Bleacher Report predicts Funchess to Bills

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

it’s totally arbitrary nomenclature so I’m not really going to hop in this argument tooooo passionately but I think most people think of playmakers on offense as a guy that can score any time he touches it or on defense a turnover creator or clutch sack artist. 
 

turning a 2 yard loss into a 4 yard gain is certainly making a play in its own right but I think we are still waiting to see how explosive he can be in the right system with the right support. Beasley though, he’s not that dude unless you count everyone that plays as a playmaker.

honestly the player I’d be all about chasing. The human worries me on this one. I’m ok taking a few risks but he strikes me as one I’d always be expecting issues with.

Is that what you think Singletary does?  Turn 2 yard gains into 4 yard gains.  I think he does more than that

[White Linen]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Dude, I'm not the one who is making a claim that Beane said he wanted speed for Allen.  Nor am I speculating.  You asked what's the difference between speed and quickness, I gave you an answer.

 

What I've heard Beane say is that he wants to give Allen more "playmakers he can trust" and that, as quoted above, Beane said he wants guys that get separation

Straight-line speed is only one aspect of separation.  Quickness, to get defenders going one way while you go another, and size are two other aspects.  As quoted above,

General manager Brandon Beane said his goal was to get Allen and offensive coordinator Brian Daboll "a variety of weapons" this offseason, with an emphasis on "variety."

"You don't want just three or four of the same thing," Beane said. "If you just have a bunch of fast guys who separate, what happens when the weather changes?"

 

 

Singletary is a playmaker.  So is Beasley.  Decent teams have a number of playmakers other than their "top end option"

 

If you want to define "playmaker" in a limited way as "best in the game" or "top end option", You Do You but realize that's not how many people define it and I don't think it's how Beane, defines it.    We aren't gonna be trying to trade for Michael Thomas or Julio Jones.  I don't even think we're going to be deep in the running for Amari Cooper.  Doesn't mean we won't be bringing in some playmakers with different skill sets than Brown or Beasley or Motor.

 

I never once asked you for the difference between speed and quickness.  I showed you quickness doesn't exist without speed by any measure including definition.  My point was you argue about something congruent - just to argue.  

 

As it relates to playmakers - we can define them differently and that's a discussion.  Playmakers for our team vs league wide recognized for example.  Beasley wouldn't be chosen as a playmaker by any other fan but a Bills fan.  We think too small IMO and try to fit our players in bigger boxes.

 

It's my opinion Beasley is a piece that fits nicely with playmakers around him.  We're in desperate need of them.  We need another thousand yards passing yearly to be good.  

 

I suspect you're incorrect about Beane's assessment and he's looking for more than a few more Beasley types.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, White Linen said:

I never once asked you for the difference between speed and quickness.  I showed you quickness doesn't exist without speed by any measure including definition.

 

Um, no, you showed no such thing.  It's a football fact that football coaches talk about speed and quickness as different traits.  Ideally, you'd love a guy with both, but they are different aspects of athleticism.  Beasley has more quickness than speed.  So does McKensie.  Foster has more speed than quickness. 

 

As for "never once asked you" ....you said "Quickness - the quality of moving fast or doing something in a short time.  i just don't understand what you're arguing against."

Usually, when a person of goodwill trying to engage in a discussion says "I just don't understand", the common interpretation is they are asking for an explanation - in this case, about what is the difference between speed and quickness in a football sense, not just in some random dictionary definition. 

 

I accept your correction that it was not your intent, but if you're wanting to go on with "quickness = speed" because you read it in a dictionary, you aren't interested in much of a football discussion.

 

5 hours ago, White Linen said:

I suspect you're incorrect about Beane's assessment and he's looking for more than a few more Beasley types.

 

Given that I quoted Beane as saying "General manager Brandon Beane said his goal was to get Allen and offensive coordinator Brian Daboll "a variety of weapons" this offseason, with an emphasis on "variety."  "You don't want just three or four of the same thing," Beane said.", it would likely be correct that Beane is not looking for "a few more Beasley types" - he has said that he wants "a variety" and not "3 or 4 of the same thing". 

