Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo

[BillsFan692]

On 2/8/2020 at 12:07 PM, purple haze said:

You can make all the arguments and post all the articles you want to. A new stadium or a major renovation will happen; it will cost what it costs and public money, in some form, be it for the actual stadium or serious infrastructure improvements, will be a part of it.    This Is pro sports in the modern era: generate "more" money or get out of the game.  

 

The Pegula's aren't getting out of the game,  and were aware of the stadium issue when they bought the team.  They have helped build up parts of downtown, and have a lot of real estate holdings downtown.  How many more dots do you need to connect what's going to happen?

Pretty sure there is zero chance pegs spend billions moving stadium downtown. Much more likely to renovate. That is unless the public money gets coughed up.

 

Pegs could be using the threat to stay in OP in order to wrangle public funding for a move down town.

 

No stadium down town could be ready in the forseeable future it will take years after taking years.

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

If they start winning playoff games, they won't need Canadians to fill the seats....

 

What would happen the other 357 nights?

Not to mention there isn't NEARLY enough bars and restaurants downtown to satisfy everybody

 

No where near enough to fit 70,000.. not even close

Edited February 12, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Ok, Cincinnati (where I went to school and just got back from.....apparently I’m not 20 anymore!)  or any other city. You say Buffalo has “no such attraction”, but on my most recent trips back to Buffalo I’ve been quite pleased with all the cool areas right downtown to enjoy. No, it’s not Nashville or Vegas (who is?), but I think you are short selling what it is and what it could become. Have some vision, I think the Pegulas can see it. Time will tell.  

 

The stadium does not have to fully support the surrounding environment. The surrounding area enhances the stadium. But THAT is the point you apparently refuse to even consider, so this is hopeless. 

 

Again....Bills in WNY and I’m a happy camper. 

There is not nearly enough bars or restaurants downtown to satisfy 70,000+ thousand fans

 

And even if some pop up it will STILL not be enough imo.. there's just way too few for that number

 

A Friday or Saturday night downtown with 15-20k people and it's jammed pack and can hardly get a drink or spot.. I couldn't imagine 70k

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Buffalo716

[steven50]

A few points I would like to make. Just my 2 cents.

 

There will be a new stadium and it will probably be a covered stadium. If your a die hard snow fan you can grumble all you want but they know your still going to the game. They have already started with the catered tailgating. Your just gonna have to be a little more civilized. The days of table slamming your drunk buddy in the parking lot are coming to an end.

 

In the same vein, more people will come because its in a climate controlled environment then will stop coming because they can no longer get their picture taken in the snow with their shirt off while guzzling a beer.

 

Saying "we are buffalo we cant afford higher ticket prices" is just ridiculous. According to this article:

 

Quote

 

BUFFALO, N.Y. — Bills' season tickets are projected to go up an average of $4.11 per game, according to a letter the team sent to season ticket holders. 

The increase makes the average price of a season ticket $93.67 per game, according to the team. The Bills are only one of three teams in the NFL where the average price of a ticket is under $100.

 

 

The average price is $94. Jack that up 50% to $150 and all you did was order Pizza and wings from La nova. Its 8 games a year people. I order Pizza and wings more then 8 times a year. I bet most people attending Bills games do too. Some of you guys carry this poverty thing way to far.

 

......and finally I really dont understand this sentiment some people have with Orchard Park. It isn't Lambeu field, the Bills where not born in Orchard park. Why dont I ever see anyone saying the bills should be at the old War Memorial site? That is the place were Daryle Lamonica, Cookie Gilchrist. Jack Kemp, Elbert Dubenion and Paul Maguire won AFL championships in 1964 and 1965. If its all about being a purist and history then that is the place you should want the stadium.

 

It isn't a question of "if"they build a new stadium its when.

[Buffalo716]

13 minutes ago, steven50 said:

A few points I would like to make. Just my 2 cents.

 

There will be a new stadium and it will probably be a covered stadium. If your a die hard snow fan you can grumble all you want but they know your still going to the game. They have already started with the catered tailgating. Your just gonna have to be a little more civilized. The days of table slamming your drunk buddy in the parking lot are coming to an end.

 

In the same vein, more people will come because its in a climate controlled environment then will stop coming because they can no longer get their picture taken in the snow with their shirt off while guzzling a beer.

