Would you give our 2020 1st rd pick to the Lions for Kenny Golliday?

[soflabillsfan1]

13 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

I see. Yeah, this totally makes sense.

 

So McDermott was the DC and Beane the AGM for a team that gave a third year contract ... to a defensive player ... who happens to play the exact same position as Edmunds? In a McDermott defense, on a team GM'd by Beane?

 

And because it didn't happen to a guy drafted between 2014 and 2016, a set of years you picked specifically to try to minimize the number of hits ... you STILL want to pretend it's not a very decent possibility?

 

How funny that you didn't mention that part of my post.

 

You got one thing right, though. Pathetic indeed.

How are you still arguing this?  The argument is the Bills HAVE to sign Edmunds and Allen soon.  They don't.  Not even close.  They control both their rights for 3 more seasons.  They could choose to do so next offseason but it would be breaking a long running historical protocol.  No defensive player from the 2013-2016 draft, which includes a ton of All pro players, has signed a new deal after 3 years.   Those are some really bad odds for you. Again, the only reason they would do it is because it benefited the cap situation, which destroys the entire premise of the argument. So now you're reaching even more because the 1 time it has happened in the last 5 years is a team that Mcdermott and Beane were associated with.  That would mean you're comparing Luke Kuechly to Tremaine Edmunds.  Rookie defensive player of the year, DPOY in his 2nd season, and a two time 1st team all pro by his 3rd year.  Edmunds is not on Luke's level.  Edmunds just made his 1st pro bowl after an injury to Hightower.  Again, the Bills don't HAVE to do anything soon with Edmunds or Allen.  That's a fact.

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

 

You are continually making  excuses for the stupid offensive decisions the McDermott/Beane regime made in 2017-2018.  There really aren't any.  They demonstrated remarkable incompetence in their offensive personnel transactions, including hiring terrible offensive assistant coaches and poor draft decisions (more so in 2017), that suggested they were both completely clueless about offensive football, starting with not re-signing or trading away three NFL caliber WRs in 2017 and not replacing any of them with WRs good enough to play in the NFL much less start, until 2019.   

 

Furthermore, the Bills "cap hell" in 2018 was largely of McDermott/Beane's own making as they not only sent players packing without regard to cap implications as in dead cap space as well as the cost of replacing those players.   They also wasted cap space by trading for/signing FAs like Corey Coleman and AJ McCarron.  In McCarron's case, it seems that he signed with the Bills with the belief that he would get a legitimate shot at being the starter and felt that he didn't get a fair chance at doing so.

 

If the Bills didn't intend to have Allen playing early in his rookie season, then they should have kept Tyrod Taylor or brought in a FA QB better than McCarron to be the starter -- and they definitely should have brought in a better backup QB than Nathan Peterman.  They literally dithered for a month during the season after Peterman proved himself incompetent waiting for Derek Anderson to decide whether to come out of retirement as if he were the only back up QB available!  Moreover, they had no excuse for not hiring an experienced QB coach for their prize rookie.  David Culley's only experience as a QB coach had been a single football season 30 years before in a small collegiate program.

 

It was only in 2019 that the Bills FO started performing competently.  Beane and McDermott replaced most of the offensive assistants.  They added an experienced, dedicated QB coach for Allen.  Beane signed some decent OLers and WRs in FA.  They drafted better, too, on the offensive side of the ball.  My guess is that there was a significant change in the Bills organization, and that Beane was given more authority in 2019 than he had previously.   The resignation of "Mr Moneyball" Russ Brandon in the wake of a sexual harassment scandal in May, 2018, seems likely to be the change that allowed Beane/McDermott to demonstrate that they might actually know what they were doing.   In 2017-2018, the Bills personnel moves were depressingly similar to the ones made throughout Brandon's tenure first as the Bills defacto GM and then defacto owner between 2006-2013.

 

 

 

 

 

No, I really don't make excuses for the stupid decisions they've made. Which makes it easy on me because they simply haven't made very many. Some, though, and those are worth pointing out and criticizing.

 

But most of what you're calling mistakes are simply you not getting it.

 

A perfect example is when you say that the 2018 cap problem was mostly McDermott/Beane's fault, and again you completely miss the point. They were in very bad cap shape as far back as 2016. Whaley had been close to the cap and had put in place commitments that would've kept us there for several years down the line. Our 2016 cap looked like a cap for a team in the last year or two of a Super Bowl winner, and all for a team that only won seven games. Yes, Beane and McDermott's solution to that involved cutting a bunch of guys and accumulating a massive amount of dead cap. But what that dead cap was doing is moving money from future cap years and spending it all on 2018, exactly the moves necessary to create the huge cap surpluses we've seen the past two years.

