elroy16 Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said: that's being nice to Mayfield there. LOL..... your summary doesn't include the 11 more TO's or a myriad of other numbers going against Mayfield that make the whole thing absurd. yOu aRen'T taKinG IntO coNSidEraTioN tUrnOvEr woRtHy pLaYs!!! 2
Stank_Nasty Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 Just now, elroy16 said: yOu aRen'T taKinG IntO coNSidEraTioN tUrnOvEr woRtHy pLaYs!!!
thebandit27 Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: Monson actually admits they are purposely trolling with the “data” ... *face palm* Remember the classic “who wants to apologize” threads? We need one of those for the group of us that have been calling PFF grades totally subjective for years now ? 2
dave mcbride Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 @Hapless Bills Fan - you might like this recent book, which is on the long-term divide between scouts and number crunchers (albeit with a focus on baseball): https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691180212/scouting-and-scoring. That's at root what all of this about. More broadly, the rise of FO and PFF is really the knock-on effect of the amazingly successful career of Nate Silver, who has gone from projecting the 2008 TB Rays as a world series team because of his statistical projections to the famous data-based projection guru in the country today.
YoloinOhio Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 56 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Remember the classic “who wants to apologize” threads? We need one of those for the group of us that have been calling PFF grades totally subjective for years now ? I’ve always said that PFF is a piece of the story but not the whole story. It can be useful, but it doesn’t conclude anything. Actually, that can be said about Box score stats in general sometimes. Edited February 21, 2020 by YoloinOhio
Logic Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I’ve always said that PFF is a piece of the story but not the whole story. It can be useful, but it doesn’t conclude anything. Actually, that can be said about Box score stats in general sometimes. This. Take their data sets, consider them side-by-side with other data sets, and form your own conclusions. What they say is not gospel. Most fans I know that dislike PFF dislike them not for their analytics, their secret proprietary formulas, or their data, but for their OPINION pieces, which they post right alongside the data. Some feel that a data collection and analysis website shouldn't be posting opinion pieces, especially when the opinions that they posit are often not backed up by the data. Furthermore, the recent admission by Sam Monson that they sometimes deliberately post inflammatory opinions that they don't even necessarily BELIEVE just to stir the hornet's nest does nothing to help their credibility. Edited February 21, 2020 by Logic
Captain Hindsight Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Monson actually admits they are purposely trolling with the “data” ... *face palm* Saw this earlier and decided I was completely done with PFF. What an absolute joke 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Monson actually admits they are purposely trolling with the “data” ... *face palm* This is my surprised face Monson basically was quoted as saying as much in one of the recent articles (I think in TBN....believe I linked it on another thread). I forget the word he used, but it was something to the effect that he hoped to troll all 32 fan bases before the year was out, and that the Bills had one of the more reactive fan-bases (that wasn’t his word, but what he meant). I wish us Bills fans would make a pinky pact to treat him as he deserves - with silence 1 1
Stank_Nasty Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: Remember the classic “who wants to apologize” threads? We need one of those for the group of us that have been calling PFF grades totally subjective for years now ? I know that thurman1 loves to go to bat for PFF routinely. in fact he even took up for them after the hodges comments.....interesting stuff.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 32 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: @Hapless Bills Fan - you might like this recent book, which is on the long-term divide between scouts and number crunchers (albeit with a focus on baseball): https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691180212/scouting-and-scoring. That's at root what all of this about. More broadly, the rise of FO and PFF is really the knock-on effect of the amazingly successful career of Nate Silver, who has gone from projecting the 2008 TB Rays as a world series team because of his statistical projections to the famous data-based projection guru in the country today. Thanks for the recommendation, Dave, I’ll have a look if I can find it! 11 minutes ago, Logic said: This. Take their data sets, consider them side-by-side with other data sets, and form your own