Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I think you need to accept that part of the reason for the move is to generate more income for the team. Yes, it will probably be more expensive in many cases. There will be a way to do it on a budget, but it will be harder not to share more cash with the Bills in some way. 

 

We have some close friends living in Jacksonville with 6-8 season tickets. Four of those seats are outdoors, but with access to a club area with free beer/wine and food (liquor is extra). That was where we did our “tailgating”.  This is not steamed hot dogs, They have carving stations and I enjoyed the sautéed sea bass. Those tickets were $380 about 15-20 years ago, and that area was full. This is Jacksonville!  

 

It will not be cheaper, but there will be affordable options if you know what you’re doing. That’s just the way I see it. Time will tell. 

I still don't think it's set in stone it goes Downtown but it's totally possible.. and that is cool what they did in Jacksonville and would definitely make the experience better. 380 per game or for seasons back then?

 

And I don't mind spending money on our Bills , they have been my favorite thing since I was an infant... As I'm sure you read in the thread I am advocating for the lower income families in Buffalo thats it

 

The renovations 6-7 years ago was footed 75-80% by taxpayers

 

If that happens again and the choice is between a 550 million dollar stadium in OP or 1 billion downtown the smart choice is the former

@beerme1are you stalking me or something bro cus your on every one of my posts In this thread 

 

I don't need 10 notifications from you

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Augie]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I still don't think it's set in stone it goes Downtown but it's totally possible.. and that is cool what they did in Jacksonville and would definitely make the experience better. 380 per game or for seasons back then?

 

And I don't mind spending money on our Bills , they have been my favorite thing since I was an infant... As I'm sure you read in the thread I am advocating for the lower income families in Buffalo

 

The renovations 6-7 years ago was footed 75-80% by taxpayers

 

If that happens again and the choice is between a 550 million dollar stadium in OP or 1 billion downtown the smart choice is the former

 

The $380 was the face value on the game day ticket he gave each of us to get in. He’s an insurance guy and does extremely well. I was his banker in the early days when he was just trying to get started. He laughed at the lengths I went to keep him afloat when he needed to keep rolling that note to buy his copier. Seems hysterical looking back. It was like $2,500 in 1988 dollars. Adjusted for inflation, he sharts more than than now! 

 

 Great guy, he didn’t forget and our families were close. My wife worked with him too. 

 

That kind of invitation leads to TONS of business for him. He’s no fool, and that price was not ridiculous for sea bass, unlimited drinks and great seats. Now, will that work in WNY? 

 

.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Augie

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

The $380 was the face value on the game day ticket he gave each of us to get in. He’s an insurance guy and does extremely well. I was his banker in the early days when he was just trying to get started. He laughed at the lengths I went to keep him afloat when he needed to keep rolling that note to buy his copier. Seems hysterical now! Great guy, he didn’t forget and our families were close. My wife worked with him too. 

 

That kind of invitation leads to TONS of business for him. He’s no fool, and that price was not ridiculous for sea bass, unlimited drinks and great seats. Now, will that work in WNY? 

Idk but that sounds like a great time! And I wouldn't mind that! Idk if we have fresh sea bass readily available in Buffalo tho

[beerme1]

39 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

If that happens again and the choice is between a 550 million dollar stadium in OP or 1 billion downtown the smart choice is the former

@beerme1are you stalking me or something bro cus your on every one of my posts In this thread 

 

I don't need 10 notifications from you

 

 

No dude. I just can 't believe how bad your takes are and how much your spewing them. It's beyond super trolling level.

I disagree with so much of what you say and you say so much. I don't have the time to reply so a simple meh to most but not all of your posts seems to be shining a light on you being a super troll. I've lived in the city, a lot of us actually do and or have and take exception to so many of your repeated views. But you put them forth at rapid fire pace therefore super troll level and I can't keep up. 

