PFF Baker is still better than Allen & Tre isn't in their top 101 players

[Big Turk]

13 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Mayfield throws for a mere 2 more tds while tossing 12 more int’s than Allen. Also posts a significantly lower qb rating.... all while having OBJ and landry at his disposal... and he was better than Allen? Solid take there

 

and the tre white stuff is comically absurd. They had 18 other cb’s ranked ahead of him by seasons end. That’s absolutely HILARIOUS. The man was voted 1st team ALL PRO!!!!! 
 

Some of the other leftovers on that list are equally as bad... I honestly used to sort of respect PFF as a SMALL tool in the evaluation toolbox. It’s very clear I was giving them way too much credit. 

 

This is what happens when you simply watch plays without understanding WHAT the play was supposed to be or WHO the primary read was and if the QB did what he was supposed to do or not on the play. They cannot legitimately grade players without knowing these things which makes their grades relatively meaningless.

[Stank_Nasty]

2 hours ago, GreggTX said:

They totally whiffed on White, but I can't argue about the Mayfield/Allen comparison.

if you have seen the numbers comparisons going around in this thread and cant argue the comparison.... then you are just flat out lost. 

 

its frightens me when I find out there are people walking around the world like this trying to do everyday things that may involve basic reason or common sense.

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Date of article is June 2014 which makes it interesting because they were predicting that Tom Brady was no longer elite.  Guy's been to 4 Superbowls and won 3 since then.

 

Key quote (emphasis theirs)

 

Belichick then went on to talk about watching opposing team’s game films and the impossibilities of knowing what happened:

But believe me, I’ve watched plenty of preseason games this time of year and you’re looking at all the other teams in the league and you try to evaluate players and you’re watching the teams that we’re going to play early in the season and there are plenty of plays where I have no idea what went wrong. Something’s wrong but I don’t…these two guys made a mistake but I don’t know which guy it was or if it was both of them. You just don’t know that. I don’t know how you can know that unless you’re really part of the team and know exactly what was supposed to happen on that play. I know there are a lot of experts out there that have it all figured out but I definitely don’t. This time of year, sometimes it’s hard to figure that out, exactly what they’re trying to do. When somebody makes a mistake, whose mistake is it?

Bill Belichick doesn’t have it figured out. But Pro Football Focus does? They can provide a grade on every play?

 

and

 

Lastly, I hesitate to bring this part up, but part of me wonders the qualifications for doing this work. It feels like me taking a job to to play-by-play film breakdown on the Premier League.  What are the football coaching or scouting backgrounds for these UK analysts making these grades? Is there anyone on staff with an NFL background?

 

Bolded my emphasis because I did not realize PFF was based in the UK and therefore, unless they are importing film graders from the US, they likely lack the experience of even a DI college player in the states.

 

They lack a ton. They are Cain Fahey level insignificant.

[Jauronimo]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Those uppers.....

Thats not nice, shes very shy.  So shy that I heard Josh rubs peanut butter on her gums before social occasions to get her to appear to talk.

[C.Biscuit97]

This is like the people who spend all their complaining how awful and biased CNN and Fox News are yet they watch them everyday and get mad about it. 

[hondo in seattle]

There's a website somewhere on the internet that uses flawed methodology to rate NFL players.

Why do we care?

[Alphadawg7]

Honestly doesn't surprise me at all.  PFF has just become laughable at their evaluations across the league.  

[thurst44]

11 hours ago, MJS said:

Not really surprised about Baker and Allen. Clear to me who the winner of those two is, though. The guy who got his team to the playoffs.

 

Not having Tre White, first team all-pro, on your top 100 list? That's hilarious. He stacks up in every statistical category as an elite corner... except his PFF grade? Haha. Ok. I sure hope Tre sees this and wants to prove them how wrong they are. Same with Allen, for that matter.

The weirdest thing is PFF LOVED Tre his rookie year. He was their DROY. Still a bit baffled how they can argue that a guy who led the league in interceptions, was second in QBR against, and who did not allow a single TD in a season is regressing and not even a top 10 cornerback. If your metric does not put a guy like that even in your top 100 players, it's probably your metric that's wrong.

