Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo

[Buffalo716]

54 minutes ago, eanyills said:

 

You don’t think somebody from Fort Erie can get to downtown Buffalo quicker than somebody from Depew? They literally could walk into downtown if they wanted.
 

Southern Ontario is generally considered the Fort Erie-Niagara Falls-St Catherines metro. That includes places like Welland.

 

St Catherines takes about 30 minutes once you get on the QEW but it’s an easy drive. Wife is from there, made it hundreds of times. Niagara Falls ON is about a 20 minute drive into downtown Buffalo, and the Fort Erie area is literally the international first ring suburb that wasn’t.

 

Buffalo and its inner suburbs are considered a “20 minute city.” All those Canadian residents are within, or just outside by a negligible amount of time, that 20 minute window. Most of them have direct highway access to downtown Buffalo as well.

Well doesn't that take time crossing the boarder?

 

I can get to downtown from depew at my father's house in 12-16 minutes depending on traffic

 

From cheektowaga I can get downtown in 15ish minutes.. i haven't been to canada in years but assume it takes longer than that to Cross the boarder from wherever you live and go downtown

[apuszczalowski]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

That's totally an opinion and urban stadiums have not shown to bring an uptick in the economy

 

I would never NEVER NEVERRRR bar hop around the city pre gaming for a Bills game and lots won't. First the new ticket prices in the stadium will be crazy and you're going to be spending buckoo bucks, bar hopping around the city pre gaming would make it a ludicrously expensive day

 

And the majority of buffalonians are hard working paycheck to paycheck people. They will not spend that kind of money

 

Buffalo has something 99% of NFL franchises don't have , a college atmosphere and camaraderie... That all goes away if it's downtown

 

I live in the city, we don't need a stadium downtown

You may not like it or want it, but the way of tailgating in buffalo will eventually be phased out. The NFL and the Pegulas make no money letting you get tanked in the parking lot drinking and eating before the game and the legal issues that may get worse from drunks going through tables or getting hurt/killed from drinking at the game will help make the decision to phase it out. The Pegulas, and the NFL will make more money by developing an area downtown where they can bring in places where the fans can go before and after the games to spend their money (just look across the street from the arena where their development included a hotel and restaurant/bar)

 

Again, the NFL isn't a charity where they will forgo making more money because it would hurt 'hard working paycheck to paycheck people'. College Atmosphere and camraderie mean nothing when it comes to revenue which is the main goal of any business.

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Well doesn't that take time crossing the boarder?

 

I can get to downtown from depew at my father's house in 12-16 minutes depending on traffic

 

From cheektowaga I can get downtown in 15ish minutes.. i haven't been to canada in years but assume it takes longer than that to Cross the boarder from wherever you live and go downtown

Depending on what ime you get to the border. If you leave early enough, its usually not too long, maybe 5-10 minutes. Cross at around 11-12 on a Sunday of a 1pm game and your 2-3x's that wait

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Any chance Jeremy Jacobs kicks in a hundred mil for Delaware North concession rights?

 

 

....interesting....New Era has right of first refusal on naming rights for new stadium...........

[GreggTX]

Just a thought... 

 

Build a very large geodesic dome around the existing stadium about 1000 - 2000 feet outside the stadium walls and leave it open year round. Fill it with hotel rooms, night clubs, a theatre for films and/or performing arts, rides like bumper cars and a merry go round, an arcade, pool hall, sports museum including busts and highlight vids and memorabilia for all the former Bills on the Wall, gardens, press conference rooms and great restaurants with wings and beef on weck. All of which would be paid for by the merchants and would bring in year round revenues. You wouldn't really need to heat it up to 70 degrees in the Winter and could cool it in the Summer with fans and a retractable roof. I honestly don't know how feasible all of that is, but it would be a great place to hang out and have fun while protected from the rain, wind and snow. You could also put large montors  and speakers around the inner wall of the dome for games and concerts. Solar panels could cover the outer wall of the dome and add a couple wind turbines to defray the cost of all that electricity. Make it nice, though. Don't get cheap. You could charge a nominal entry fee except for ticket holders. Maybe even season's passes.

Edited February 10, 2020 by GreggTX

[Saxum]

Promises are not worth much if person promising cannot fund them.

