Bermuda Triangle Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 22 hours ago, White Linen said: I'd argue Singletary and Beasley are not defined as playmakers. They're nice complimentary players but they do not drive offenses like playmakers do. IMO, Beasley and Singletary are playmakers. I'll probably get slammed for this, but I don't see Singletary as an RB1. I like his game, and like what he brings, but I see him more as a 1A/1B guy. I don't think that he possesses breakaway speed, his hands are a little suspect, and I did see him miss a number of holes this year. I think that a Kamara-lite type of player would do wonders for the offense.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 36 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said: IMO, Beasley and Singletary are playmakers. I'll probably get slammed for this, but I don't see Singletary as an RB1. I like his game, and like what he brings, but I see him more as a 1A/1B guy. I don't think that he possesses breakaway speed, his hands are a little suspect, and I did see him miss a number of holes this year. I think that a Kamara-lite type of player would do wonders for the offense. It's one of those mysteries of life why the Bills would take him off the field for periods of time. The only answer McDermott would give the press is something to the effect of "I'll say this, it's not good to run the same back all the time", which certainly sounds as though McDermott himself doesn't think Singletary is a workhorse, every down kind of back (for whatever reason). Maybe he had lingering hamstring issues and they had him on a pitch count? Maybe he would get shaken up and need a break to recover? I dunno. Whatever the reason, that being our HC's Word on the topic, it follows we better get another good back to trade off with Singletary. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: They are not elite playmakers and that is the point some of us a driving at. The elite guys get game planned against and can take it to the house anytime they touch the ball. As of now Devin is not that guy and Beasley isn't (good player though). I agree that Singletary and Bease aren't "elite guys who get game planned against and take it to the house whenever". They are, as you say, good players - playmakers - guys who you get the ball and they can do something good with it. "Playmaker" is the exact word McDermott has used at times in pressers this past season, "we need to do a better job at getting the ball into the hands of our playmakers", and it's pretty clear he's been referring to them and to Brown. I'm sure Beane would love to draft the next Michael Thomas or DeAndre Hopkins, but it's not so simple. To use Hopkins as an example, he was drafted at #27 in 2013, the second out of 3 WR drafted (Tavon Austin at #8 and Cordarelle Patterson at #29). Clearly if GMs had a do-over, they go for Hopkins. Thomas was what, the #6 WR drafted in 2016, in the 2nd round? How many of those "guys who get game planned against and can take it to the house any time they touch the ball" are there in the league? Who are they in your opinion? Is there one in FA? Is there one in the draft? Who is he? Beane can and should shoot for that, but in the meantime, there's something to be said for adding another guy who is proven to be a playmaker, a guy who can reliably get open (or find a hole) and make a play with a ball in his hands, keep the defense from focusing so hard on the guys we already have, and give us more options. Quote Beane had already said the late rounders you mentioned likely won't make they team, he did say they could use them to move up in other rounds this year or trade them for 2021 picks. I did an exercise like 3 weeks back where we could move up in rd 1 and still package picks to have 1 pick in each rd 1 through rd4. I looked at some past trade values and the value charts. I would love to find this - I looked, so far striking out (love that search function!) PM me the link if you have a better notion where/when it was. Quote FA is going to be huge and if we can fill a couple slots it will free things up for us. The biggest issue with our offense is that you can kill us with cover 0 and keep us very contained with a straight up cover 2 d, the only player that has to be accounted for is Josh's running and placing a spy on him. The other players aren't good enough to be planned against or draw coverage to open it up for the rest, no one is a threat to take it to the house either, IMO we need that more than anything... IMO the issues with Blitz0 are 1) Josh's struggle to hit the deep post and the deep shot in general. Our WR have problems getting open against man, but Brown is fast enough to beat a guy deep and so was Foster - Josh just couldn't hit it. If Josh can come back from off-season able to nail those shots, it will open things up a lot regardless of what pieces we do or don't add. The other missing piece that I believe would help against Blitz0 is the screen play. I think we do OK against cover 2 myself, but maybe I'm wrong. When we struggle, I believe it's against pressure.
Don Otreply Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 4 hours ago, TigerJ said: I think Funchess is more athletic than Kelvin Benjamin, but I'm not a huge fan of signing him. Being that it’s been a very long time since KB was considered athletic, it isn’t saying much, that anyone is more athletic... no to fun chess ♟
stuvian Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 he's on IR with the Colts and was not activated once he recovered from injury. At best he's a camp body
Dopey Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 10 hours ago, njbuff said: Like I said, the Bills already have Duke Williams.............. What the heck they need Funchess for? They're both jags. We don't need either of them.