 

Also, have they ever talked about Sean McDermott, because given he's one of four teams that don't even have one top 101 player, he's got his team solidly in the playoffs. They must believe he's the second coming of Lombardi (or at least the love child of Belichick and Reid).

[Tenhigh]

47 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

There's a website somewhere on the internet that uses flawed methodology to rate NFL players.

Why do we care?

Because they are trying to steal Nextmanup's and Mongo's jobs!!!

They took errrr jobs!!!!

[CorkScrewHill]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Exactly. If people knew the work that these Quality Control Assistants do to watch plays 5, 6, 7 times in a row from each of 3 different views just to get a feel for one player’s assignment on a given play, they’d realize that the only value that PFF offers is in their data acquisition. Snap counts, formations, etc. That’s the value.

Don't forget the pretty graphics, the data must be right because the presentation is so nicely done!

 

Kudos to them for making a business by spouting opinion but selling it as facts ...

[Ramza86]

15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

They have wives?  I thought they were in love with their computer models

 

I'm convinced Allen has better things to do, like a live girl model.  I mean

 

I don't want to ping this site's 'sexual content' filter by putting the pictures in but

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8Nr6D9gMCC/

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8UGX5dgZ5E/

Enjoy the scenery!

 

 

 

Anyone else think our boy Josh can do way better?

 

Unless shes a really great person and the love is real. Nom sayin.

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

 

Anyone else think our boy Josh can do way better?

 

Unless shes a really great person and the love is real. Nom sayin.

They’ve been together almost 4 years.

[CorkScrewHill]

5 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

 

Anyone else think our boy Josh can do way better?

 

Unless shes a really great person and the love is real. Nom sayin.

Seriously .. talking about the looks of a wife / girlfriend on this site a) has nothing to do with football; and b) says a lot about the people making the comments.

 

Really, really pathetic!

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, Ramza86 said:

 

Anyone else think our boy Josh can do way better?

 

Unless shes a really great person and the love is real. Nom sayin.

Not to be mean because she certainly is attractive but I’m not perving out like some posters over her.  It reminds me about the Tannehill wife comments.  Never got the hype. And of course a millionaire football player could get a physically hotter girl.  But love is about more than that and she’s certainly attractive.  

Just now, CorkScrewHill said:

Seriously .. talking about the looks of a wife / girlfriend on this site a) has nothing to do with football; and b) says a lot about the people making the comments.

 

Really, really pathetic!

Sad!

 

but my rule of thumb is never comment about a person’s girlfriend or wife.  Once they start dating someone, they cease to exist to me.  It’s bad karma. 

[Ramza86]

Just now, CorkScrewHill said:

Seriously .. talking about the looks of a wife / girlfriend on this site a) has nothing to do with football; and b) says a lot about the people making the comments.

 

Really, really pathetic!

 

[Bermuda Triangle]

These clowns clearly thrive off of taking shots at Bills players, and off of annoying Bills fans.

 

They're paid trolls, much like Sullivan used to be.

[wiley16350]

The reason Allen doesn't rank high in the PFF system is because he wasn't good throwing over 30 yards and he had too many turnovers.  It is as simple as that.  They have admitted that Allen was top 10 in the short to intermediate game according to their system.  The problem with their system is that it weighs too heavily on big plays vs turnovers, the 2 areas Allen struggled the most.  What they fail to recognize is that Allen's turnover problem isn't necessarily something that is not fixable.  Jameis Winston throws a lot of interceptions every year because he makes bad decisions of every type and has never shown the ability to be something different.  Allen on the other hand had most of his interceptions in the first half of the season and most of them were because he tried to play hero ball when the offense was struggling.  Allen wasn't throwing interceptions because he didn't understand what the defense was doing, he threw them in spite of knowing exactly what was happening.  That is why he was able to fix it and why the Allen of the second half of the season is more likely to be the player he will be.  The second half of the season saw Allen fumbling too much but how much of that really defines what kind of QB Allen will be?  Fumbles have a lot to do with luck and protection and even if it isn't, it can still be easily fixed.  The point is, it is reasonable to expect that this will be the worst year for Allen in the number of turnovers, especially if the team around him continues to improve.  The other area where Allen wasn't that good was in deep ball accuracy and there was a multitude of reasons for that but ultimately, for most QB's, deep ball accuracy isn't stable from year to year.  Tom Brady would be the most notable great QB that has never been consistently good at throwing the deep ball.  So the 2 things Allen was bad at this year are the 2 things that aren't stable from year to year (deep passing and turnovers).  For those reasons, there is no reason to believe Allen won't be better next year and that's what frustrates me most about PFF; they have an expectation of Allen not getting any better than he was this year.