 

I'm not guessing that they didn't want to start Allen that early, Beane said so in the post-season PC. And no they shouldn't have kept Tyrod, he was part of the cap problem left by Whaley, far too expensive for his production (has he managed to get a similar contract since then?) and on a rebuilding team that wasn't going to win that year anyway.

 

Yeah, the McCarron signing didn't work. Fair enough. But it's not as if they spent a lot of money on him. A mistake. Not one with major implications.

 

As for the Corey Coleman deal, oh yeah, huge mistake. Did you know that when they let him go on September 1st, before the season started, they had spent thousands of dollars on him? Thousands!!!!!!! I mean, they cut him before he collected a single game check, so his salary cap hit actually went up over the hundreds of dollars somewhere up into the thousands!!!! Holy Cow, ... he probably cost them less than one game's worth of a guy on a minimum rookie contract. Huge salary cap problem there. A perfect example of you identifying as a problem something that simply wasn't. The Coleman move cost them virtually nothing, they took a flier on him and when he wasn't producing they cut him with almost no effects.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I know what he said.... he also said it’s up to them to find upgrades which means spending their available cap room on some very good FA’s. 
 

They were in on trading for AJ Green before the Bengals shut it down so if he makes it to FA I’d wager the Bills highly pursue him.... I don’t think they are going to settle just on low-tier FAs, they’ll pursue a couple really solid FAs or vis trade who can be big contributors to this team AS STARTERS. 
 

I’m not expecting them to throw money at a guy like Amari Cooper, but I can see them adding guys in the middle to upper class of FAs such as Mario Addison and AJ Green with responsible but hefty contracts.... which has been my point all along. 

 

 

 

You know, you say you know what he said. But it's actually clear that you don't. He said "We probably won’t be spending at the deep end of the pool like we did last year (in free agency)," and you immediately assume that what he said implied that he in fact was going to be spending at the deep end of the pool in free agency. You hear what he said but because it differs from what you want you're not willing to believe it. Well, fine, you're clearly a smart guy but if you're not willing to u

 

You quote Beane saying, "he also said it’s up to them to find upgrades which means spending their available cap room on some very good FA’s." And you feel that him saying he needs to upgrade must mean spending on premium FAs only. Despite the numerous ways he's upgraded this team without ever bringing in a premium FA, and despite the fact that he had just said he wasn't going to do that?

 

Not much I can say to that. A guy so utterly bound by confirmation bias isn't going to listen to sense.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

How are you still arguing this?  The argument is the Bills HAVE to sign Edmunds and Allen soon.  They don't.  Not even close.  They control both their rights for 3 more seasons.  They could choose to do so next offseason but it would be breaking a long running historical protocol.  No defensive player from the 2013-2016 draft, which includes a ton of All pro players, has signed a new deal after 3 years.   Those are some really bad odds for you. Again, the only reason they would do it is because it benefited the cap situation, which destroys the entire premise of the argument. So now you're reaching even more because the 1 time it has happened in the last 5 years is a team that Mcdermott and Beane were associated with.  That would mean you're comparing Luke Kuechly to Tremaine Edmunds.  Rookie defensive player of the year, DPOY in his 2nd season, and a two time 1st team all pro by his 3rd year.  Edmunds is not on Luke's level.  Edmunds just made his 1st pro bowl after an injury to Hightower.  Again, the Bills don't HAVE to do anything soon with Edmunds or Allen.  That's a fact.

 

 

Hunh. What a surprise that you only argue the one I said I'm not interested in arguing. Again, if you want want to argue whether they have to do anything, go argue with someone who gives a *****.

 

And how funny that your whole big dumb argument about how there was no way they would ever re-sign Edmunds, the part I argued, has now disappeared. Replaced by a line or two about the fact that Edmunds isn't yet on Kuechly's level, which I wouldn't argue. He's not, yet. But Edmunds is a very very good player, particularly for his second year, and he is absolutely crucial to their plans for this defense, just as Kuechly was then. They could very easily decide to extend him after his third year.

 

Typical, though, of someone losing an argument. Abandon the losing part, never mention it again, and change the grounds of what you're arguing on and distract distract distract.

 

 

[JetsFan20]

In a deep WR class I don’t understand the logic of trading away significant draft capital for a guy who is going to require a major contract extension. 

 

Trust your scouting dept to be able to find the next Kenny Golloday in the 1-2nd round. 

[soflabillsfan1]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Hunh. What a surprise that you only argue the one I said I'm not interested in arguing. Again, if you want want to argue whether they have to do anything, go argue with someone who gives a *****.

 

And how funny that your whole big dumb argument about how there was no way they would ever re-sign Edmunds, the part I argued, has now disappeared. Replaced by a line or two about the fact that Edmunds isn't yet on Kuechly's level, which I wouldn't argue. He's not, yet. But Edmunds is a very very good player, particularly for his second year, and he is absolutely crucial to their plans for this defense, just as Kuechly was then. They could very easily decide to extend him after his third year.

