Would you give our 2020 1st rd pick to the Lions for Kenny Golliday?

[JohnBonhamRocks]

The draft is largely a crapshoot.

 

Yes to this trade unless OBD is 100% sure a WR: (i) is better than Golladay, and (ii) will be there at their pick or that they can trade to a position to pick him.

 

Golladay is a proven NFL WR who just put up back to back 1,000 yard seasons.

 

You happily roll w/ Golladay, Brown, & Beasley, and might even still add another 4-5 round WR. 

[Thurman#1]

54 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

The draft is largely a crapshoot.

 

Yes to this trade unless OBD is 100% sure a WR: (i) is better than Golladay, and (ii) will be there at their pick or that they can trade to a position to pick him.

 

Golladay is a proven NFL WR who just put up back to back 1,000 yard seasons.

 

You happily roll w/ Golladay, Brown, & Beasley, and might even still add another 4-5 round WR. 

 

 

 

To the extent that the draft is a crapshoot, free agency is too.

 

Plenty of FAs who'd been good on their last team don't do as well in a new system with new coaches and surroundings. Some do. But it's not as if FAs are a sure thing either.

 

You don't have to go back to Haynesworth, Osweiler, or David Boston's Chargers contract to find FAs who didn't live up to their pay. Jacoby Brissett, Sam Bradford to the Cards, Vontae Davis, for Pete's sake, or look at Nate Solder. Case Keenum Malcolm Butler, Sammy Watkins, who's been decent but nowhere near lived up to his contract ... it goes on and on.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Thurman#1

[soflabillsfan1]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

Look, first that's only a small part of the argument. And second, if you want to force the word "soon" to mean something it doesn't, fine, go ahead, whatever. Your business. But for most people, next year is soon. I won't bother continuing that argument, it's not worth another keystroke to me. But pretending that they might not sign Edmunds as soon as March 2021 is kidding yourself. They might not. Equally, they might not, but it's absolutely something they'll consider. Same with Tre' and Dawkins and the others who they can consider as early as next month. Just because a guy is under contract for longer doesn't mean it won't be economically sensible to extend him now. They've said it's their first priority to re-sign guys and maintain continuity, and to build their core through the draft.

 

The argument isn't "whether they have the ability to hypothetically give Golladay a new contract ..." It's whether they will, or maybe whether they would if he were available. It's whether that's the kind of move they intend to make. Look at their models and you see those teams making a move that big very infrequently, once every five years or so, roughly. Could this be the year? Maybe. I seriously doubt it with Golladay myself, even if he were available, not for the money he's likely to demand and the draft pick the Lions would likely demand.

 

 

Now lets look at some facts since your post is completely devoid of them.  You tell me that I'm "kidding myself" if I think the Bills won't resign Edmunds as early as next March, which would be after his 3rd year in the league.  Let's look at the 2014-2016 NFL drafts for historical reference.  Those players just finished their 4th, 5th and 6th seasons in the league.  In the 1st round of those drafts a total of 48 defensive players were drafted.  Do you know how many of them had their deals redone after 3 years?  ZERO.  NOT A SINGLE ONE.  So lets put the "Edmunds might get resigned next year" theory to bed.  It's not happening.  He is not getting resigned "soon"

 

Yes the argument is whether or not we can sign Golladay without breaking the young nucleus of the team.  That was the original argument.  I'm debating our financial ability to do so. I'm not debating Beane's methods or anything that's an opinion.  I'm debating the numbers.  I think we should grab a piece like him if he's available.  That's my opinion.  We have the financial ability to do so, that's a fact.

[Thurman#1]

On 2/14/2020 at 10:53 PM, ScottLaw said:

I didn’t say I think they’ll spend like sailors, I said I think you’ll see them add a couple somewhat splashy signings/trades like an AJ Green or Yannick or someone of their level.

