Another Argument for Bills to Not Build a Billion $ Palace in B/Lo

[Augie]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yeah, you're right.  But what if Vegas gives me 40:1 odds?!  

 

I’m guessing STD’s get even money, but I’m not an expert on that front. 

[corta765]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

There is nothing that shows that a downtown stadium will bring an uptick in economy, nothing shows that

 

Also Buffalo IS already a beautiful city that's been being revitalized for years. It doesn't need a new stadium to do that

 

Buffalo has its own unique feel, from the Gothic revival architecture to the art nouveau and it's a historically beautiful city and the parks

 

Buffalo has had it's own identity and feel for a long long time, we don't need that change to our city by building a palace

 

Whatever they do they do but the city ABSOLUTELY doesn't need it. I live here and love it and wouldn't change anything

my point is politicians use this as something to boast about regardless of the statistics that show it has no positive impact economically.

 

you can guarantee someone would say they helped keep the bills here if a new stadium was made downtown 

[without a drought]

8 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

To sum up this thread

 

Stupid cloud.

[bbb]

I always hear this stuff about it having no economic impact. But I also listen to Tony Kornheiser and Adam Carolla and they’ve both talked about how development and growth happened around the MCI Center and Staples Center, respectively. 

[PromoTheRobot]

15 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

The Chargers have been playing in a 25,000 seat soccer stadium for a couple of years now. It’s not big of a deal. I’d imagine the Bills playing at UB for a single season.

 

With that said I don’t recall how Miami did it. They put that massive roof structure over their seats and I don’t think they missed a season. Anyone recall? 

 

Not a big deal to you because you're likely not one of the 55K+ season ticket holders. You want to be the guy to tell half of them they aren't going get their seats for a year? It would make more sense to play at Penn State's Stadium.

 

But this is a moot discussion because I'm convinced they will not go the renovation route. Why? Because half the stadium is buried in the ground and you can't expand the concourses there.

 

All signs point downtown.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[purple haze]

2 hours ago, bbb said:

I always hear this stuff about it having no economic impact. But I also listen to Tony Kornheiser and Adam Carolla and they’ve both talked about how development and growth happened around the MCI Center and Staples Center, respectively. 

It sure did.  Both areas are totally different from what they were.  Chinatown was ghost- like at night until Mr. Pollin built MCI Center (Now Capital One Arena).  

 

Staples Center begat L.A. Live.  That complex has given Downtown a different vibe.  It used to be desolate down there after 5pm.  Not anymore. 

 

Difference is those are hoops arena's which hosts so many games/events it leads to people being around the areas.

Edited February 11, 2020 by purple haze

[apuszczalowski]

8 hours ago, purple haze said:

It sure did.  Both areas are totally different from what they were.  Chinatown was ghost- like at night until Mr. Pollin built MCI Center (Now Capital One Arena).  

 

Staples Center begat L.A. Live.  That complex has given Downtown a different vibe.  It used to be desolate down there after 5pm.  Not anymore. 

 

Difference is those are hoops arena's which hosts so many games/events it leads to people being around the areas.

What about Vegas? They are building a football stadium in a desert, but I bet that will really give the City a huge boost, maybe bring in some tourists to the area?

12 hours ago, corta765 said:

my point is politicians use this as something to boast about regardless of the statistics that show it has no positive impact economically.

 

you can guarantee someone would say they helped keep the bills here if a new stadium was made downtown 

Politicians are usually the type that want to boast about things they do.......

I'm sure the ones that are against it will also be boasting about it when things work out and how they knew it would work, as long as their constituents are happy with it.

 

[PromoTheRobot]

31 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

What about Vegas? They are building a football stadium in a desert, but I bet that will really give the City a huge boost, maybe bring in some tourists to the area?

 

 

Vegas is a different animal. As popping a town as it is, it lacked a super-sized venue. That stadium will get used year round.

[BigBuff423]

18 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Vegas is a different animal. As popping a town as it is, it lacked a super-sized venue. That stadium will get used year round.

 

SHHHHHHH!!! Reasoned logic and deduction is not allowed on this board. You can yell at the sky! That's it!

[May Day 10]

It is definitely coming

 

Pegula himself said that a top of the line, state of the art $1-$2 Billion building does not fit the market here.

 

 

It seems like there are 3 choices of location currently everyone is talking about

 

Renovate in place

Build a new facility on-site in Orchard Park

Build Downtown, the most assumed spot is S and E of Cobblestone there.

* - I think over near the 'elbow' of 190 and 90 would be the best spot.  Lots of room and simple to set up the traffic pattern.

 

 

IMO, building a new facility in OP seems like the most cost-effective option for all parties.  Roughly, a major renovation of New Era Field will cost a similar amount as a new 'modest' build on-site, and a renovation is much more restricting than the clean-slate of a new build. There is also the question of where the Bills play during a renovation and the logistics of planning a major construction project in the snowbelt around a football season(s).

 

Downtown, from miles above seems like the obvious move.  However, land acquisition, demolition, updating infrastructure, updating the rail, Buffalo red-tape will add a great deal of cost, like maybe a 50% of the actual stadium price tag.  I think we could be looking at $500K+ of costs before the building itself is taken into account.  As it is now, I leave Sabres games early in the third period when there are only 14,000 people there because I dont want to get stuck in gridlock.     

Money is better spent, and the public ask would be a lot more reasonable in Orchard Park, where most things are in place and there are open lots to build in.  There is also the number of meaningful events that are realistically going to be held in the facility.  It is not enough to have a meaningful impact on businesses downtown.  If it were an MLB ballpark, put it there at all costs.  