I haven't commented on all of your posts because I actually do get some of your viewpoint's. But the veracity and repetitiveness of them leaves me with a simple, Meh. You must be trolling. Or you are Larry Quinn.   

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, beerme1 said:

 

No dude. I just can 't believe how bad your takes are and how much your spewing them. It's beyond super trolling level.

I disagree with so much of what you say and you say so much. I don't have the time to reply so a simple meh to most but not all of your posts seems to be shining a light on you being a super troll. I've lived in the city, a lot of us actually do and or have and take exception to so many of your repeated views. But you put them forth at rapid fire pace therefore super troll level and I can't keep up. 

I haven't commented on all of your posts because I actually do get some of your viewpoint's. But the veracity and repetitiveness of them leaves me with a simple, Meh. You must be trolling. Or you are Larry Quinn.   

Everybody has opinions

 

Troll? Everybody on this board knows I'm not a troll as a poster so that's laughable

 

You don't like my take on this issue? It's your right

 

But to call me out as a super troll is laughable when the community knows that isn't true

 

I got like 10 meh reactions today and they were like all from you..ive been an everyday poster on this board for years and you just doubled my meh reactions! That's literally how little meh reactions I've had cus I'm not a troll

 

Like dude,  you don't like my opinion on the stadium , guess what I'm not the only one who thinks like that ... It's your opinion.. my family's been season ticket holders for 2 generations I can have an opinion

 

And you take offense to my view of the city I love and lived in my whole life? It's a beautiful city that has a poverty problem..

 

I see you taking exception and this random buffalobills guy that I have never interacted with once in years. Not ALOT of people lol

 

Buffalo is WAYY more than downtown or Allentown or Elmwood village... The east and west sides are impoverished and lots of other parts aren't good as well. The drug and gang problem is crazy, I have a house on the Eastside I know

 

I'm not even knocking my city, that's why I never left but it's the truth that it's residents are struggling in a lot of places and statistics back it

 

Sure Elmwood village and Allentown and North Buffalo are gorgeous and doing good economically but that isn't all of buffalo

 

My POINT this whole time was taxpayers footed 75% of the last refurb .. if pegula foots 75% it can go anywhere and I will be happy.. if taxpayers are footing that 50-75% it needs to be economically feasible for all.. and a stadium in OP will probably be cheaper than one downtown... If it's not put it wherever he wants

 

I think thats very reasonable and not outlandish at all.. and when I get quoted I usually respond so I'm sorry if you found me repetitive

 

We should agree to disagree and leave it at that

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Mr. WEO]

9 hours ago, eanyills said:

Re: Convention Center

 

I know for a fact that the city put feelers out to local developers in regards to a new convention center. There was never an official RFP issued but a bigger and modernized convention center is on the city’s radar.

 

Now, the city’s broke and I’m not sure how high up a new convention center is on the state’s priority list of things to help Buffalo out with considering the looming stadium issue and Metro Rail expansion but it’s definitely something local leadership is pursuing on some level.

 

That said, there’s a lot of things that the city has and still is “pursuing” that never got off the ground. The city’s been sitting on the Mohawk Ramp RFP for like three years now so nothing comes quickly in this city.

 

So I’m not saying it’s a good idea or that it’s going to ever happen, just that the city has previously expressed interest in getting a new convention center built.

 

No doubt it is.  Convention Centers are a Mayor's "go to" proposal when they need a signature project, promising all kinds of benefits for the locals from having a shiny new center.  The problem, besides the obvious fact that Buffalo already has one, is that the US is oversaturated with new convention space square footage with a fixed amount of large events that would fill such spaces. So it comes down to cities competing with other cities for these types of events.  There aren't enough events to go around and Buffalo will not be high on many lists.  In fact, Buffalo isn't in the US top 50 destinations for conventions.  There is no value so no point in building a new convention center. 

 

Proven waste of money.

