PFF Baker is still better than Allen & Tre isn't in their top 101 players

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Roch-A-Bill said:

Interesting article from the dark side [Boston]:

 

https://bostonsportsmedia.com/2014/06/04/can-pro-football-focus-stats-be-blindly-trusted/

 

Date of article is June 2014 which makes it interesting because they were predicting that Tom Brady was no longer elite.  Guy's been to 4 Superbowls and won 3 since then.

 

Key quote (emphasis theirs)

 

Belichick then went on to talk about watching opposing team’s game films and the impossibilities of knowing what happened:

But believe me, I’ve watched plenty of preseason games this time of year and you’re looking at all the other teams in the league and you try to evaluate players and you’re watching the teams that we’re going to play early in the season and there are plenty of plays where I have no idea what went wrong. Something’s wrong but I don’t…these two guys made a mistake but I don’t know which guy it was or if it was both of them. You just don’t know that. I don’t know how you can know that unless you’re really part of the team and know exactly what was supposed to happen on that play. I know there are a lot of experts out there that have it all figured out but I definitely don’t. This time of year, sometimes it’s hard to figure that out, exactly what they’re trying to do. When somebody makes a mistake, whose mistake is it?

Bill Belichick doesn’t have it figured out. But Pro Football Focus does? They can provide a grade on every play?

 

and

 

Lastly, I hesitate to bring this part up, but part of me wonders the qualifications for doing this work. It feels like me taking a job to to play-by-play film breakdown on the Premier League.  What are the football coaching or scouting backgrounds for these UK analysts making these grades? Is there anyone on staff with an NFL background?

 

Bolded my emphasis because I did not realize PFF was based in the UK and therefore, unless they are importing film graders from the US, they likely lack the experience of even a DI college player in the states.

 

[White Linen]

Sam Monson also said if you think OBJ was special with Eli as his QB wait until you see him with Baker.  Oops

 

The guy is a pontificator that is wrong consistently.  

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Date of article is June 2014 which makes it interesting because they were predicting that Tom Brady was no longer elite.  Guy's been to 4 Superbowls and won 3 since then.

 

Key quote (emphasis theirs)

 

Belichick then went on to talk about watching opposing team’s game films and the impossibilities of knowing what happened:

But believe me, I’ve watched plenty of preseason games this time of year and you’re looking at all the other teams in the league and you try to evaluate players and you’re watching the teams that we’re going to play early in the season and there are plenty of plays where I have no idea what went wrong. Something’s wrong but I don’t…these two guys made a mistake but I don’t know which guy it was or if it was both of them. You just don’t know that. I don’t know how you can know that unless you’re really part of the team and know exactly what was supposed to happen on that play. I know there are a lot of experts out there that have it all figured out but I definitely don’t. This time of year, sometimes it’s hard to figure that out, exactly what they’re trying to do. When somebody makes a mistake, whose mistake is it?

Bill Belichick doesn’t have it figured out. But Pro Football Focus does? They can provide a grade on every play?

 

and

 

Lastly, I hesitate to bring this part up, but part of me wonders the qualifications for doing this work. It feels like me taking a job to to play-by-play film breakdown on the Premier League.  What are the football coaching or scouting backgrounds for these UK analysts making these grades? Is there anyone on staff with an NFL background?

 

Bolded my emphasis because I did not realize PFF was based in the UK and therefore, unless they are importing film graders from the US, they likely lack the experience of even a DI college player in the states.

 

Exactly. If people knew the work that these Quality Control Assistants do to watch plays 5, 6, 7 times in a row from each of 3 different views just to get a feel for one player’s assignment on a given play, they’d realize that the only value that PFF offers is in their data acquisition. Snap counts, formations, etc. That’s the value.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Exactly. If people knew the work that these Quality Control Assistants do to watch plays 5, 6, 7 times in a row from each of 3 different views just to get a feel for one player’s assignment on a given play, they’d realize that the only value that PFF offers is in their data acquisition. Snap counts, formations, etc. That’s the value.

 

I can't tell if that's sarcasm?

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I can't tell if that's sarcasm?

No...just not entirely clear. I’m saying that if people knew how hard actual NFL AQC personnel worked just to try to understand one guy’s assignment on one play, they’d know beyond all doubt that a writer with zero football experience half a world away is just guessing at best.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

No...just not entirely clear. I’m saying that if people knew how hard actual NFL AQC personnel worked just to try to understand one guy’s assignment on one play, they’d know beyond all doubt that a writer with zero football experience half a world away is just guessing at best.