 

It would be incorrect to interpret anything I wrote as saying "he's looking for a few more Beasley types."  I'm sure Beane would rather have Michael Thomas and Julian Edelman, but those guys are top of the league for a reason - even drafting at the top of the 1st round, obtaining such a guy is not guaranteed. 

 

And yeah, Beasley is a playmaker.  Not a league-leading playmaker, but a playmaker nonetheless by any reasonable football definition.  But you go on as you wish, I'm out.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, NoSaint said:

it’s totally arbitrary nomenclature so I’m not really going to hop in this argument tooooo passionately but I think most people think of playmakers on offense as a guy that can score any time he touches it or on defense a turnover creator or clutch sack artist.

 

Well, I dunno about "most people".  I think most football guys think of a playmaker as a guy who can create a play - get open on a secondary route after he's blanketed on his first.  Make a contested catch when he's covered.  Find space in a "phone booth" of defenders and break a run.  Both Singletary and Beasley have shown that ability. 

 

Who in the NFL can "score any time he touches it"?  Christian McCaffrey, Tyreek Hill, Michael Thomas, Lamar Jackson maybe?  By that definition there must only be ~6 playmakers in the league.  I'd love the Bills to have one of those handful of true elite talents and I'm sure Beane would too, but those guys don't come on the FA market unless there's a hella flaw in the diamond (AB, Gurley) and trying to draft one is hit-and-miss.

[njbuff]

Like I said, the Bills already have Duke Williams..............

 

What the heck they need Funchess for?

[Andrew Son]

Guy's 25, has great size, and 21 career TD's.  I'd like to sign him as he won't command a big contract.  Obviously wouldn't be our only WR addition.  

[thebandit27]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, for example, Singletary ran a 4.66 40 yd dash.  Beasley in his pre-draft workouts was not exceptionally fast.  They have field vision and quickness.  They are both playmakers. 

 

The question was when Beane has said 100x that he wants speed for Allen, so expect a fast 40 time.

 

So here is a question...I'll try asking it here then I may give it its own thread if no good answer. 

 

We have 2 5th and 3 6th round picks.   Practically speaking, what value would they have in helping Beane trade up? 

 

It seems axiomatic that the first 3-4 rounds are where teams can draft talent they expect to contribute, while 5th and 6th round picks are where teams take flyers on talent that slips due to off-field issues/injury.

Those last 5 picks combined equal a late 4th per the old chart. 
 

On Rich Hill’s updated version, they equal a late 3rd.

 

I suspect you’ll see them do something like a 4th plus two 6ths to move back into the 3rd.

 

That would leave them with 1,2,3,3,5,5,6.

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by thebandit27

[SoTier]

17 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Deep class = means talent in all the rounds; not elite talent and when you look at it - the deep talent will not help much in 2020, perhaps in 2021 & 2022. They need some time to marinate and learn

 

Edit: We don't need more picks, we don't need more players to fill out a roster; we need more elite playmakers at skill positions on the offensive side of the ball; and most importantly, ones that can contribute quickly & there is only way place in the draft you find them

 

Actually, the Bills need more elite playmakers AND they need better subs at the skills positions on the offensive side.   The Bills have a decent QB, 2 decent WRs, and 1 decent RB.  They have a promising rookie TE.   Duke Johnson should not be the WR3.   Frank Gore and TJ Yeldon need to be gone next season.

 

The Bills need to be active in FA to bring in better offensive skills players for 2020 -- as well as upgrading the OL.

 

And a big absolute 'NO!' to Funchess.  He's not as good as Johnson.

[Beast]

57 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Guy's 25, has great size, and 21 career TD's.  I'd like to sign him as he won't command a big contract.  Obviously wouldn't be our only WR addition.  

Fine.

