in the NFL, going into the spring at just under $82 million in space. Are they really going to use all of that? Even if Beane hadn't been careful managing the cap over the last few years, I'd tell you they're not going to find $82 million worth of free agents and draft picks to come here in one offseason. Why not use cap space on Phillips that you won't use otherwise? " He's not making a lot of sense to me. Anyone else? Paragraphs are your friend. That’s my take away. 1
BringBackOrton Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 33 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Who is Joe DiBiase of WGR and what credence does he have? https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/jordan-phillips-is-perfect-for-the-franchise-tag "After thinking about the idea more and more, it actually makes sense. A lot of sense. In fact, the Bills would probably be smart to franchise tag Phillips, which would cost them $15.5 million on the cap. In no way am I saying that I think Phillips is a $15.5 million player. He had 9.5 sacks last season, yes. He's a better all around defensive tackle than Star Lotulelei, yes. However, Phillips struggled in run defense this past season. He's a great penetrator up the middle, but there's a reason he only received a grade of 53.6 from Pro Football Focus and didn't crack their top-100 free agents for this offseason. The idea of franchise tagging Phillips has nothing to do with the $15.5 million. It has everything to do with it only being for one year. The worst thing I believe the Bills could do is sign Phillips to a multi-year extension. By 2021, the Bills will have to give out new deals to cornerback Tre'Davious White, left tackle Dion Dawkins, linebacker Matt Milano, and even safety Jordan Poyer if they want to keep him around. A multi-year deal for Phillips would stretch into a time period where the Bills have to pay all those guys, and possibly quarterback Josh Allen and linebacker Tremaine Edmunds too. Honestly, it would be better for the Bills to pay Phillips $15.5 million for this season, rather than a three-year deal worth $24 million. It's more money per-year no doubt, but it doesn't threaten their ability to sign their own in the future. The Bills will likely want to do some other things this offseason, potentially big things. They have the third most cap space in the NFL, going into the spring at just under $82 million in space. Are they really going to use all of that? Even if Beane hadn't been careful managing the cap over the last few years, I'd tell you they're not going to find $82 million worth of free agents and draft picks to come here in one offseason. Why not use cap space on Phillips that you won't use otherwise? " He's not making a lot of sense to me. Anyone else? It’s a decent point, if not unorthodox
Turk71 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 (edited) The 9 sacks look real good but he is a liability against the run, out of position or too easily moved. Basically an interior pass rusher and not an every down tackle imo. A team out there will overpay for those sacks, that seems almost certain. Some people seem to think that the Bills have a lot of cap to throw around and overpaying for Phillips' services is no big deal, I would much rather see that money used on top level talent, long term solutions at positions of need that take more time to develop draft picks. Edited February 14, 2020 by Turk71 1
Augie Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, Turk71 said: The 9 sacks look real good but he is a liability against the run, out of position or too easily moved. Basically an interior pass rusher and not an every down tackle imo. A team out there will overpay for those sacks, that seems almost certain. Some people seem to think that the Bills have a lot of cap to throw around and overpaying for Phillips' services is no big deal, I would much rather see that money used on top level talent, long term solutions at positions of need that take more time to develop draft picks. I’m sure fans of other teams will look at the sack numbers and want him. Watch more and realize it may not be a great investment. I’d love him back....but at the right price. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 33 minutes ago, Augie said: Paragraphs are your friend. That’s my take away. That would be my fault for the cut-n-paste method I used, not his 31 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: It’s a decent point, if not unorthodox How so? What I read him saying is we will need cap space in 3 years, so instead of saving cap to roll over, we should spend it on a guy he flat-out states is not a $15.5M player. If the guy is not a $15.5M player, why tag him for that? If he's a worthwhile player and we want to keep him, and he'd be willing to sign for $24M/3 years, why not do that instead? A deal can be structured in any kind of a way to front-load it and clear cap in the latter years. It seems like he's arguing to treat the cap like it's "Brewster's Millions" this season, giving it away on a player who he says is not worth that much because we won't spend it all - because in future years we'll need cap. But in that case why not roll over cap? 1 1
Turk71 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Augie said: I’m sure fans of other teams will look at the sack numbers and want him. Watch more and realize it may not be a great investment. I’d love him back....but at the right price. I don't think the right price caveat will be an option, but I wouldn't mind it either.
GreggTX Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 There's no question that he's earned a pay raise, but this is way more. Let's see him do it 2 years in a row first.
Big Turk Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 14 hours ago, FireChans said: Cmon man, haven’t you heard that cost controlled rookie deals are also big money? Yeah Ed Oliver is one of them...Star is the other...they are 2 of the highest paid DT's in the league even with Star's paycut. Cannot allocate another huge contract to a DT...that doesn't make any sense.
JMF2006 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 I will post this before I read all the comments posted in the thread. After reading the blurb from the BN article on the front page I say it does make sense with all the cap room they have now. Unless he is willing to take a 4x$8m deal the tag might be the way to go.
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 42 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Yeah Ed Oliver is one of them...Star is the other...they are 2 of the highest paid DT's in the league even with Star's paycut. Cannot allocate another huge contract to a DT...that doesn't make any sense. Ed Oliver is the 22nd ranked DT by pay. He makes less than half of what the #15 paid DT makes and 1/3 of what the top 5 DTs make. He is not "one of the highest paid DTs." https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/defensive-tackle/ 1
Thurman#1 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 44 minutes ago, matter2003 said: Yeah Ed Oliver is one of them...Star is the other...they are 2 of the highest paid DT's in the league even with Star's paycut. Cannot allocate another huge contract to a DT...that doesn't make any sense. Yeah, huge contract for Oliver. $4.9 M per year average. Def one "of the highest paid DT's in the league." How can they ever afford any other players?
gonzo1105 Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 I think I’d be more inclined to give him the transition tag at 12 million and if someone else offers big money then you let him go. The only way I would franchise him would be if I had the intention of trading him but I can’t see him going for more than a couple mid rounders
DrDawkinstein Posted February 14, 2020 Posted February 14, 2020 10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He's not making a lot of sense to me. Anyone else? Makes sense to me. We have the cap space and nothing else to spend it on (assuming a lot of the big names we covet in FA ultimately wont be available). Might as well spend it, and if it's only a 1 year deal, we get the cap space back next year. It works like rolling it over, except we get a talented player for a year instead of nothing. As long as the spend doesnt hinder us form signing other players for this year, then we might as well. 1 hour ago, matter2003 said: Yeah Ed Oliver is one of them...Star is the other...they are 2 of the highest paid DT's in the league even with Star's paycut. Cannot allocate another huge contract to a DT...that doesn't make any sense. The $15M Franchise Tag number is the average of the highest paid DTs. NONE of our DTs are making even close to that. We do not have high paid DTs.
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