 

Saying "we are buffalo we cant afford higher ticket prices" is just ridiculous. According to this article:

 

 

The average price is $94. Jack that up 50% to $150 and all you did was order Pizza and wings from La nova. Its 8 games a year people. I order Pizza and wings more then 8 times a year. I bet most people attending Bills games do too. Some of you guys carry this poverty thing way to far.

 

......and finally I really dont understand this sentiment some people have with Orchard Park. It isn't Lambeu field, the Bills where not born in Orchard park. Why dont I ever see anyone saying the bills should be at the old War Memorial site? That is the place were Daryle Lamonica, Cookie Gilchrist. Jack Kemp, Elbert Dubenion and Paul Maguire won AFL championships in 1964 and 1965. If its all about being a purist and history then that is the place you should want the stadium.

 

It isn't a question of "if"they build a new stadium its when.

Well first because war memorial isn't in the greatest neighborhood

 

And 56 bucks for pizza and wings? What are you serving 20 people?

 

Unless I was having a party I would never spend that much on pizza and wings and I order pizza and wings a lot honestly

 

And yes obviously you are doing great money wise.. you know who isn't ? Most people living in the city

 

The poverty rate is insane and they don't need that burden .. buffalo is one of the most impoverished places in the country

 

A poverty rate of 30% and a staggering child poverty rate of close to 50%

 

You and me and probably most here are probably doing well enough but the people in the city by and large aren't

[May Day 10]

3 hours ago, steven50 said:

A few points I would like to make. Just my 2 cents.

 

There will be a new stadium and it will probably be a covered stadium. If your a die hard snow fan you can grumble all you want but they know your still going to the game. They have already started with the catered tailgating. Your just gonna have to be a little more civilized. The days of table slamming your drunk buddy in the parking lot are coming to an end.

 

In the same vein, more people will come because its in a climate controlled environment then will stop coming because they can no longer get their picture taken in the snow with their shirt off while guzzling a beer.

 

Saying "we are buffalo we cant afford higher ticket prices" is just ridiculous. According to this article:

 

 

The average price is $94. Jack that up 50% to $150 and all you did was order Pizza and wings from La nova. Its 8 games a year people. I order Pizza and wings more then 8 times a year. I bet most people attending Bills games do too. Some of you guys carry this poverty thing way to far.

 

......and finally I really dont understand this sentiment some people have with Orchard Park. It isn't Lambeu field, the Bills where not born in Orchard park. Why dont I ever see anyone saying the bills should be at the old War Memorial site? That is the place were Daryle Lamonica, Cookie Gilchrist. Jack Kemp, Elbert Dubenion and Paul Maguire won AFL championships in 1964 and 1965. If its all about being a purist and history then that is the place you should want the stadium.

 

It isn't a question of "if"they build a new stadium its when.

 

Raising the prices a few bucks every year to meet demand is fine.  Bills tickets are actually still vastly under-priced for a relevant NFL team in our market.

 

when I say "Buffalo cant afford it", it is more in reference to the highly priced clubs, corporate suites, and amenities that all of these new facilities are built around.  Nor do typical football fans around here want those things.  

We do not have the corporate or white collar upscale base to support high priced bells and whistles to make building them worthwhile.  

[PromoTheRobot]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

There is not nearly enough bars or restaurants downtown to satisfy 70,000+ thousand fans

 

And even if some pop up it will STILL not be enough imo.. there's just way too few for that number

 

A Friday or Saturday night downtown with 15-20k people and it's jammed pack and can hardly get a drink or spot.. I couldn't imagine 70k

 

 

 

People will still tailgate. But those tailgates will be spread around in scattered lots. 

[Augie]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

There is not nearly enough bars or restaurants downtown to satisfy 70,000+ thousand fans

 

And even if some pop up it will STILL not be enough imo.. there's just way too few for that number

 

A Friday or Saturday night downtown with 15-20k people and it's jammed pack and can hardly get a drink or spot.. I couldn't imagine 70k

 

 

 

That’s alright, YOU don’t have to come up with the plan. I think somebody will be able to find a mix of tailgating and bars/restaurants to make it work. They certainly know this is an issue, and also an opportunity to make more money. 

 

Again, I don’t care where they play as long as it’s still in WNY. I’m not afraid of the inevitable change, whether it be in OP or downtown. Smart people are working on this. 