 

 

Having gone back to listen to post season PC from last month, I noticed this gem:

 

 

"We probably won’t be spending at the deep end of the pool like we did last year (in free agency), It’s still up to us to find either pieces to compete with what we have or pieces that can upgrade. You can get guys that are minimum contract guys, guys that are low-tier, sort of middle of the road, those sometimes are as important or more important than those big-ticket items."   - Brandon Beane

 

 

Try to understand who this guy Beane is.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

21 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

To the extent that the draft is a crapshoot, free agency is too.

 

Plenty of FAs who'd been good on their last team don't do as well in a new system with new coaches and surroundings. Some do. But it's not as if FAs are a sure thing either.

 

You don't have to go back to Haynesworth, Osweiler, or David Boston's Chargers contract to find FAs who didn't live up to their pay. Jacoby Brissett, Sam Bradford to the Cards, Vontae Davis, for Pete's sake, or look at Nate Solder. Case Keenum Malcolm Butler, Sammy Watkins, who's been decent but nowhere near lived up to his contract ... it goes on and on.

 

True, FA is a crapshoot too to an extent. I agree. 

 

But the point I still would make is that Golladay just produced two 1,000 yard NFL seasons and no WR in this draft has taken a snap in the league yet.

[Thurman#1]

55 minutes ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

 

Yes the argument is whether or not we can sign Golladay without breaking the young nucleus of the team.  That was the original argument.  I'm debating our financial ability to do so. I'm not debating Beane's methods or anything that's an opinion.  I'm debating the numbers.  I think we should grab a piece like him if he's available.  That's my opinion.  We have the financial ability to do so, that's a fact.

 

 

 

 

 

If your argument is whether or not we can sign Golladay ... go talk to someone who cares enough to disagree. That's a wildly unimportant argument, one I'm not interested in. The argument introduced in this thread is whether we will or should.

 

Here's the title:

Would you give our 2020 1st rd pick to the Lions for Kenny Golliday?

 

Not "can we". Certainly, obviously, that was NOT the original argument as you claim.

 

But if you feel the need to argue that, go find someone interested. But don't bother replying to me. That argument's irrelevant, uninteresting and an attempt to derail the original argument.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

Now lets look at some facts since your post is completely devoid of them.  You tell me that I'm "kidding myself" if I think the Bills won't resign Edmunds as early as next March, which would be after his 3rd year in the league.  Let's look at the 2014-2016 NFL drafts for historical reference.  Those players just finished their 4th, 5th and 6th seasons in the league.  In the 1st round of those drafts a total of 48 defensive players were drafted.  Do you know how many of them had their deals redone after 3 years?  ZERO.  NOT A SINGLE ONE.  So lets put the "Edmunds might get resigned next year" theory to bed.  It's not happening.  He is not getting resigned "soon"

 

Is that right? Nobody from 2014 to 2016 re-signed after their first three years? Wow, you ought to call Derek Carr and tell him he doesn't exist. Oh, wait, you wanted to try to gerrymander him out of the discussion. Gotcha. But he's one of several cases when guys have been extended after three years. Better make the same call to Carson Wentz, though. Drafted in 2016, massive extension in the offseason of his third year. And Goff, same deal. Wow, three guys. Oh, gerrymandering again. It happened to three guys but you don't want to talk about them so you set up some conditions to exclude them.

 

Tyron Smith, drafted 2011 signed a massive eight-year extension in 2014. In July.

 

Travis Frederick, drafted in 2013, signed a massive six-year extension in 2016, in August.

 

Patrick Peterson, JJ Watt too. Oh, they're defense. How did you twist things to try to exclude them? Oh, yeah, only guys from 2014 to 2016 count. Hilarious!

 

Russell Wilson. K Jake Elliott. LS Rick Lovato. Darrelle Revis.

 

It's a real possibility it might happen to Mahomes this year, as this tweet shows: " Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt on Patrick Mahomes' contract: 'I don't want to say necessarily it has to be this offseason.' "

 

I could look and find more but the point is made. It's happened to defensive guys, guys in the first round and later, and weirdly even guys not drafted between 2014 and 2016.