conclusions. What they say is not gospel. Most fans I know that dislike PFF dislike them not for their analytics, their secret proprietary formulas, or their data, but for their OPINION pieces, which they post right alongside the data. Some feel that a data collection and analysis website shouldn't be posting opinion pieces, especially when the opinions that they posit are often not backed up by the data. Furthermore, the recent admission by Sam Monson that they sometimes deliberately post inflammatory opinions that they don't even necessarily BELIEVE just to stir the hornet's nest does nothing to help their credibility. I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence and the part about not posting opinions that aren’t backed up by data. I do have a most sincere problem with PFF’s “secret sauce” statistics, especially their hypotheticals (“potentially interceptable balls” or some such). I think once you’re into trying to quantitate stuff that didn’t actually happen, you’re on very tenuous ground. 1
Don Otreply Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 On 2/14/2020 at 11:14 PM, Lurker said: I think the only thing PFF is good at is generating clicks, web traffic and message board chatter... Well, if all of the Bills fans that click on that site, and spend time on their pages STOPPED doing that... see we’re I’m going with this? Don’t feed the troll guys & gals. Completely ignore that they exist. If I can do it you all sure can. ? Go Bills!!! 1
Logic Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: I do have a most sincere problem with PFF’s “secret sauce” statistics, especially their hypotheticals (“potentially interceptable balls” or some such). I think once you’re into trying to quantitate stuff that didn’t actually happen, you’re on very tenuous ground. Agreed. Case in point: In attempting to explain why they felt Baker Mayfield had a better season than Josh Allen, they pointed to the fact that Allen supposedly had more "turnover worthy" plays than Baker Mayfield. Meanwhile, Baker had more ACTUAL interceptions BY FAR! This did not seem to matter to them. Somehow, "turnover worthy plays" detracted more from Allen's season than ACTUAL turnovers detracted from Mayfield's. Sure, right, whatever you say, guys! ? 1 1
whatdrought Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 55 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: that’s sexy. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 13 minutes ago, whatdrought said: that’s sexy. Rawrrrrrr!
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Don Otreply said: Well, if all of the Bills fans that click on that site, and spend time on their pages STOPPED doing that... see we’re I’m going with this? Don’t feed the troll guys & gals. Completely ignore that they exist. If I can do it you all sure can. ? Go Bills!!! I hear a little song coming on......mimimimimimi (to the tune of "Sound of Silence") Hello Sam Monson, my old friend You trolled Bills Mafia again Because you know that Bills fans love Our Guy And if you bait us, We will tell you why! To get clicks, You admitted that you trolled us by admiring DuckHey, What the F***? Now hear the Sound…..of Silence Please feel free to share widely No credit necessary No salesman will call (I'm here all week, tip your server) 2 1
whatdrought Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I hear a little song coming on......mimimimimimi (to the tune of "Sound of Silence") Hello Sam Monson, my old friend You trolled Bills Mafia again Because you know that Bills fans love Our Guy And if you bait us, We will tell you why! To get clicks, You admitted that you trolled us by admiring DuckHey, What the F***? Now hear the Sound…..of Silence Please feel free to share widely No credit necessary No salesman will call well done, but I’m a little mad cause that song is gonna be stuck for days now. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: well done, but I’m a little mad cause that song is gonna be stuck for days now. Thank you Sorry Not.sorry
BigBillsFan Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 On 2/11/2020 at 2:23 AM, CNY315 said: Wow. A 1st team All-Pro isn't a top 101 player lmao Yeah I just looked up my reference book... Says right here and I QUOTE: "1st team All-Pro CB is rated the 102nd best player" 1
Don Otreply Posted February 21, 2020 Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) On 2/21/2020 at 5:14 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: I hear a little song coming on......mimimimimimi (to the tune of "Sound of Silence") Hello Sam Monson, my old friend You trolled Bills Mafia again Because you know that Bills fans love Our Guy And if you bait us, We will tell you why! To get clicks, You admitted that you trolled us by admiring DuckHey, What the F***? Now hear the Sound…..of Silence Please feel free to share widely No credit necessary No salesman will call Well done sir, well done. ?? you ear wormed me too... Edited February 23, 2020 by Don Otreply 1
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