[noacls]

5 hours ago, steven50 said:

A few points I would like to make. Just my 2 cents.

 

There will be a new stadium and it will probably be a covered stadium. If your a die hard snow fan you can grumble all you want but they know your still going to the game. They have already started with the catered tailgating. Your just gonna have to be a little more civilized. The days of table slamming your drunk buddy in the parking lot are coming to an end.

 

In the same vein, more people will come because its in a climate controlled environment then will stop coming because they can no longer get their picture taken in the snow with their shirt off while guzzling a beer.

 

Saying "we are buffalo we cant afford higher ticket prices" is just ridiculous. According to this article:

 

 

The average price is $94. Jack that up 50% to $150 and all you did was order Pizza and wings from La nova. Its 8 games a year people. I order Pizza and wings more then 8 times a year. I bet most people attending Bills games do too. Some of you guys carry this poverty thing way to far.

 

......and finally I really dont understand this sentiment some people have with Orchard Park. It isn't Lambeu field, the Bills where not born in Orchard park. Why dont I ever see anyone saying the bills should be at the old War Memorial site? That is the place were Daryle Lamonica, Cookie Gilchrist. Jack Kemp, Elbert Dubenion and Paul Maguire won AFL championships in 1964 and 1965. If its all about being a purist and history then that is the place you should want the stadium.

 

It isn't a question of "if"they build a new stadium its when.

It's not 8 games its 10, dont forget preseason. No discount on them. 

[LabattBlue]

51 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

That’s alright, YOU don’t have to come up with the plan. I think somebody will be able to find a mix of tailgating and bars/restaurants to make it work. They certainly know this is an issue, and also an opportunity to make more money. 

 

Again, I don’t care where they play as long as it’s still in WNY. I’m not afraid of the inevitable change, whether it be in OP or downtown. Smart people are working on this. 

...and if the new stadium is downtown and domed(which I believe it will be), a large chunk of fans will go right from their car to the stadium, and enjoy their pregame festivities inside the stadium.  The notion by some(not you) that there needs to be establishments to hold 70,000 fans is ridiculous, and using this as a reason to keep the stadium in OP is not well thought out. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by LabattBlue

[buffalobillsfootball]

It’s so funny - you can easily tell who is a Bills fan or just a tailgating fan. The tailgating fans fail to see the big picture... 

 

Don’t get me wrong - I love tailgating but I love the Bills more. In order to keep up in the NFL - the Bills need to bring in more corporate revenue - and that revenue stream is Southern Ontario.

[Saxum]

4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Well first because war memorial isn't in the greatest neighborhood

 

And 56 bucks for pizza and wings? What are you serving 20 people?

 

Unless I was having a party I would never spend that much on pizza and wings and I order pizza and wings a lot honestly

 

And yes obviously you are doing great money wise.. you know who isn't ? Most people living in the city

 

The poverty rate is insane and they don't need that burden .. buffalo is one of the most impoverished places in the country

 

A poverty rate of 30% and a staggering child poverty rate of close to 50%

 

You and me and probably most here are probably doing well enough but the people in the city by and large aren't

 

"Exaggeration is a tool of someone unarmed in battle of wits" was something which my debate teacher told us repeatedly.

 

(Maybe he is not exaggerating. He could have gone to Florida schools and be really bad in math or tips very well based on interest in his trust fund he has set aside to pay for PSLs)

[buffalobillsfootball]

11 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

If they start winning playoff games, they won't need Canadians to fill the seats....

 

What would happen the other 357 nights?

 

You don't get it - its not SEATS - it's SUITES and marketing dollars that the Pegula's want from the huge corporate presence in Southern Ontario.

 

And the other 357 nights? Buffalo needs a new convention center AND a new stadium - the area will NEVER get funding for BOTH in our lifetime.  So make the stadium multi-use.

 

Keep up bro

[apuszczalowski]

A few things to go with what's been said

- A new stadium won't be built to hold 70k fans in Buffalo. The new stadium will be built smaller and probably hold close to the lower amount of what they other stadiums hold.

- tailgating as everyone knows it now in OP will be phased out by the state and the league, the options will be local bars/restaurants before games or a sponsored team tailgate zone. (Indy has a sponsored tailgate area where they have decent prices food and beer in an area outside the stadium). There too many issues/risk of liability for allowing the free for all tailgating in Buffalo, with people drinking and being thrown though tables.