On 2/8/2020 at 2:12 PM, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

.....oh...my apology......isn't that EXACTLY what I said?.......seems like you conveniently skipped over economy of scale and what the WNY market can bear.........skipping those tiny details, sounds you of the volition, "if we build it, they will come".....got it......

 

It is quite simple - those paying will be fans from other teams. With a new stadium and lower prices the stadium will become the mecca of road games.  It is partly why they are limited season tickets to fans out of area for they need to be able to sell those tickets to ticket agencies who will package them with the lower cost tickets with hotels, tailgates, etc.

[BillnutinHouston]

On 2/8/2020 at 5:31 PM, Binghamton Beast said:

I think it’s a renovation with what they have done to the locker rooms and the state of art workout facility built....and they will expect the County and State  to chip in a huge portion of the cost.

 

My bet is the upper decks are torn off and a smaller upper deck replaces it that wraps around the stadium in a horseshoe with the admin building being the “open end”. A huge scoreboard will be on top of that building.

 

Pretty sure NY funds renovated the locker rooms.  Pegs paid for the workout facility.

[CountDorkula]

On 2/8/2020 at 12:33 PM, T master said:

 

 

If this continues to go as it has been going only the true Bills fans that have followed the team since the 90's will be in the stadium because the younger generation being lazy as they are & being less than their tougher relatives that raised them will rather sit in a warm living room watching the game than go to a nice brand new Billion $ stadium just because there is to much effort involved !!

 

 

 

Or here me out. The average salary for a 30-35 year old worker has changed very little in the last 25 years, but the rate of inflation has gone up ten fold.

 

SO instead of spending low end $200 to go to a game(Ticket, Parking, Beer, food) you have a bunch of people over and you are spending $25 on beer and a pizza

 

Not to mention you have red-zone and fantasy football and 4K HD TVs now.

You don't have to wait in line for the bathroom.

 

 

So please tell me again what the advantage is of going to an NFL game, or any sporting event for that matter?

[BigBuff423]

No, the Bills / Pegulas need to build a dome if they want to continue to improve their brand and make the necessary jump toward the future in the NFL. On the one hand, fans can't / shouldn't clamor for a contemporary NFL Offense and then on the other hand complain when the team doesn't do everything it must to help move the team toward the current NFL trends. Buffalo is unlike virtually every other city EXCEPT: Indy, Minnesota, Detroit and Green Bay in the amount of snow they get during the season. Three of those four have domes. Green Bay probably would have had one but it IS the birthplace of the most legendary coach in the game and that's like tearing down the House that Ruth Built. Even then, eventually the Yankees knew they had to upgrade and replace the stadium. 

 

Buffalo Bills need a dome. Period. Fan experience, tv contracts, even Minnesota hosted a Super Bowl after their new stadium was built, indoor conditions are better for today's NFL, and it puts the team on the literal map again as they're getting better and better with Beane and McD. Time to get it done. 

[SoCal Deek]

Pretty simple really. You either build a downtown dome or you do a major upgrade to the existing stadium in Orchard Park (with a partial roof, concourse buildings, etc). I’m guessing the latter option will cost less than half of the former...so it all comes down to money.Period.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

Promises are not worth much if person promising cannot fund them.

 

It is quite simple - those paying will be fans from other teams. With a new stadium and lower prices the stadium will become the mecca of road games.  It is partly why they are limited season tickets to fans out of area for they need to be able to sell those tickets to ticket agencies who will package them with the lower cost tickets with hotels, tailgates, etc.

 

...good idea.....something I never thought of......

[PromoTheRobot]

8 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....interesting....New Era has right of first refusal on naming rights for new stadium...........

 

13 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Pretty simple really. You either build a downtown dome or you do a major upgrade to the existing stadium in Orchard Park (with a partial roof, concourse buildings, etc). I’m guessing the latter option will cost less than half of the former...so it all comes down to money.Period.

 

It's not just the upfront cost but the potential revenue going forward. Sure, you could build a new stripped-down stadium, or renovate, at half the cost. But what if it costs you twice the revenue in the long run because of the events you can't host?

Edited February 10, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

It's not just the upfront cost but the potential revenue going forward. Sure, you could build a new stripped-down stadium at half the cost. But what if it costs you twice the revenue in the long run because of the events you can't host?

That’s true. But....if the money isn’t there in the first place then the rate of return makes ZERO difference. I’m guessing it all comes down to available capital.