 

Oh, wait, I had to check one more, and I was right!!!, It even happened to one middle linebacker. And you'll never ever guess who was the defensive coordinator for that guy, or who was the assistant General Manager. That's right, the year Luke Kuechly got his extension after three years, Sean McDermott was his DC and Brandon Beane was his Assistant GM!!!  Golly!

 

And it couldn't happen here? Nonsense!!  It happens, and saying it won't is willful ignorance. It could.

 

It's not common because only in a very limited set of circumstances would it make sense. The guy has to have proved himself very young as an outstanding player they want to keep around, there has to be a front office focused on re-signing their own talent early, it's more likely if the team has a lot of salary cap space and more likely when it's a team that doesn't want to sign premium FAs from other teams as a consistent policy. The coaching staff must be very secure, as a new regime might find the guy doesn’t fit what they want to do.

 

The Bills fit all those criteria. The FO has said re-signing their guys and maintaining continuity is a major priority for them. Doesn't mean it will happen, but it absolutely could.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Thurman#1

[soflabillsfan1]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Is that right? Nobody from 2014 to 2016 re-signed after their first three years? Wow, you ought to call Derek Carr and tell him he doesn't exist. Oh, wait, you wanted to try to gerrymander him out of the discussion. Gotcha. But he's one of several cases when guys have been extended after three years. Better make the same call to Carson Wentz, though. Drafted in 2016, massive extension in the offseason of his third year. And Goff, same deal. Wow, three guys. Oh, gerrymandering again. It happened to three guys but you don't want to talk about them so you set up some conditions to exclude them.

 

Tyron Smith, drafted 2011 signed a massive eight-year extension in 2014. In July.

 

Travis Frederick, drafted in 2013, signed a massive six-year extension in 2016, in August.

 

Patrick Peterson, JJ Watt too. Oh, they're defense. How did you twist things to try to exclude them? Oh, yeah, only guys from 2014 to 2016 count. Hilarious!

 

Russell Wilson. K Jake Elliott. LS Rick Lovato. Darrelle Revis.

 

It's a real possibility it might happen to Mahomes this year, as this tweet shows: " Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt on Patrick Mahomes' contract: 'I don't want to say necessarily it has to be this offseason.' "

 

I could look and find more but the point is made. It's happened to defensive guys, guys in the first round and later, and weirdly even guys not drafted between 2014 and 2016.

 

Oh, wait, I had to check one more, and I was right!!!, It even happened to one middle linebacker. And you'll never ever guess who was the defensive coordinator for that guy, or who was the assistant General Manager. That's right, the year Luke Kuechly got his extension after three years, Sean McDermott was his DC and Brandon Beane was his Assistant GM!!!  Golly!

 

And it couldn't happen here? Nonsense!!  It happens, and saying it won't is willful ignorance. It could.

 

It's not common because only in a very limited set of circumstances would it make sense. The guy has to have proved himself very young as an outstanding player they want to keep around, there has to be a front office focused on re-signing their own talent early, it's more likely if the team has a lot of salary cap space and more likely when it's a team that doesn't want to sign premium FAs from other teams as a consistent policy. The coaching staff must be very secure, as a new regime might find the guy doesn’t fit what they want to do.

 

The Bills fit all those criteria. The FO has said re-signing their guys and maintaining continuity is a major priority for them. Doesn't mean it will happen, but it absolutely could.