[buffalobillsfootball]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

No doubt it is.  Convention Centers are a Mayor's "go to" proposal when they need a signature project, promising all kinds of benefits for the locals from having a shiny new center.  The problem, besides the obvious fact that Buffalo already has one, is that the US is oversaturated with new convention space square footage with a fixed amount of large events that would fill such spaces. So it comes down to cities competing with other cities for these types of events.  There aren't enough events to go around and Buffalo will not be high on many lists.  In fact, Buffalo isn't in the US top 50 destinations for conventions.  There is no value so no point in building a new convention center. 

 

Proven waste of money.

Got it - convention centers are a waste of money.
 

So what’s your beef with a downtown stadium?

[ColoradoBills]

17 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

Some sort of transportation from other areas would be huge.  Metro rail gets you like... 15-20 minute walk away - which isn't really ideal.  Buses with traffic down there... ubers... some semblence of tailgaiting - its all tough.  Good thing Pegulas have a strong relationship with local government.  

 

That's currently true.  My point was to add a station at the stadium instead of turning them around at Michigan Ave.

The Pegula's will be releasing their study soon.  It will be interesting to see what they think the options are.

[Gordio]

19 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

If Buffalo/Erie county wants a new convention center to add to the one they already have (and which is not fully booked), they are free to do so.  It would still leave the stadium empty for the vast majority of the year....because there simply are not enough events that require a stadium venue.  Stadiums don't "double as conventions centers" very often. At Lucas Oil, the convention center  is  a different but connected facility.

 

So why would Pegula want to contribute to a convention center attached to his stadium---or have it linked at all to a handout for his stadium?  The added cost would doom his request.

 

Why would Erie/Buffalo/NYS want to pony up for another convention center AND a chunk of the stadium cost?  To host a few more (smaller) convention events that the current convention center may be missing out on?

 

This makes little sense.

 

Also, "Dallas" and NYC (NJ?) didn't build those stadiums.

 

 

The only way building a billion dollar dome downtown would make sense if Buffalo would get a piece of the big events by building such a place like the Super Bowl & the NCAA Final Four.  Since those events are highly unlikely to ever consider Buffalo, spending this kind of coin on a new stadium makes little sense.  Do a refurb of the Ralph for half the cost.  

 

& just for the record I have a friend who does some work for Pegula & he told me two years the stadium is going to be downtown where the Perry Projects are & it is going to be a dome.  That is what Pegs want.  

 

I haven't talked to him in awhile so maybe plans have changed but he was pretty certain about it.  

Edited February 13, 2020 by Gordio

[ColoradoBills]

I posted this in another thread but I should put it here.

 

Just an observation (especially with the stadium cost talks), maybe it's time the the players and owners address chipping in to help fund

where they work.  5 million each in concessions from the owners and players per team per year would go a long way in assuring teams

could foot a large part of the bill.

 

32 teams placing 10 million a year into a stadium fund is 320M per year.  Adding 1 million (10% of average 10 million cap increase) will quickly

bring that number even higher.

 

The league should be funding new stadiums by at least 50% IMO.

FWIW

[buffalobillsfootball]

And laughable - look what is in today's Buffalo News:

Study recommends new $441M convention center on Delaware Avenue

Link 

 

[apuszczalowski]

1 minute ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

And laughable - look what is in today's Buffalo News:

Study recommends new $441M convention center on Delaware Avenue

Link 

 

 

If they go the new stadium route, this will be part of it, it will be built as a Stadium and convention centre to help costs and get both things built.

[RochesterRob]

12 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

 

If they go the new stadium route, this will be part of it, it will be built as a Stadium and convention centre to help costs and get both things built.

  With any luck there will not be any open dates for conventions during January's.  Could be a problem for the convention folks.

[Mr. WEO]

20 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

But that would mean the public would be on the hook for far more than just stadium money.  They would have to build another convention center as well.

 

In the end, they would have a massive financial commitment to an underbooked convention (2 of them now) center and part of a football stadium they would not own.