 

Typical, though, of someone losing an argument. Abandon the losing part, never mention it again, and change the grounds of what you're arguing on and distract distract distract.

 

 

That is what I'm arguing. It's what the argument has been since the beginning.  Do the Bills have to sign Edmunds and Allen soon?  No, they do not.  End of story.  They might choose to resign Edmunds early, but it's not a 50/50 shot like you make it out to be.  It's actually a very small probability.  Care to put your money your money where your mouth is?  I doubt it. You've been wrong so many times over the years, I've lost count.  You've always stayed arrogant though, which is a testament to your consistency. 

Edited February 17, 2020 by soflabillsfan1

[Pokebball]

On 2/15/2020 at 6:24 PM, SoTier said:

 

 

When you give up a fortune in draft capital to move up to draft a first round QB, what higher "priorities" can there be than adding a WR when your team didn't have a single NFL starter caliber WR on the roster???? 

 

Oline on offense, and it wasn't even close.

[SoTier]

19 hours ago, Pokebball said:

Oline on offense, and it wasn't even close.

 

That's a valid priority but Beane didn't prioritize the OL either until 2019. The OL in 2017 was below average but serviceable but then Wood was forced into retirement by injury.  That wasn't on McDermott or Beane.  However, the Bills got rid of Incognito, which may have been partly on McDermott/Beane but it's not clear because of Incognito's mental issues.  Then the Bills traded away their best OLer, LT Cordy Glenn, in order to move up in the first round of the draft.   That's a competent C, a Pro Bowl LG, and an above average LT missing from the OL.  The Bills replaced them with backups, bottom feeder career backups, and practice squad refugees.   In the draft, the Bills only got around to drafting an OLer toward the end of the fifth round, Wyatt Teller.  Teller was traded away to Cleveland for a pair of Day 3 draft picks at the end of the 2019 preseason rather than cutting him.

 

In 2018, the Bills essentially had no plan for offense at all much less any priority for offense except to make a big splash by drafting  a QB high in the first round.  In fact, I would argue that 2018 was essentially a reprise of the Bills "offensive" plan of 2013 when Brandon and Whaley drafted EJ Manuel in order to excite the fan base.  The difference was that there were actually QBs in the 2018 draft who were worth drafting in the first round. 

 

[ehfeuh57]

I Like Golladay but lets not give up a 1st for a WR

 

especially after watching the XFL... WR's are everywhere

 

you need to draft big men with 1st round picks

[Billl]

Golladay has had a catch percentage between 56% and 59% every year of his career.  His production is the result of volume rather than efficiency.  116 targets last year resulted in only 65 catches.  Compare that to Diggs who had 63 catches on only 94 targets.

 

Golladay's TD # this year was exceptional, but that's an outlier this far in his career.  That one start notwithstanding, there's nothing particularly special about him.  He's a lower tier #1.  Diggs is a much better player.

[GoBills808]

37 minutes ago, Billl said:

Golladay has had a catch percentage between 56% and 59% every year of his career.  His production is the result of volume rather than efficiency.  116 targets last year resulted in only 65 catches.  Compare that to Diggs who had 63 catches on only 94 targets.

 

Golladay's TD # this year was exceptional, but that's an outlier this far in his career.  That one start notwithstanding, there's nothing particularly special about him.  He's a lower tier #1.  Diggs is a much better player.

I agree w/the bolded but that's it. Stafford was injured this season and Golladay suffered but he has elite size/speed/strength combo and solid hands. He's a complete wideout imo, right near that top tier of guys and is a legit WR1 on most teams. 

[SoTier]

IMO, the Bills desperately need a WR1 in 2020 and the chances of getting one in the draft who would be that from opening day is between slim and none.  At best, they could expect a WR taken #22 to eventually develop into a WR1.  Moreover, not only is the draft is much more a crapshoot than acquiring a top veteran, I'm an advocate of taking BPA over need.  I don't want to see the Bills take a WR with only second round talent at #22 because they need a WR and pass on a much better prospect at another position like OL, RB or DB.

 

Either trading for a WR like Golladay or Diggs or signing a top vet in FA works for me.  Acquire a top veteran WR and draft a promising one.  If the Bills are serious about building a perennial playoff contender, they have to put quality talent around their QB no matter who that QB is.  Look at what having top offensive talent did for both the Saints and the Chiefs when their starting QBs were injured and missed games early in the season.   

[ScorpionZero]

Of course we should, he has everything we need size and production. Just look at what lofton did for us in the 90's. Add a wideout like Reed in the draft, and a pass rusher in free agency and they can take the next step ro greatness. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by ScorpionZero