 

 

 

 

OMG, this is really pathetic.  I went back three years because these were the most recent drafts that pertained to the topic.  I also included only defensive players because Edmunds is  defensive player.  You start throwing in offensive players, quarterbacks and guys not even drafted in the 1st round or in a draft where the 5th year option was available.  Talk about some serious reaching.  A real new low for you.  Even when you do that, it's a extremely small number of players.  Especially defensive players.  So let's look at the data:  Zero players out of 48 defensive 1st rounders drafted between 2014-2016 got new deals after three years.  In 2013, ZERO defensive players out of 17 drafted in the 1st round got new deals after 3 years.  In 2012 1 defensive player drafted in the 1st round got a new deal after 3 years.  In 2011 2 out of the 16 defensive players drafted in the 1st round got new deals after 3 years.  So to summarize: 3% of defensive 1st round players players since the 2011 draft have received extensions after 3 years.  1 defensive 1st rounders since 2012 has gotten and extension after 3 years.  That's 1 player out of 82 defensive 1st rounders or 3 in 98 if you go nap to 2011 the first year of the 5th year option.  Those are some bad looking odds/trends.  Just walk away.

Edited February 15, 2020 by soflabillsfan1

[JerseyBills]

We definitely need to add another solid option(s) but how good is John Brown? Besides his size, he's a beast. High level route runner , elite speed and very good hands.

And How good can he be with another elite deep threat? 

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

OMG, this is really pathetic.  I went back three years because these were the most recent drafts that pertained to the topic.  I also included only defensive players because Edmunds is  defensive player.  You start throwing in offensive players, quarterbacks and guys not even drafted in the 1st round or in a draft where the 5th year option was available.  Talk about some serious reaching.  A real new low for you.  Even when you do that, it's a extremely small number of players.  Especially defensive players.  So let's look at the data:  Zero players out of 48 defensive 1st rounders drafted between 2014-2016 got new deals after three years.  In 2013, ZERO defensive players out of 17 drafted in the 1st round got new deals after 3 years.  In 2012 ZERO defensive players drafted in the 1st round got new deals after 3 years.  In 2011 3 out of the 16 defensive players drafted in the 1st round got new deals after 3 years.  So to summarize: 3% of defensive 1st round players players since the 2011 draft have received extensions after 3 years.  ZERO defensive 1st rounders since 2012 have gotten extensions after 3 years.  That's ZERO players out of 82 defensive 1st rounders.  Those are some bad looking odds/trends.  Just walk away.

To me that is all irrelevant. I understand what you're trying to say , I just don't see the relevance. It's not a common thing because seeing greatness in 3 years is not a common thing. But it happens and I think should happen so we sign him with a lower total cap. 

 

Tre passes the eye test , with flying colors. Achieved 1st team ALL PRO , since day 1  it wasn't hard to see this kid is special and elite at his position. Fans LOVE him , judging by the Bills promotion of him , they love him , teammates love him, is a great locker room guy and has tremendous work ethic. We're not letting this guy touch the market, might as well save a little coin and sign him now rather than later. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by JerseyBills

[njbuff]

I actually wanted the Bills to draft Golladay in 2017.

 

But I digress. ?

[soflabillsfan1]

1 hour ago, JerseyBills said:

To me that is all irrelevant. I understand what you're trying to say , I just don't see the relevance. It's not a common thing because seeing greatness in 3 years is not a common thing. But it happens and I think should happen so we sign him with a lower total cap. 

 

Tre passes the eye test , with flying colors. Achieved 1st team ALL PRO , since day 1  it wasn't hard to see this kid is special and elite at his position. Fans LOVE him , judging by the Bills promotion of him , they love him , teammates love him, is a great locker room guy and has tremendous work ethic. We're not letting this guy touch the market, might as well save a little coin and sign him now rather than later. 

I was referring to Edmunds, but the same principal applies to Tre. There are a ton of defensive  players that showed their greatness by year 3 that didn't get new deals till after year 4.  Khalil Mack, Aaron Donald, Von Miller, Xavier Rhodes, Anthony Barr, CJ Mosely, Clowney, Ansah, Fletcher Cox, Chandler Jones, Marcus Peters, Joey Bosa, Jalen Ramsey, and plenty of other Pro Bowlers left out.  Not saying they won't do Tre this offseason but it would be going severely against the trend.

