RochesterLifer Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 I’m not smart enough to know if he is, or will be, the man at right tackle. `What I am is confident that Bills leadership will make the right decision and that he will be well coached. After 20 years of wishing, it is a nice feeling to have. 2
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: This is what I’m thinking too. It almost seemed Beane was every bit as happy getting Ford as he was to Oliver. He was every bit as happy. But that won't keep him happy if Ford doesn't meet expectations on the field. I postulate that Beane's POV is that all choices in all drafts can be second-guessed and he'll look dumber sticking with a guy who is showing he can't cut it than he would moving on. The immediate question is just are they confident enough in Ford that they're willing to ride with him, or will they hedge their bets or upgrade? I will think worse of Beane if they show the conclusion that our line as it was last year is good enough. 1 1
SoTier Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 28 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: You can get to and win a SB and have a dynamic offense without a good RT. It's not an island position........you can often give strong side help in the form of a TE. I do think they want Ford to play RT and will probably force the issue...........Beane put all his cards on the table on day 2 of the draft with that "Bills Embedded" show where he was totally fixated on Ford as an OT.................so he'd look dumb passing on Metcalf and then moving Ford to guard. Not necessarily. As I've said before, lots of kids who play OT in college end up playing OG in the pros. If Ford is a better pro OG than he is a pro OT -- and physically that seems likely to be the case -- then he should be playing OG and they need to find somebody else to play RT. It's the old trying to fit a square peg into a round hole thing.
Green Lightning Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So I had this discussion with someone in another thread. Ford has never played RG. He played LG his first years in college, only played RT his Sr year before he came out. So the smart move, if they want to try him at guard, would be to move Ford to LG. Since Spain at LG is a FA, offer him according to how we see his value and let him see what the rest of the league thinks. Leave Feliciano at RG where he played very well and make a move at RT. I thought Nsekhe was decent, but apparently we're worried about durability and can't expect him to hold up through 16 games. This. It just seems so evident that this is the way to go. Spain was solid considering what we had before but we need more from LG and a lot more at RT.
Royale with Cheese Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 26 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: He was every bit as happy. But that won't keep him happy if Ford doesn't meet expectations on the field. I postulate that Beane's POV is that all choices in all drafts can be second-guessed and he'll look dumber sticking with a guy who is showing he can't cut it than he would moving on. The immediate question is just are they confident enough in Ford that they're willing to ride with him, or will they hedge their bets or upgrade? I will think worse of Beane if they show the conclusion that our line as it was last year is good enough. Every time you agree with me, an orphan gets a new puppy. 1
BADOLBILZ Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: TBH one of the most hopeful traits I see in Beane is that he doesn't seem to GAF if people think he looks dumb. "he'll look dumb if we pass up all these other FA QB and then Beane cuts McCarron before the season" <------------*snip* "he'll look dumb if we have to sign two additional QB midway through the season" <---------------- "your autograph please, Mr Anderson and Mr Barkley" "he'll look dumb if he cuts Kelvin Benjamin after having traded for him and traded away Sammy Watkins" <---------------*snip* As you may have read before, I am far from exculpatory of Beane for his mistakes on offensive player personnel, but I don't think he cares who thinks he looks dumb, if the guy shows can't cut the mustard after a fair trial, he will move on and be ruthless about it. I've given McBeane a lot of credit for pivoting on some very bad decisions. That's why I say "probably". Your perspective might be a little cloudy on those 3 instances you listed. They traded(not cut) McCarron to keep the author of the worst QB'd half of football in modern NFL history in Nate Peterman. Coincidentally starting Peterman the year before had turned into a publicly embarrassing situation...........earning them league-wide scorn. That was a clear and totally unnecessary and ill-advised "double down" on a player. FORCED. And cutting Benjamin late in the season when he should have been cut two months earlier for his complete lack of effort was not an instance of pro-activism to take pride in...........that had the feel of loading the moving trucks in the middle of the night. So while they have pivoted quickly on some bad decisions..........some other more personally invested ones maybe not so well. I'd put Cody Ford's situation in the personally embarrassing group because of his costly mistakes in the WC game(while Metcalf was setting a rookie receiving record for yardage by a WR that same weekend). Ford isn't just any pick their lust for him was documented. 3
BADOLBILZ Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, SoTier said: Not necessarily. As I've said before, lots of kids who play OT in college end up playing OG in the pros. If Ford is a better pro OG than he is a pro OT -- and physically that seems likely to be the case -- then he should be playing OG and they need to find somebody else to play RT. It's the old trying to fit a square peg into a round hole thing. Meh I'd avoid drafting guards in round 2 like the plague..........there's a reason why you can usually get really good ones in UFA...........the impact difference between a Feliciano and a $12M guard is not that big. But you're also just assuming he beats out the competition at guard. I can see a scenario where he's a reserve. Pretty easily really..........they re-sign Spain or another guard thinking Ford will be the RT........and then Nsekhe or other just clearly play better in OTA's/camp. Something is not right with Ford........like he has a maturity/impulse control issue or something..........so I'm not even feeling as good about the pick now as I did last year.........and I thought he was a guard when they drafted him and was not impressed with the choice and process to acquire him then. 1
Lurker Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 Simple answer: they don't know. It will take an off-season of rehab and conditioning and a great deal of training camp to see what a second year Ford looks like. Until then, it's an open question...