ScorpionZero Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 I wouldn't mind seeing Reagor speed kills and Tyler Johnson good jump ball, strong hands.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 30 minutes ago, Dopey said: They're both jags. We don't need either of them. You keep the JAG who knows your system and has already done a bit for you over the JAG from another town
JPP Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 No No No please....just draft a WR! Funchess or however you spell it will be a waste..............
Dopey Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 7 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...just curious....was he given a fair chance or was he in Dabumble's dog house?.......if I remember correclty (sorry, will have to paraphrase), Beane was quoted as saying, "the signing of Duke Williams negated drafting a WR early as a top priority".....isn't 3 starts contradictory?...... His name is Brian Daboll and if you think his "doghouse" is the reason, I have ocean front property in Kansas to sell you.
Dopey Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You keep the JAG who knows your system and has already done a bit for you over the JAG from another town If you want the wr opposite of Brown to be jag, sure. To me, it's not keeping one over the other. I didn't advocate for Devin. As I wrote, we don't need either. We need an upgrade.
rayray808 Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 We wanted Brown, but he went to the Ravens. The next year: we got him. We wanted Funchess, but he took the $$ and went to the Colts. Now he can be had for half the price: we are getting him.
billsfan_34 Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 2:31 PM, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...from what I've read, especially here from our TBD collegiate ball experts, this is the deepest WR class "in years".....I believe the Daniel Jeremiah quote was, "could be the fastest WR class in history"........so why not trade down to 27 to pick up an extra 2nd, grabbing a WR with either pick in that round?...with the anticipated depth, I'd guess there would still be some significant value available......... I would be all for that
thebandit27 Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 5 hours ago, rayray808 said: We wanted Brown, but he went to the Ravens. The next year: we got him. We wanted Funchess, but he took the $$ and went to the Colts. Now he can be had for half the price: we are getting him. We also wanted AJ Green... 1
Fan in Chicago Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 12 hours ago, ScottLaw said: Did Beane really say this? WTF? I would like to see a link to that quote 1
TheFunPolice Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 Beane tried to trade for Antonio Brown last March I think he's aiming for some impact players on offense
Reed83HOF Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 21 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I agree that Singletary and Bease aren't "elite guys who get game planned against and take it to the house whenever". They are, as you say, good players - playmakers - guys who you get the ball and they can do something good with it. "Playmaker" is the exact word McDermott has used at times in pressers this past season, "we need to do a better job at getting the ball into the hands of our playmakers", and it's pretty clear he's been referring to them and to Brown. I'm sure Beane would love to draft the next Michael Thomas or DeAndre Hopkins, but it's not so simple. To use Hopkins as an example, he was drafted at #27 in 2013, the second out of 3 WR drafted (Tavon Austin at #8 and Cordarelle Patterson at #29). Clearly if GMs had a do-over, they go for Hopkins. Thomas was what, the #6 WR drafted in 2016, in the 2nd round? How many of those "guys who get game planned against and can take it to the house any time they touch the ball" are there in the league? Who are they in your opinion? Is there one in FA? Is there one in the draft? Who is he? Beane can and should shoot for that, but in the meantime, there's something to be said for adding another guy who is proven to be a playmaker, a guy who can reliably get open (or find a hole) and make a play with a ball in his hands, keep the defense from focusing so hard on the guys we already have, and give us more options. I would love to find this - I looked, so far striking out (love that search function!) PM me the link if you have a better notion where/when it was. IMO the issues with Blitz0 are 1) Josh's struggle to hit the deep post and the deep shot in general. Our WR have problems getting open against man, but Brown is fast enough to beat a guy deep and so was Foster - Josh just couldn't hit it. If Josh can come back from off-season able to nail those shots, it will open things up a lot regardless of what pieces we do or don't add. The other missing piece that I believe would help against Blitz0 is the screen play. I think we do OK against cover 2 myself, but maybe I'm wrong. When we struggle, I believe it's against pressure. I feel like the term "playmaker" is being used interchangeably between some of us this thread and on the board. Yes a "playmaker" is someone who when they get the ball is capable of making plays; which is entirely what McD was referring to. When you, PLAYMAKER, you are talking about the guy who is the elite player who is a real threat to take it to the house or tremendously impact that game every time