Edited February 15, 2020 by soflabillsfan1

[JerseyBills]

28 minutes ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

I was referring to Edmunds, but the same principal applies to Tre. There are a ton of defensive  players that showed their greatness by year 3 that didn't get new deals till after year 4.  Khali Mack, Aaron Donald, Von Miller, Xavier Rhodes, Anthony Barr, CJ Mosely, Clowney, Ansah, Fletcher Cox, Chandler Jones, Marcus Peters, Joey Bosa, Jalen Ramsey, and plenty of other Pro Bowlers left out.  Not saying they won't do Tre this offseason but it would be going severely against the trend.

That's True and I agree it's against the grain.

 

But I guarantee most didn't have our type of cap flexibility . 10 win team with 80 mil in cap , we're in a great position to make the deal now. 

[BillsMafia13]

On 2/12/2020 at 10:59 AM, njbuff said:

This is a WR rich draft.

 

Why give up draft choices when you can draft 2-4 WR's in this draft alone and let them develop with Allen?

 

Give up a 1st round pick AND pay Golliday? Beyond stupid.

Sammy Watkins is a sure fire wr, can’t miss prospect ready to play now- 2014 draft.

You’re right but I’m just so sick of striking out at drafting wrs

[SoTier]

 

On 2/13/2020 at 8:51 PM, Pokebball said:

I agree.  There were higher priorities than WR.  Much higher priorities.

 

When you give up a fortune in draft capital to move up to draft a first round QB, what higher "priorities" can there be than adding a WR when your team didn't have a single NFL starter caliber WR on the roster???? 

 

 

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

To the extent that the draft is a crapshoot, free agency is too.

 

Plenty of FAs who'd been good on their last team don't do as well in a new system with new coaches and surroundings. Some do. But it's not as if FAs are a sure thing either.

 

You don't have to go back to Haynesworth, Osweiler, or David Boston's Chargers contract to find FAs who didn't live up to their pay. Jacoby Brissett, Sam Bradford to the Cards, Vontae Davis, for Pete's sake, or look at Nate Solder. Case Keenum Malcolm Butler, Sammy Watkins, who's been decent but nowhere near lived up to his contract ... it goes on and on.

 

I disagree.  Veteran players who move to other teams are known quantities to the NFL talent evaluators while college players entering the NFL are much less well known.  When veteran players fail on new teams, it's much more often that the team trading for them or signing them put those players into situations that don't fit their skill sets than that veteran players suddenly quit once they get a big pay day.  Furthermore, don't discount FO incompetence or hubris is teams' failures in acquiring veteran players. 

 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I'm not a fan of trading a 1st for Golladay and making him a top paid WR in the league I just don't see him being that elite #1 WR, he's very good but we already have that in Brown and he's nowhere near the top paid.

 

John Brown Stats- 72 catches, 1,060, 6 TD

Kenny Golladay   - 65 catches, 1,190, 11 TD

 

The difference to me is John Brown has been working with Josh Allen for 1 season and Golladay has been working with Stafford since 2017, I just don't think I'm giving up assets for a very good WR, just my opinion.

[Thurman#1]

15 hours ago, soflabillsfan1 said:

OMG, this is really pathetic.  I went back three years because these were the most recent drafts that pertained to the topic.  I also included only defensive players because Edmunds is  defensive player.  You start throwing in offensive players, quarterbacks and guys not even drafted in the 1st round or in a draft where the 5th year option was available.  Talk about some serious reaching.  A real new low for you.  Even when you do that, it's a extremely small number of players.  Especially defensive players.  So let's look at the data:  Zero players out of 48 defensive 1st rounders drafted between 2014-2016 got new deals after three years.  In 2013, ZERO defensive players out of 17 drafted in the 1st round got new deals after 3 years.  In 2012 1 defensive player drafted in the 1st round got a new deal after 3 years.  In 2011 2 out of the 16 defensive players drafted in the 1st round got new deals after 3 years.  So to summarize: 3% of defensive 1st round players players since the 2011 draft have received extensions after 3 years.  1 defensive 1st rounders since 2012 has gotten and extension after 3 years.  That's 1 player out of 82 defensive 1st rounders or 3 in 98 if you go nap to 2011 the first year of the 5th year option.  Those are some bad looking odds/trends.  Just walk away.