Reed83HOF Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think we'll get our first glance at an answer in about 5 weeks. -If they go hard at Conklin in FA, the answer is "no", expect to see Ford at guard -If they offer LaAdrian Waddle another contract or sign a similar "Backup who has started and done OK" FA, the answer is "perhaps" - they want to hedge their bets with Nsekhe/someone else who can trade off to help him manage injuries to compete in camp -No moves = they expect Ford to take a step I will be disappointed with that last - Ford MAY take a step in his 2nd year, but as you say, RT is too important to count on that happening. IIRC, they were very non committal at the end of the year pressers. I had been researching Conklin a bit (just a cursory review) and what I came across was that apparently the Titans have been giving him help at RT for the past couple seasons and he really isn't that good. Haven't watched tape or anything, just read a few articles....
Reed83HOF Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 Aside from RT, how much of the OL issues are a result for Josh not reading the defense quick enough vs the WRs not gaining enough separation quick enough for him to be able to deliver the ball in under 2.95 seconds(or whatever the stat was)? In simple terms, is it entirelt that the OL is bad or are their other contributing factors making it appear worse than it really is? 1
hondo in seattle Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 I suspect Beane and McD are as undecided on Ford as many fans are. Ford certainly didn't look like a quality NFL starter in his rookie season and it's hard to project how much - if at all - he'll improve this year. RT is still an unsolved problem and McD and Beane are probably hoping for the best from Ford but - at the same time - preparing for the worst. I expect them to bring in competition through the draft and/or free agency. 1
TigerJ Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 I think the Bills want to be better at right tackle than they were last year, but they will play things by ear. First, they have to decide if they want to re-sign LaAdrian Waddle, who spent his one year contract with the Bills on IR. He's younger than Nsekhe, and potentially as good. Nsekhe had a 2 year deal, and he was effective in pass blocking. Not so much at run blocking. I think the contract was structured in such a way as to give the Bills an easy out if they want it. Beane will also take a look at what other free agents are out there, and what they will cost. In the draft, I think they will pick up an offensive lineman but it could be inside or outside, or a guy with some position versatility, but what and when is going to be dependent to a degree on how the draft falls. Don't expect a guy in the third round or later to come in and be an upgrade to Ford. Lastly, I do expect that Ford will take a step forward. He will try to spend the off season getting quicker and stronger. In short, there will be changes, but they may be in the form of minor tweakings rather than a splash free agent or draft pick. 1
auburnbillsbacker Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 I'm hoping they sign Conklin and move Ford to LG. I think the Bills line would be really good next season with those 2 changes. It is very rare that a young pro bowl tackle becomes available in free agency. It would be a great use of cap space.