 

That would be a very bad use of public funds.  It has been proven over and over that financing stadiums and adding convention center square footage are horrible public investments.  This would be the daily double of waste.

 

Let Pegula build the stadium downtown...or wherever he wants.  Maybe toss him a few exit ramps or whatnot if needed for access.  But that's it. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

Got it - convention centers are a waste of money.
 

So what’s your beef with a downtown stadium?

 

I don't have one.  See the bolded above.

 

54 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

 

If they go the new stadium route, this will be part of it, it will be built as a Stadium and convention centre to help costs and get both things built.

 

Sure---what better way to convince the legislature to fund a big chunk of one waste of taxpayer money when you can combine it with another, bigger waste of tax payer money?  Makes sense!!

[Jrb1979]

2 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

 

The only way building a billion dollar dome downtown would make sense if Buffalo would get a piece of the big events by building such a place like the Super Bowl & the NCAA Final Four.  Since those events are highly unlikely to ever consider Buffalo, spending this kind of coin on a new stadium makes little sense.  Do a refurb of the Ralph for half the cost.  

 

& just for the record I have a friend who does some work for Pegula & he told me two years the stadium is going to be downtown where the Perry Projects are & it is going to be a dome.  That is what Pegs want.  

 

I haven't talked to him in awhile so maybe plans have changed but he was pretty certain about it.  

A refurb is putting lipstick on a pig. A new stadium brings higher revenues which is what the NFL and the Bills would like. Ticket prices could easily double with a new stadium. If they move downtown, they limit tailgating to Bills owned lots and limits the table slamming and ketchup dousing. 

[purple haze]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

That's currently true.  My point was to add a station at the stadium instead of turning them around at Michigan Ave.

The Pegula's will be releasing their study soon.  It will be interesting to see what they think the options are.

I believe when the Pegula's have a press conference to talk stadium it will be to tell us what they are doing, not the options.

[ColoradoBills]

5 minutes ago, purple haze said:

I believe when the Pegula's have a press conference to talk stadium it will be to tell us what they are doing, not the options.

 

You bring up a good observation.  Will the Pegula's show all the options and give their preferred plan OR say this is it (take it or leave it)?

If I was still a taxpayer in Erie County I would like to have a say in it but that's just me.

 

There seems to be a lot of options.  Refurbish New Era, build another in OP, build downtown, build somewhere else, domed or open.

All will have pros and cons but once again your point is interesting!

[RiotAct]

On 2/8/2020 at 2:40 PM, JustWinPlease said:

They need a new stadium and it needs to be put downtown.

#BuffaloRising #BuffaLOVE #OneBuffalo #Rebirth #AtAnyCost

6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

You bring up a good observation.  Will the Pegula's show all the options and give their preferred plan OR say this is it (take it or leave it)?

If I was still a taxpayer in Erie County I would like to have a say in it but that's just me.

that’s just crazy talk

[Gordio]

28 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

A refurb is putting lipstick on a pig. A new stadium brings higher revenues which is what the NFL and the Bills would like. Ticket prices could easily double with a new stadium. If they move downtown, they limit tailgating to Bills owned lots and limits the table slamming and ketchup dousing. 

 

 

I keep hearing how revenues will double with a new Stadium but how?  You think it is going be an easy sell for lower bowl tickets to be priced well over $200 in the new stadium.  That maybe the case for a year or two until the novelty wore off.  Like I said, I doubt people would be willing to pay double the price of a ticket just because we have a stadium downtown & I highly doubt corporations around here are going to be willing to pony up double the price for suites.  I just don't see it happening.  I think it is a really flawed way of thinking.  You need to know your market.   

[ColoradoBills]

19 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

#BuffaloRising #BuffaLOVE #OneBuffalo #Rebirth #AtAnyCost

that’s just crazy talk

 

LOL.  I forget how different things are here in the wild wild west.

We vote on all tax increases.