 

 

 

I see. Yeah, this totally makes sense.

 

So McDermott was the DC and Beane the AGM for a team that gave a third year contract ... to a defensive player ... who happens to play the exact same position as Edmunds? In a McDermott defense, on a team GM'd by Beane?

 

And because it didn't happen to a guy drafted between 2014 and 2016, a set of years you picked specifically to try to minimize the number of hits ... you STILL want to pretend it's not a very decent possibility?

 

How funny that you didn't mention that part of my post.

 

You got one thing right, though. Pathetic indeed.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

 

When you give up a fortune in draft capital to move up to draft a first round QB, what higher "priorities" can there be than adding a WR when your team didn't have a single NFL starter caliber WR on the roster???? 

 

 

 

I disagree.  Veteran players who move to other teams are known quantities to the NFL talent evaluators while college players entering the NFL are much less well known.  When veteran players fail on new teams, it's much more often that the team trading for them or signing them put those players into situations that don't fit their skill sets than that veteran players suddenly quit once they get a big pay day.  Furthermore, don't discount FO incompetence or hubris is teams' failures in acquiring veteran players. 

 

 

 

I understand your post and you make some good points here.

 

But I disagree with a lot of it. FAs aren't precisely known quantities. FAs are known quantities for what they can do playing within the system they were playing in and surrounded by the guys they were surrounded by and making the salaries (sometimes much smaller) that they were making. When those and other factors change, plenty of FAs aren't the known quantities that they were thought to be.

 

I didn't say that sudden quitting was the only factor. It sometimes happens, but there are plenty of other reasons FA moves don't work out, from scheme fits to hating the new city to sudden painkiller addictions to not being as effective as they get older ... it goes on and on.

 

I'd agree with you this much, you probably have a better shot for success with a low- to mid-priced FA than you do with a 6th or 7th rounder. Much better. But a 2nd rounder? I disagree.

 

"What higher 'priorities' can there be than adding a WR when your team didn't have a single NFL starter caliber WR on the roster?" you ask? What higher priority  could there be? I think the best answer for that is a simple one ... whatever builds the team best. OL could be higher if your OL are a danger to your QB. Runner could be higher if your run game sucks so badly that teams can count on stopping them with seven guys and can concentrate their defensive resources totally on stopping the pass game. Defense could be higher if your offense is decent but your defense so bad that you're always behind.

 

If you're talking about 2018 player acquisition, they have specifically said that they didn't want to put Josh in as early as they did. So bringing in WR support for McCarron, Peterman and Barkley was very legitimately not thought of as a huge priority at that time. They wanted to build the team defense-first, and that made a lot of sense at the time, especially with a genuinely screwed-up salary cap situation from the Whaley days.

[Chicken Boo]

19 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

To the extent that the draft is a crapshoot, free agency is too.

 

Plenty of FAs who'd been good on their last team don't do as well in a new system with new coaches and surroundings. Some do. But it's not as if FAs are a sure thing either.

 

You don't have to go back to Haynesworth, Osweiler, or David Boston's Chargers contract to find FAs who didn't live up to their pay. Jacoby Brissett, Sam Bradford to the Cards, Vontae Davis, for Pete's sake, or look at Nate Solder. Case Keenum Malcolm Butler, Sammy Watkins, who's been decent but nowhere near lived up to his contract ... it goes on and on.

 

I'd agree with you had Golloday not put up the numbers he did this past season with David Blough and Jeff Driskel at QB for half the season.