[PromoTheRobot]

4 hours ago, GreggTX said:

Just a thought... 

 

Build a very large geodesic dome around the existing stadium about 1000 - 2000 feet outside the stadium walls and leave it open year round. Fill it with hotel rooms, night clubs, a theatre for films and/or performing arts, rides like bumper cars and a merry go round, an arcade, pool hall, sports museum including busts and highlight vids and memorabilia for all the former Bills on the Wall, gardens, press conference rooms and great restaurants with wings and beef on weck. All of which would be paid for by the merchants and would bring in year round revenues. You wouldn't really need to heat it up to 70 degrees in the Winter and could cool it in the Summer with fans and a retractable roof. I honestly don't know how feasible all of that is, but it would be a great place to hang out and have fun while protected from the rain, wind and snow. You could also put large montors  and speakers around the inner wall of the dome for games and concerts. Solar panels could cover the outer wall of the dome and add a couple wind turbines to defray the cost of all that electricity. Make it nice, though. Don't get cheap. You could charge a nominal entry fee except for ticket holders. Maybe even season's passes.

 

I don't think you realize what an engineering feat a dome like that would be. Probably multiple-times more expensive than a simple domed stadium.

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

That’s true. But....if the money isn’t there in the first place then the rate of return makes ZERO difference. I’m guessing it all comes down to available capital.

 

There's always money, as the current government has shown us.

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

There's always money, as the current government has shown us.

The debate isn’t about the existence of money. It’s about where the government chooses to spend it. If the State gets involved it’ll be the downtown dome option and labeled as a revitalization project. If not, the Pegulas and the County will choose Door #2 and stick with the less expensive Orchard Park major renovation. But something has to happen fast. The current economic boom won’t last forever.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

The debate isn’t about the existence of money. It’s about where the government chooses to spend it. If the State gets involved it’ll be the downtown dome option and labeled as a revitalization project. If not, the Pegulas and the County will choose Door #2 and stick with the less expensive Orchard Park major renovation. But something has to happen fast. The current economic boom won’t last forever.

 

I'll bet on the former. It's one reason why Cuomo wants that legal ganja.

[SoCal Deek]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I'll bet on the former. It's one reason why Cuomo wants that legal ganja.

We’ll see. I’m guessing we’ll know by September. 

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

We’ll see. I’m guessing we’ll know by September. 

 

About legal pot or a new stadium? I think both announcements are just around the corner.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

10 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I'll bet on the former. It's one reason why Cuomo wants that legal ganja.

 

….and now this...…...

 

Prostitution could become legal throughout NY

 

WHECTV
Created: February 10, 2020 06:08 AM

ALBANY, N.Y. (WHEC) — State lawmakers have reintroduced a bill on prostitution in the senate after it failed to make it out of committee last year.

The law would make it legal to both buy and sell sex in most cases.

Sex workers argue the laws currently in place only punish them and do not impact the people who use their services.

If passed, New York would become the first state to decriminalize sex work. Right now, Nevada is the only state where prostitution is legal, though not statewide.

https://www.whec.com/livingston-county-ny-news/prostitution--committee-legalize/5639139/?cat=565

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

I't's frustrating when people mis-quote statistics like this.   The City of Buffalo makes up only a quarter of the Buffalo metro area.   And there are 4-5 million people within a 90 minute drive of Orchard Park...

 

U.S. Population – Metropolitan Statistical Area Population

Click on heading to sort.