 

Ah, I see now.  You're saying that the QCA employed by different teams in the NFL, who I believe usually have a football background, watch 3 different views 5,6,7 times in a row to get a feel for a players assignment while watching tape on 1 team, so for people who may have less football background and who are trying to watch tape from all 32 teams each week to not only decide what that assignment is, but assign them a grade, is bogus.

 

Yes, agree.  Snap counts, formations, type of play (run/pass) broken out by down, distance, and game situation (leading, behind, 1Q, 4Q) are all objective and provide value.  Grades or these special sauce stats like DVOA....eh.

[Brother Hesekiah]

As others have already noted, trashing Bills players is cheap/easy way to drum up engagement for people whose job is basically just peddling hot online sports takes dressed up with some made-up  (sorry, "proprietary") statistics.  People like the PFF guys, Aaron Schatz, Cian, etc. know they're playing to an audience and will post this stuff hoping for a reaction.  The best response is to not engage.  I've muted or unfollowed most of these guys and haven't missed them.  If more people did the same, they'd probably move on to fanning another flame.  

 

To be clear, I still follow plenty of football people who are skeptical about Allen and the Bills.  But they tend to be more credible/established and willing to acknowledge when Allen/the Bills play well (e.g., Dan Orlovsky, Geoff Schwartz).  

[ProcessAccepted]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

They have wives?  I thought they were in love with their computer models

 

Can you blame them. Their models really do suck ?

[Never NEVER Give-up]

12 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Mayfield throws for a mere 2 more tds while tossing 12 more int’s than Allen. Also posts a significantly lower qb rating.... all while having OBJ and landry at his disposal... and he was better than Allen? Solid take there

 

and the tre white stuff is comically absurd. They had 18 other cb’s ranked ahead of him by seasons end. That’s absolutely HILARIOUS. The man was voted 1st team ALL PRO!!!!! 

This.

Enough said.

Spot on!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

Can you blame them. Their models really do suck ?

 

Ooooooh.

[Numark3]

Come on guys.  They know Bills fans have a reaction to this and its a great tactic to generate traffic.  It is why they go out of their way to tag and incorporate bills fans in their posts.  

[RyanC883]

this is stupid.  I used to respect PFF, but they have managed to do the unthinkable: become worse than Bleacher Report.  Congrats guys. 

 

BTW: won't be clicking on these links.  Total click-bate at best, terrible 1st grade analysis at worst.  

[blacklabel]

They're so wrapped up in their own scoring systems and numbers it's ridiculous. They'll write whatever they have to in order to justify their BS. They're smug and arrogant. They truly believe they know what every player is supposed to do on every play. They don't. They also have a lot of stupid metrics that spit out negative numbers despite a positive play. In short, they're fulla s#*t and I hope they all get pinged upside the head by a rogue shuttlecock.

[RyanC883]

9 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

Come on guys.  They know Bills fans have a reaction to this and its a great tactic to generate traffic.  It is why they go out of their way to tag and incorporate bills fans in their posts.  

 

exactly why not to click on the posts.  If you want to generate conversation, how about a better topic: can Motor have avoid a sophmore slump?  Can Knox become a fantasy football winner at TE next year, etc.  Things that generate clicks without being a total waste of time.  

[Tisker A Tasker]

PFFFT

[YoloinOhio]

As I’m sure has been mentioned already, Duck Hodges was better than both of them, right PFF? 
 

none of this matters because they both (Allen and Mayfield) need to get better, in different ways, To become what their teams need them to be to contend for the SB. PFF uses a set of stats that doesn’t favor Josh but also doesn’t define Josh. All that matters is next year, 2019 is over. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[Numark3]

7 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

exactly why not to click on the posts.  If you want to generate conversation, how about a better topic: can Motor have avoid a sophmore slump?  Can Knox become a fantasy football winner at TE next year, etc.  Things that generate clicks without being a total waste of time.  

yup.  Even in their post about mayfield...they took a weird Off-topic shot at Allen to trigger bills fans.  It’s so explicit 

[dollars 2 donuts]

I have an appendage they can work their inhaling functions on.

[Gugny]

Did Collinsworth make the punchable face thread?  He certainly should.

[whatdrought]

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

They totally whiffed on White, but I can't argue about the Mayfield/Allen comparison.

 

You must suck at arguing. Mennonite pacifists could dominate that argument without breaking a sweat.