NewEra Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 I hope not. RT might be number one on my needs list tbh. Number 1 on my to do list would be to build a dominant line. I don’t think ford will ever be a dominant RT. id like to see ford to LG. Then we’ll see really how good Dawkins is too. He’s looked ok lined up next to Ritchie and Spain. But not so good last year lined up next to Pukasse.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 54 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Aside from RT, how much of the OL issues are a result for Josh not reading the defense quick enough vs the WRs not gaining enough separation quick enough for him to be able to deliver the ball in under 2.95 seconds(or whatever the stat was)? In simple terms, is it entirely that the OL is bad or are their other contributing factors making it appear worse than it really is? Isn’t that a good question? I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes" to both questions. Well, not that the OL is bad - but that it isn't yet Championship calibre. It could hold its own against teams without elite DL, but showed flaws against elite DL or heavy blitzing. 2.96 seconds was used in Kubiak’s article, but seems analogous to NextGen’s TT stat, which is explicitly a snap-to-throw stat. Since Allen clearly extends throwing time with his legs, I’m unclear that’s a good OL stat. Pro-football-reference (which seems to source off Nextgen) gives a Pkttime stat that is explicitly time from snap to throw or pocket collapse. The Bills are tied for worst at 2.3 sec. Unsure how it’s measured, but the point is - there's at least one metric out there which says our OL was near the bottom of the league for holding a pocket. Overall I see: 1) There were times when Allen had time, and an open read, and took too long to pull the trigger. It's pretty common for a young QB running a complex offense to take too long on his reads, and Allen was no exception. On the other hand, you don't want Checkdown Charlie back there. It's a tradeoff, but some of it is on Allen 2) There were times when the OL just lost the "Trench War" and got pushed back into Allen's lap immediately on every snap. 3) There were times when there appeared to be either a blown assignment, or a blown protection call, and pressure was immediate - but many times, I can't make the call which it was. Someone (was it you?) pointed out that the use of no-huddle may play a role in precluding a change in protections and that may have been a reason it was abandoned. Bottom line, we had unblocked blitzers unabated to the QB too durn often and whatever the reasons for that (and there's clearly more than one), it's got to stop for Allen to take a step 2
CommonCents Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) It’s easier than y’all are making it. Beane and company can’t put their future in a guy’s hands who just bumbled through his rookie season. They can and should fix the RT position and let Ford’s situation work itself out. Good thing for them, offensive lines shuffle constantly and people get hurt, Ford will get another chance. He just can’t be the plan. No way. Edited February 9, 2020 by CommonCents
BringBackFlutie Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Niagara Bill said: Huh? Yeah. I can't make this out.
Shaw66 Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 2 hours ago, RochesterLifer said: I’m not smart enough to know if he is, or will be, the man at right tackle. `What I am is confident that Bills leadership will make the right decision and that he will be well coached. After 20 years of wishing, it is a nice feeling to have. I agree with this. Whether Ford will be the RT will depend on wherhw McBeane like his intelligence, work ethic and attitude. He clearly has the physical ability to play the position, and rookie linemen often struggle. Bills certainly will upgrade the oline. Who they get will determine whether Ford will move to guard. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said: IIRC, they were very non committal at the end of the year pressers. I had been researching Conklin a bit (just a cursory review) and what I came across was that apparently the Titans have been giving him help at RT for the past couple seasons and he really isn't that good. Haven't watched tape or anything, just read a few articles.... Agreed on "non-committal at end of season pressers". Beane praised his "versatility". Interesting on Conklin. He made a list of top-25 FA, with the comment that he was "back to his old form" in 2019 after tearing his ACL in 2017. Obviously, the Titans had ? or they wouldn't have declined his 5th year option. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001096883/article/top-25-nfl-free-agents-of-2020-no-shortage-of-intriguing-qbs 1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said: I suspect Beane and McD are as undecided on Ford as many fans are. Ford certainly didn't look like a quality NFL starter in his rookie season and it's hard to project how much - if at all - he'll improve this year. RT is still an unsolved problem and McD and Beane are probably hoping for the best from Ford but - at the same time - preparing for the worst. I expect them to bring in competition through the draft and/or free agency. That is my hope too (competition through both FA and the draft) but I think the level of the competition they bring in will tell us what they really think.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 I'd prefer they bring back Spain, keep Ford at RT, and sign/draft a LT to groom for Dakins departure in a year or two. Dawkins is a middle of the road LT -capable but not elite and is not worth top 10 money. OT play in college is so terrible now that they need a couple of years to develop. If Spain leaves, and you ascribe to the put your top 5 guys out there, then moving Ford to LG and letting Nsekhe or another guy play RT makes sense.
Recommended Posts