 

 

I think an Orchard Park Lucas-Oil-type 'fieldhouse'-style build is the most likely scenario here.  If I could have my choice of a new facility, as much as I love New Era Field, I would love an outdoor, natural grass, semi enclosed/roofed stadium similar to Centurylink. 

 

 

It seems like some concrete details are going to come down this Spring or Summer.  Looking forward to it.  

[TheFunPolice]

all of the infrastructure is in OP

 

Just rebuild there and have everything on one campus. Open air, partially covered, with those cool red lights for night games. 

 

[Chicharito]

So if a complete overhaul of the Ralph is what the pegulas decide to do where would we play for a year while the renovations are being done? I don’t see UB being an option!

[PromoTheRobot]

39 minutes ago, Chicharito said:

So if a complete overhaul of the Ralph is what the pegulas decide to do where would we play for a year while the renovations are being done? I don’t see UB being an option!

 

Penn State?

[DrDawkinstein]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

all of the infrastructure is in OP

 

Just rebuild there and have everything on one campus. Open air, partially covered, with those cool red lights for night games. 

 

 

You want to talk about wasting money? Spend $500M-$1B building an open-air stadium in the suburbs.

 

New stadium will go downtown, and it will be enclosed so it can be used for more than 8-10 days a year. We already need a new convention center, boom there is your new convention center too.

 

And just like they built Lucas Oil Field in Indy to match the surrounding warehouses and industrial buildings, they can build the new stadium to match Buffalo's existing architecture.

[Saxum]

Sure more than 8-10 days a year. Bills draft, occasional home playoff game, etc. I hope no one is counting on revenue for these other events.

[buffalobillsfootball]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You want to talk about wasting money? Spend $500M-$1B building an open-air stadium in the suburbs.

 

New stadium will go downtown, and it will be enclosed so it can be used for more than 8-10 days a year. We already need a new convention center, boom there is your new convention center too.

 

And just like they built Lucas Oil Field in Indy to match the surrounding warehouses and industrial buildings, they can build the new stadium to match Buffalo's existing architecture.

 

You had me up until you suggested we mimic Lucas Oil Field. Buffalo already has WAY TOO MANY old, authentic warehouse and industrial buildings.

 

Why Micky Mouse it when we could design something that is bold and architecturally modern?

 

I cringe every time I see Lucas Oil and Ford Field.   

[DrDawkinstein]

11 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

You had me up until you suggested we mimic Lucas Oil Field. Buffalo already has WAY TOO MANY old, authentic warehouse and industrial buildings.

 

Why Micky Mouse it when we could design something that is bold and architecturally modern?

 

I cringe every time I see Lucas Oil and Ford Field.   

 

Differing opinions.

 

And I'm not saying it has to look like Lucas Oil, just that it doesnt HAVE to look like Minn's new US Bank Stadium or Atlanta's new MB Stadium which would be out of place and possibly tacky in Buffalo (although I personally do like both of those stadiums). Point is, there isn't a rule on how it has to be designed. Heck they could tie in some Frank Lloyd Wright aspects and have it look modern yet still very "Buffalo".

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Not a big deal to you because you're likely not one of the 55K+ season ticket holders. You want to be the guy to tell half of them they aren't going get their seats for a year? It would make more sense to play at Penn State's Stadium.

 

But this is a moot discussion because I'm convinced they will not go the renovation route. Why? Because half the stadium is buried in the ground and you can't expand the concourses there.

 

All signs point downtown.

 

 

 

Yep - Major infrastructure changes will need to take place... Lot of public money will have to be poured into this whether the pegulas are buying the stadium or not.  I do think since PSLs probably don't work here to the extent they need to, public money will get put into it.  

 

Conway park would be my pick?  Build some moveable bridges, and you have a ton of parking.  Rip down the projects and you have even more - plus what you have for sabres games etc.  I would assume a garage is on the table?  Maybe another hotel - near the casino?  There is a lot to think about there.

[buffalobillsfootball]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Differing opinions.

 

And I'm not saying it has to look like Lucas Oil, just that it doesnt HAVE to look like Minn's new US Bank Stadium or Atlanta's new MB Stadium which would be out of place and possibly tacky in Buffalo (although I personally do like both of those stadiums). Point is, there isn't a rule on how it has to be designed. Heck they could tie in some Frank Lloyd Wright aspects and have it look modern yet still very "Buffalo".

 

Yep - definitely different opinions and perspectives.  And I agree it doesn't have to imitate US Bank or Mercedes Benz stadiums - but I'm just not a fan of mimicking authentic architecture we already have here.  It's fake.

 

With that said - I always liked the look of this concept:

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Differing opinions.

 

And I'm not saying it has to look like Lucas Oil, just that it doesnt HAVE to look like Minn's new US Bank Stadium or Atlanta's new MB Stadium which would be out of place and possibly tacky in Buffalo (although I personally do like both of those stadiums). Point is, there isn't a rule on how it has to be designed. Heck they could tie in some Frank Lloyd Wright aspects and have it look modern yet still very "Buffalo".

 

I like the Frank Lloyd Wright idea - or maybe a modern take on art deco to sync up with city hall?  I dunno - something with some character i suppose.  I just dont like the idea of like - full on replicating it.  Like - modernize it.  Use it for inspiration.  

Edited February 11, 2020 by dneveu