 

But then we will still need a true #1....and what do you do when we already have two 2/3 WR’s in Beasley and Brown?

 

The signing of Funchess would make no sense to me though I’d be good with it if they also draft/trade/sign someone that can be a true #1 and the price tag was right or the contract very short term.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Binghamton Beast

[NoSaint]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, I dunno about "most people".  I think most football guys think of a playmaker as a guy who can create a play - get open on a secondary route after he's blanketed on his first.  Make a contested catch when he's covered.  Find space in a "phone booth" of defenders and break a run.  Both Singletary and Beasley have shown that ability. 

 

Who in the NFL can "score any time he touches it"?  Christian McCaffrey, Tyreek Hill, Michael Thomas, Lamar Jackson maybe?  By that definition there must only be ~6 playmakers in the league.  I'd love the Bills to have one of those handful of true elite talents and I'm sure Beane would too, but those guys don't come on the FA market unless there's a hella flaw in the diamond (AB, Gurley) and trying to draft one is hit-and-miss.

kamara, mahomes, zeke, Watson, hopkins... the guys that in a 2 min drill with the game on the line you are expecting to make the biggest plays in the league with all eyes on them

 

like I said, it’s even more arbitrary than most terms we debate here as being arbitrary so I’ll hang up after this but if you count beasley, anyone that’s on the field counts as making a play. Singletary is fine going either way but I’d like to see more production (primarily points) to give an enthusiastic yes. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

kamara, mahomes, zeke, Watson, hopkins... the guys that in a 2 min drill with the game on the line you are expecting to make the biggest plays in the league with all eyes on them

 

like I said, it’s even more arbitrary than most terms we debate here as being arbitrary so I’ll hang up after this but if you count beasley, anyone that’s on the field counts as making a play. Singletary is fine going either way but I’d like to see more production (primarily points) to give an enthusiastic yes. 

 

Well, we'll have to disagree there.

 

When I go back and look at the all-22 to see who was actually open on various failed pass plays, Beasley stands out.  He's #2 to Singletary as far as needing an orange fiberglass snow-pole to help him be found.

[Sherlock Holmes]

20 hours ago, aristocrat said:

 

who?

Cooper Kupp

[Doc]

Bleacher Report.  LOL!

[Todd Allan]

I'm okay with Beane trading our first round pick next year to move up and grab his guy at WR, or even EDGE.

It's gonna be the 32nd pick of the draft, so why not!

Go Bills!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

21 hours ago, H2o said:

Duke Williams is better than Funchess already and Funchess has hit his ceiling. Pass. 

 

...just curious....was he given a fair chance or was he in Dabumble's dog house?.......if I remember correclty (sorry, will have to paraphrase), Beane was quoted as saying, "the signing of Duke Williams negated drafting a WR early as a top priority".....isn't 3 starts contradictory?......

[Reed83HOF]

20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, for example, Singletary ran a 4.66 40 yd dash.  Beasley in his pre-draft workouts was not exceptionally fast.  They have field vision and quickness.  They are both playmakers. 

 

The question was when Beane has said 100x that he wants speed for Allen, so expect a fast 40 time.

 

So here is a question...I'll try asking it here then I may give it its own thread if no good answer. 

 

We have 2 5th and 3 6th round picks.   Practically speaking, what value would they have in helping Beane trade up? 

 

It seems axiomatic that the first 3-4 rounds are where teams can draft talent they expect to contribute, while 5th and 6th round picks are where teams take flyers on talent that slips due to off-field issues/injury.

They are not elite playmakers and that is the point some of us a driving at. The elite guys get game planned against and can take it to the house anytime they touch the ball. As of now Devin is not that guy and Beasley isn't (good player though).

 

Beane had already said the late rounders you mentioned likely won't make they team, he did say they could use them to move up in other rounds this year or trade them for 2021 picks. I did an exercise like 3 weeks back where we could move up in rd 1 and still package picks to have 1 pick in each rd 1 through rd4. I looked at some past trade values and the value charts.