 

If Kenny were somehow unable to replicate that in Buffalo, then we have far more pressing issues.

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I understand your post and you make some good points here.

 

But I disagree with a lot of it. FAs aren't precisely known quantities. FAs are known quantities for what they can do playing within the system they were playing in and surrounded by the guys they were surrounded by and making the salaries (sometimes much smaller) that they were making. When those and other factors change, plenty of FAs aren't the known quantities that they were thought to be.

 

I didn't say that sudden quitting was the only factor. It sometimes happens, but there are plenty of other reasons FA moves don't work out, from scheme fits to hating the new city to sudden painkiller addictions to not being as effective as they get older ... it goes on and on.

 

I'd agree with you this much, you probably have a better shot for success with a low- to mid-priced FA than you do with a 6th or 7th rounder. Much better. But a 2nd rounder? I disagree.

 

"What higher 'priorities' can there be than adding a WR when your team didn't have a single NFL starter caliber WR on the roster?" you ask? What higher priority  could there be? I think the best answer for that is a simple one ... whatever builds the team best. OL could be higher if your OL are a danger to your QB. Runner could be higher if your run game sucks so badly that teams can count on stopping them with seven guys and can concentrate their defensive resources totally on stopping the pass game. Defense could be higher if your offense is decent but your defense so bad that you're always behind.

 

If you're talking about 2018 player acquisition, they have specifically said that they didn't want to put Josh in as early as they did. So bringing in WR support for McCarron, Peterman and Barkley was very legitimately not thought of as a huge priority at that time. They wanted to build the team defense-first, and that made a lot of sense at the time, especially with a genuinely screwed-up salary cap situation from the Whaley days.

 

 

You are continually making  excuses for the stupid offensive decisions the McDermott/Beane regime made in 2017-2018.  There really aren't any.  They demonstrated remarkable incompetence in their offensive personnel transactions, including hiring terrible offensive assistant coaches and poor draft decisions (more so in 2017), that suggested they were both completely clueless about offensive football, starting with not re-signing or trading away three NFL caliber WRs in 2017 and not replacing any of them with WRs good enough to play in the NFL much less start, until 2019.   

 

Furthermore, the Bills "cap hell" in 2018 was largely of McDermott/Beane's own making as they not only sent players packing without regard to cap implications as in dead cap space as well as the cost of replacing those players.   They also wasted cap space by trading for/signing FAs like Corey Coleman and AJ McCarron.  In McCarron's case, it seems that he signed with the Bills with the belief that he would get a legitimate shot at being the starter and felt that he didn't get a fair chance at doing so.

 

If the Bills didn't intend to have Allen playing early in his rookie season, then they should have kept Tyrod Taylor or brought in a FA QB better than McCarron to be the starter -- and they definitely should have brought in a better backup QB than Nathan Peterman.  They literally dithered for a month during the season after Peterman proved himself incompetent waiting for Derek Anderson to decide whether to come out of retirement as if he were the only back up QB available!  Moreover, they had no excuse for not hiring an experienced QB coach for their prize rookie.  David Culley's only experience as a QB coach had been a single football season 30 years before in a small collegiate program.

 

It was only in 2019 that the Bills FO started performing competently.  Beane and McDermott replaced most of the offensive assistants.  They added an experienced, dedicated QB coach for Allen.  Beane signed some decent OLers and WRs in FA.  They drafted better, too, on the offensive side of the ball.  My guess is that there was a significant change in the Bills organization, and that Beane was given more authority in 2019 than he had previously.   The resignation of "Mr Moneyball" Russ Brandon in the wake of a sexual harassment scandal in May, 2018, seems likely to be the change that allowed Beane/McDermott to demonstrate that they might actually know what they were doing.   In 2017-2018, the Bills personnel moves were depressingly similar to the ones made throughout Brandon's tenure first as the Bills defacto GM and then defacto owner between 2006-2013.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by SoTier