they touch the ball (Primetime, Irvin, Rice, Julio, Megatron, Bruce, LT, etc.) We have playmakers on offense who will help make plays and move the ball, but we don't have PLAYMAKERS on offense, not one besides Allen. I'm a bit hesitant to use 2013 as an example as it was 7 years ago. I'm not even that comfortable looking at the trade for ATL in 2010 for Julio - it was a long time ago. Mayock whiffed horribly and had him rated as the #1WR and Hopkins was rated below EJ - others actually did a fairly good job. A 5'9" slot WR should simply not be a first round choice even if you plan on using him as a return man. That is a specialized talent that can be had in the latter rounds. It is a criminal use of a RD and even RD 2 pick, that can't even be categorized as a luxury pick. Michael Thomas is a great example actually of someone who was held back by the OSU offense and he was looked at as a high-ceiling prospect, but he had a high bust factor as well and that I am assuming is what caused him to drop - his floor was very low. What he does well, aside from his overall frame and athleticism is that he has good hands, #WR size, decent speed, acceleration & agility, can create separation aggressively go after the ball, generate YAC etc., can stop on a dime and get going again. Now, he was not a great Route Runner, did not consistently put up numbers in every game, was not a great run blocking WR, didn't run many vertical plays, wasn't able to work back to plays or adjust to off target throws (He was luckily pared with the most accurate QB ever - how would he have projected with a scatter shot QB?). One of his biggest knocks was not being able to beat press coverage - fact is, even as Beane has said you don't do that a lot in college, so you have to be able to project that; which for Tavon Ausin and his build would be an issue, Thomas, not at all. Beane has also said you do have to make some assumptions and try to get more information in regards to limited route trees and such and is the WR a product of the offense they are playing in. OSU was a run-first; short and intermediate throw offense so it is natural to not see many verts, same reasoning with press coverage. When you really look at what Beane says they try to ascertain in prospects, football IQ for instance (there was concern over Thomas IQ since he was red-shirted as a sophomore after playing as a freshman). The question we would have to find answers to his can he adjust to Allen's inaccuracy and be able to work back towards to ball - could we get him there? In year 1 with our team today, I'm not sure how he would be able to develop with Josh and work on those elements of his game. A better fit would likely be a WR who can work back for the ball and be able to adjust to some degree of inaccuracy by Allen - that will help Josh. When you look at how certain players are overlooked (Thomas is ideal actually), Beane actually provides insight and the answers to what causes teams to miss, in addition to what I mentioned above, Beane does call out the fire and competitiveness as well and that is what helped drive Thomas to learn and grow; let's face it, if he didn't care he would have washed out. We have talked about Cover 0 so much the season, I am burnt out on the topic - parts were misreads on our part, inability to run certain plays, dropped passes etc. It was all bad and we sucked at it. Pressure, real or perceived is certainly an issue for us and this team, we cannot create the separation or make the reads quick enough, or blow protections that kill us. When I was speaking with Cover 2, yeah we can have guys find a spot in the zone and make a catch (minus drops and OL/pressure issues), but there is nothing than forces the other team to stay out of it, we are very easy to defend.
Da webster guy Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 3:28 PM, White Linen said: I'd argue Singletary and Beasley are not defined as playmakers. They're nice complimentary players but they do not drive offenses like playmakers do. If a RB cracks the 5 yard per carry average for the season, that's elite in my book. Better than McCaffrey, Saquon, Ingram, Jacobs, Kamara etc. The kid has great hands too. Gets 1st downs, moves the chains, scores, has elite contact balance, vision and elusiveness. One of the best playmakers in the NFL.
Reed83HOF Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Da webster guy said: If a RB cracks the 5 yard per carry average for the season, that's elite in my book. Better than McCaffrey, Saquon, Ingram, Jacobs, Kamara etc. The kid has great hands too. Gets 1st downs, moves the chains, scores, has elite contact balance, vision and elusiveness. One of the best playmakers in the NFL. He played in 12 games and started in 8, he has 151 rushes in his career and 29 receptions on 41 targets - it is a bit soon and such a limited amount of work that you can even begin to call him elite; no? It way premature to do so! 2
White Linen Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Da webster guy said: If a RB cracks the 5 yard per carry average for the season, that's elite in my book. Better than McCaffrey, Saquon, Ingram, Jacobs, Kamara etc. The kid has great hands too. Gets 1st downs, moves the chains, scores, has elite contact balance, vision and elusiveness. One of the best playmakers in the NFL. This is why I think we as a fanbase at times think too small and try too hard to fit our players into larger categories.
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