 

 

3 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Actually, the Bills need more elite playmakers AND they need better subs at the skills positions on the offensive side.   The Bills have a decent QB, 2 decent WRs, and 1 decent RB.  They have a promising rookie TE.   Duke Johnson should not be the WR3.   Frank Gore and TJ Yeldon need to be gone next season.

 

The Bills need to be active in FA to bring in better offensive skills players for 2020 -- as well as upgrading the OL.

 

And a big absolute 'NO!' to Funchess.  He's not as good as Johnson.

FA is going to be huge and if we can fill a couple slots it will free things up for us. The biggest issue with our offense is that you can kill us with cover 0 and keep us very contained with a straight up cover 2 d, the only player that has to be accounted for is Josh's running and placing a spy on him. The other players aren't good enough to be planned against or draw coverage to open it up for the rest, no one is a threat to take it to the house either, IMO we need that more than anything...

[TigerJ]

I think Funchess is more athletic than Kelvin Benjamin, but I'm not a huge fan of signing him.

[White Linen]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Um, no, you showed no such thing.  It's a football fact that football coaches talk about speed and quickness as different traits.  Ideally, you'd love a guy with both, but they are different aspects of athleticism.  Beasley has more quickness than speed.  So does McKensie.  Foster has more speed than quickness. 

 

As for "never once asked you" ....you said "Quickness - the quality of moving fast or doing something in a short time.  i just don't understand what you're arguing against."

Usually, when a person of goodwill trying to engage in a discussion says "I just don't understand", the common interpretation is they are asking for an explanation - in this case, about what is the difference between speed and quickness in a football sense, not just in some random dictionary definition. 

 

I accept your correction that it was not your intent, but if you're wanting to go on with "quickness = speed" because you read it in a dictionary, you aren't interested in much of a football discussion.

 

 

Given that I quoted Beane as saying "General manager Brandon Beane said his goal was to get Allen and offensive coordinator Brian Daboll "a variety of weapons" this offseason, with an emphasis on "variety."  "You don't want just three or four of the same thing," Beane said.", it would likely be correct that Beane is not looking for "a few more Beasley types" - he has said that he wants "a variety" and not "3 or 4 of the same thing". 

 

It would be incorrect to interpret anything I wrote as saying "he's looking for a few more Beasley types."  I'm sure Beane would rather have Michael Thomas and Julian Edelman, but those guys are top of the league for a reason - even drafting at the top of the 1st round, obtaining such a guy is not guaranteed. 

 

And yeah, Beasley is a playmaker.  Not a league-leading playmaker, but a playmaker nonetheless by any reasonable football definition.  But you go on as you wish, I'm out.

 

I'll make it simpler since you can't resist arguing about nothing.  I didn't mean Beasley types as in the same player and skills - for example I didn't mean a shifty 5 foot 8 TE.  

 

Obviously I meant in terms of impact.  You have over 25K posts and you think Beane is looking to add Beasley impact "playmakers", I mean it's becoming hilarious.  He had more games under 20 yds receiving than he did over 100 and Beane is scorching the earth to find more. 

[LABILLBACKER]

22 hours ago, Agent 91 said:

Who's that 

Yes that would be Amari Cooper. 

[LABILLBACKER]

20 hours ago, Buffalo86 said:

Funchess is an easy connection due to McBeane's affinity for signing underachieving ex-Panthers. They didn't want him last year, but that was for $10M. I wouldn't be surprised if this year's price was closer to half of that, though I'd still rather take a shot with Perriman & draft a WR in the first 3 rounds.

When is this ridiculous obsession for Carolina players going to end. They do realize there are 30 other teams to pilfer from. We have Brown, Beasley and Duke. Just draft 2 quality wrs in the first 4 rounds.  This draft is loaded with good wrs. Green is too old and injury prone.  Cooper wants no part of Buffalo. And definitely not on board with Funchess or Anderson.