- the Pegulas know, and have probably known from the start that if they wanted to be owners in the NFL, they needed to build a new stadium or a massive Reno of the existing. I think ideally they would like to have one downtown next to the arena and build off of what they have already started there. 

- if Bills fans can't afford higher ticket prices that come with a new stadium, then they can afford the NFL, having a team in your area is a luxury, not a right, and there are other areas the league could go to that may be able to afford the NFL

- it doesn't matter what they average fan wants, it a what the league and investors/sponsors want. The NFL isn't a charity, they are a billion dollar business that wants to keep expanding just like any other business. If they can make an extra buck by doing something, they will. If a team refuses to pull their weight and contribute their fair share, they will be forced out for someone/where who can.

- the stadium may be the centre piece of redevelopment, but that doesn't mean it's the only attraction. The stadium gets built and the area developed and built up not just for the 8 days a year it's used, those are just the bonus days for revenue for the business owners. The redeveloped area is done so it's an attraction to bring people there year round. It's made into the place where people go on weekends and after work, where people stay when they come to town to visit or on business and have other things to do then sit in their hotel rooms or drink in the hotel bar. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

...and if the new stadium is downtown and domed(which I believe it will be), a large chunk of fans will go right from their car to the stadium, and enjoy their pregame festivities inside the stadium.  The notion by some(not you) that there needs to be establishments to hold 70,000 fans is ridiculous, and using this as a reason to keep the stadium in OP is not well thought out. 

 

Which is part of the revenue formula. 

[Augie]

12 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

If they start winning playoff games, they won't need Canadians to fill the seats....

 

 What would happen the other 357 nights?

 

When we were there shopping a couple weekends ago I saw a new Italian place. I’m looking forward to going over there to walk around, do some people watching and try that place for lunch today.  Good options are nice to have! Before the Braves stadium it was just a 65 acre field surrounded mostly by crappy strip centers. They took nothing....and turned it into something. Something very nice. 

11 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Which is part of the revenue formula. 

 

EXACTLY! 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

You don't get it - its not SEATS - it's SUITES and marketing dollars that the Pegula's want from the huge corporate presence in Southern Ontario.

 

And the other 357 nights? Buffalo needs a new convention center AND a new stadium - the area will NEVER get funding for BOTH in our lifetime.  So make the stadium multi-use.

 

Keep up bro

 

Southern Ontario corporations refuse to buy the current suites because they aren't nice enough?

 

You clearly have not been keeping up:  I've already posted how little the biggest and most luxurious new stadiums are hardly "multi-use"--so can you be more specific as to what other uses the Buffalo stadium would be used for?  Do a bit of research, then come back with fresh ideas (i.e., no need to mention "NCAA Final 4s", etc.). 

[Mr. WEO]

21 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

When we were there shopping a couple weekends ago I saw a new Italian place. I’m looking forward to going over there to walk around, do some people watching and try that place for lunch today.  Good options are nice to have! Before the Braves stadium it was just a 65 acre field surrounded mostly by crappy strip centers. They took nothing....and turned it into something. Something very nice. 

 

EXACTLY! 

 

I'm sure the whole development was a boost to the county that the Braves moved to. 

[buffalobillsfootball]

43 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Southern Ontario corporations refuse to buy the current suites because they aren't nice enough?

 

You clearly have not been keeping up:  I've already posted how little the biggest and most luxurious new stadiums are hardly "multi-use"--so can you be more specific as to what other uses the Buffalo stadium would be used for?  Do a bit of research, then come back with fresh ideas (i.e., no need to mention "NCAA Final 4s", etc.). 

 

Buffalo will never have the biggest and most luxurious - those regions that can support that don't need to be multi-use. But a region like WNY has to make the most of their tax dollars for luxuries such as Stadiums... Convention Centers, etc.  WNY will not get tax dollars for BOTH in our lifetime.

 

And regarding other successful multi use stadium convention centers - look no further than Lucas Oil Stadium and Convention Center. Their combined stadium has a TON of events planned - check them out here: https://www.icclos.com/upcoming-events/ or here

 

It's ok Mr WEO - we get it - you're a tailgating fan - not a BILLS fan.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

It's ok Mr WEO - we get it - you're a tailgating fan - not a BILLS fan.

 

 

WEO isn't a fan, he's our resident troll.