Rank	Metropolitan Statistical Area	2010 Census	2018 Estimate	Growth (%)
1	New York-Newark-Jersey City, NY-NJ-PA	19,567,410	19,979,477	2.1
2	Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA	12,828,837	13,291,486	3.6
3	Chicago-Naperville-Elgin, IL-IN-WI	9,461,105	9,498,716	0.4
4	Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX	6,426,214	7,539,711	17.3
5	Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington, PA-NJ-DE-MD	5,965,343	6,096,372	2.2
6	Houston-The Woodlands-Sugar Land, TX	5,920,416	6,997,384	18.2
7	Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV	5,636,232	6,249,950	10.9
8	Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm Beach, FL	5,564,635	6,198,782	11.4
9	Atlanta-Sandy Springs-Roswell, GA	5,286,728	5,949,951	12.5
10	Boston-Cambridge-Newton, MA-NH	4,552,402	4,875,390	7.1
11	San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward, CA	4,335,391	4,729,484	9.1
12	Detroit-Warren-Dearborn, MI	4,296,250	4,326,442	0.7
13	Riverside-San Bernardino-Ontario, CA	4,224,851	4,622,361	9.4
14	Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ	4,192,887	4,857,962	15.9
15	Seattle-Tacoma-Bellevue, WA	3,439,809	3,939,363	14.5
16	Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington, MN-WI	3,348,859	3,629,190	8.4
17	San Diego-Carlsbad, CA	3,095,313	3,343,364	8
18	St. Louis, MO-IL	2,787,701	2,805,465	0.6
19	Tampa-St. Petersburg-Clearwater, FL	2,783,243	3,142,663	12.9
20	Baltimore-Columbia-Towson, MD	2,710,489	2,802,789	3.4
21	Denver-Aurora-Lakewood, CO	2,543,482	2,932,415	15.3
22	Pittsburgh, PA	2,356,285	2,324,743	-1.3
23	San Juan-Carolina-Caguas, PR	2,350,126	2,023,237	-13.9
24	Portland-Vancouver-Hillsboro, OR-WA	2,226,009	2,478,810	11.4
25	Charlotte-Concord-Gastonia, NC-SC	2,217,012	2,569,213	15.9
26	Sacramento--Roseville--Arden-Arcade, CA	2,149,127	2,345,210	9.1
27	San Antonio-New Braunfels, TX	2,142,508	2,518,036	17.5
28	Orlando-Kissimmee-Sanford, FL	2,134,411	2,572,962	20.5
29	Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN	2,114,580	2,190,209	3.6
30	Cleveland-Elyria, OH	2,077,240	2,057,009	-1
31	Kansas City, MO-KS	2,009,342	2,143,651	6.7
32	Las Vegas-Henderson-Paradise, NV	1,951,269	2,231,647	14.4
33	Columbus, OH	1,901,974	2,106,541	10.8
34	Indianapolis-Carmel-Anderson, IN	1,887,877	2,048,703	8.5
35	San Jose-Sunnyvale-Santa Clara, CA	1,836,911	1,999,107	8.8
36	Austin-Round Rock, TX	1,716,289	2,168,316	26.3
37	Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC	1,676,822	1,728,733	3.1
38	Nashville-Davidson--Murfreesboro--Franklin, TN	1,670,890	1,930,961	15.6
39	Providence-Warwick, RI-MA	1,600,852	1,621,337	1.3
40	Milwaukee-Waukesha-West Allis, WI	1,555,908	1,576,113	1.3
41	Jacksonville, FL	1,345,596	1,534,701	14.1
42	Memphis, TN-MS-AR	1,324,829	1,350,620	1.9
43	Oklahoma City, OK	1,252,987	1,396,445	11.4
44	Louisville/Jefferson County, KY-IN	1,235,708	1,297,301	5
45	Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT	1,212,381	1,206,300	-0.5
46	Richmond, VA	1,208,101	1,306,172	8.1
47	New Orleans-Metairie, LA	1,189,866	1,270,399	6.8
48	Buffalo-Cheektowaga-Niagara Falls, NY	1,135,509	1,130,152	-0.5
49	Raleigh, NC	1,130,490	1,362,540	20.5
50	Birmingham-Hoover, AL	1,128,047	1,151,801	2.1
51	Salt Lake City, UT	1,087,873	1,222,540	12.4
52	Rochester, NY	1,079,671	1,071,082	-0.8
53	Grand Rapids-Wyoming, MI	988,938	1,069,405	8.1
54	Tucson, AZ	980,263	1,039,073	6
55	Urban Honolulu, HI	953,207	980,080	2.8
56	Tulsa, OK	937,478	993,797	6
57	Fresno, CA	930,450	994,400	6.9
58	Worcester, MA-CT	916,980	947,866	3.4
59	Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT	916,829	943,823	2.9
60	Albuquerque, NM	887,077	915,927	3.3

 

How was it misquoted?  Buffalo's metro area does not include Rochester---or Toronto for that matter...no more than New York metro includes Philly (only 80 miles away)

 

 By your measure, it's at least an hour drive for 3.5 of the 5 million people you have included as "Buffalo".  Still empty seats in December.

 

 

[Mike in Horseheads]

Can we at least have a moat?