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, wiley16350 said:

The reason Allen doesn't rank high in the PFF system is because he wasn't good throwing over 30 yards and he had too many turnovers.  It is as simple as that.  They have admitted that Allen was top 10 in the short to intermediate game according to their system.  The problem with their system is that it weighs too heavily on big plays vs turnovers, the 2 areas Allen struggled the most.  What they fail to recognize is that Allen's turnover problem isn't necessarily something that is not fixable.  Jameis Winston throws a lot of interceptions every year because he makes bad decisions of every type and has never shown the ability to be something different.  Allen on the other hand had most of his interceptions in the first half of the season and most of them were because he tried to play hero ball when the offense was struggling.  Allen wasn't throwing interceptions because he didn't understand what the defense was doing, he threw them in spite of knowing exactly what was happening.  That is why he was able to fix it and why the Allen of the second half of the season is more likely to be the player he will be.  The second half of the season saw Allen fumbling too much but how much of that really defines what kind of QB Allen will be?  Fumbles have a lot to do with luck and protection and even if it isn't, it can still be easily fixed.  The point is, it is reasonable to expect that this will be the worst year for Allen in the number of turnovers, especially if the team around him continues to improve.  The other area where Allen wasn't that good was in deep ball accuracy and there was a multitude of reasons for that but ultimately, for most QB's, deep ball accuracy isn't stable from year to year.  Tom Brady would be the most notable great QB that has never been consistently good at throwing the deep ball.  So the 2 things Allen was bad at this year are the 2 things that aren't stable from year to year (deep passing and turnovers).  For those reasons, there is no reason to believe Allen won't be better next year and that's what frustrates me most about PFF; they have an expectation of Allen not getting any better than he was this year.

 

All of this is well and fine.... Mayfield still had 10 more turnovers than Allen. They're worthless shills and they're biased against Josh. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by whatdrought

[wiley16350]

2 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

All of this is well and fine.... Mayfield still had 10 more turnovers than Allen. They're worthless shills and they're biased against Josh. 

Actually Mayfield only had 4 more turnovers than Allen when you combine fumbles and Interceptions.  I do believe they're biased against Josh because I see it in their writings and the things they say.  I don't know how much that effects the grade but I do know that it distorts the narrative they have about him.  My post wasn't to defend PFF, it was to explain why their rating of Allen is what it is.  I think the rating is flawed because they put too much weight on big plays and not enough on the short to intermediate game that is necessary to win in the NFL.  Big plays matter but just the threat alone can be enough to make a team successful if their really good at the short and intermediate.  When it comes to grading QB's, I don't like their system mostly because of that.

[whatdrought]

12 minutes ago, wiley16350 said:

Actually Mayfield only had 4 more turnovers than Allen when you combine fumbles and Interceptions.  I do believe they're biased against Josh because I see it in their writings and the things they say.  I don't know how much that effects the grade but I do know that it distorts the narrative they have about him.  My post wasn't to defend PFF, it was to explain why their rating of Allen is what it is.  I think the rating is flawed because they put too much weight on big plays and not enough on the short to intermediate game that is necessary to win in the NFL.  Big plays matter but just the threat alone can be enough to make a team successful if their really good at the short and intermediate.  When it comes to grading QB's, I don't like their system mostly because of that.

 

Mayfield: 21 interceptions + 2 fumbles lost = 23

Allen: 9 interceptions = 4 fumbles lost = 13

 

23-13 = 10.

 

Also worth noting Josh had +4 tds. 

 

I gotcha... PFF's problem is that they ignore football and look at arbitrary statistics that don't mean *****. 

 

 

 

 

 

This is really all that needs to be said about the conversation, honestly. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any metric that has enough weight to remove all of the above statistics in this conversation. Maybe just straight up QB wins, but we know who has more of those as well. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by whatdrought