Nihilarian Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 20 hours ago, QCity said: Look at each contract we gave all our FA's last year. We can walk away from every single one of them after 2 years with minimal damage if they don't work out. A far cry from the Whaley days. What gets me is that during the Buddy Nix, Doug Whaley years i kept reading about great the roster has become over past rosters. There have been major flaws all over the rosters every year for nearly two decades. The Buffalo Bills finally have a great GM again as its been a long, long time here.
Buddo Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 I think Beane and McDermott are still 'joined at the hip', but Beane's comments, are enlightening about how they go about things. I'd guess they both disagree to an extent, about different players, yet get to a decision between them, and then stick by it. Once the decision is made, it's done with. In those sorts of situations, I think sometimes Beane, and sometimes McDermott gets the decision, but it's done by both sides acknowledging the others arguments, for and against. I believe that it is something they encourage throughout the FA/Draft process, where scouts/personnel guys are allowed to make a case for someone, if they feel strongly about it. Beane has spoken about this sort of thing in the past, and if a guy feels strongly, then they will go back and review the tape. Might still decide against, but itwon't be for double checking their assessment.
NoSaint Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 21 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: I agree, one thing I can say about Beane is that he is very candid and as open as he possibly can be. Another comment I will make is that, while reviewing some past drafts over since 2010 - you can see how much more organized the FO is in targeted and identifying players and they types of players we are bringing in are significantly different than the previous few. I entirely agree with your last statement about him being the sheriff in town and that is another things that was missing terribly in the organization and the fact that the FO will challenge the coaching staff - they should! the only thing that I’d push back on slightly... if pegs fired McD and hired a guy like rex suddenly, it would be pretty much impossible for the GM to look consistent and purpose driven 14 hours ago, LSHMEAB said: The thing I noticed is the reference to the Houston game. I'm wondering who he could be referencing because it definitely seems like he's saying a FA played poorly in that game. Gotta be either Shaq or J Phillips I would think. Not like we have many free agents. could be anyone up for possible early extensions too 8 hours ago, Nihilarian said: What gets me is that during the Buddy Nix, Doug Whaley years i kept reading about great the roster has become over past rosters. There have been major flaws all over the rosters every year for nearly two decades. The Buffalo Bills finally have a great GM again as its been a long, long time here. there were definitely a few years with very good 52 man rosters 1
Reed83HOF Posted February 8, 2020 Author Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, NoSaint said: the only thing that I’d push back on slightly... if pegs fired McD and hired a guy like rex suddenly, it would be pretty much impossible for the GM to look consistent and purpose driven Very fair and true point, but Beane has done enough thus far to be able to lead his own search and compile the list, no way a Rexy appears on it. I'm not trying to ball wash Beane either, he has taken some shots that haven't worked and and some that have. The churning of the roster and the aggressiveness is getting his guys in the draft have been refreshing, because he is targeting the correct positions and high ceiling players. His key to success is actually what he just said, pushing on the coaching staff to improve the roster. It sounds at times like McD wants to keep everyone, we lost too many vets in car, need to resting all of our guys, etc. Where Beane is providing the "excuses" why the coaches don't want to move on. Not saying this is a huge issue or anything, just the natural friction of both parts of the team doing their job. It's what a GM needs to do and I am so happy we don't have a do it all HC, you have to be very bellicheckian to do that and have very little emotion towards your buddies who are players. If beane is right more than he is wrong and doesn't make a colossal mistake he will be here for a long time. The question will be, how good will he be once schoen and morgan get hired away and is the depth on his team enough to fill the void. Edited February 8, 2020 by Reed83HOF
Shaw66 Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 23 hours ago, Lurker said: Most of Beane's comments were things he's said before, but I found his remarks about McD's 'buddies' to be something new and kind of eye-opening. It's the first time I can recall him deviating from the "joined at the hip" partnership they've promoted when it comes to team building. I like that Beane's clearly the sheriff in town and sort of keeping McD from getting too comfortable or over-loaded with his 'type' of guys (i.e., humble, God-fearing over-achieving underdogs)... Actually, I think Beane has said things like this before, and McDermott has acknowledged it. What they describe is a healthy tug-of-war on issues, with an agreement that McDermott will work with the players Beane gives him and Beane will accept that McDermott will run the team, even to the extent of being able to release players that McD really doesn't want around. The joined-at-the-hip notion comes from their repeated statements that they work together, that they share the same fundamental objectives and understanding about what makes a team great. The working relationship they describe is one that requires honesty, mutual respect and a commitment to move forward together, always. (Like a successful marriage.) They're committed to that. Might it fail, come undone? Sure, it might. But McDermott for sure, and I think Beane too, is a guy who makes lifetime commitments. McD's commitments are to God, his family, personal honesty and excellence. I think in his head, and perhaps spoken, he has a career-long commitment to the Pegulas. The model that he and Beane are pursuing is a model for long-term excellence with honor. He won't sell out for money or for short-term success. He has almost a maniacal commitment to success the right way. As for Beane's comments generally, I think we can see again the emphasis on sustainability. He's not in a hurry to get to the top; his focus is building something that he can keep on the top. So he talks about managing the contracts in a way that he's always able to build, recognizing that as they get good they will begin to lose guys they would like to keep. He's not going to write big checks and make big splashes in free agency, because the guys he really wants are rookies who grow into keepers. Frankly, I think the most interesting thing he said is about franchise quarterbacks. I've always at least wondered if McBeane aren't actively trying to get in Allen's head about his next contract. Beane pretty clearly says here that he's going to pay a franchise quarterback (that's one message he's sending Allen - "you keep growing, we're keeping you at your price"), but he's also sending a subtle message to Allen ("if you're taking every last nickel, we won't be able to build the team around you as well as you and we would like. So think about whether the best price for you is really the highest price you can get."). It's almost as though he's explaining it to Allen. You can be sure that somehow the Bills' front office is saying to Allen "we're working on building a long-term winner like New England. One aspect of the Patriots' success was Brady's willingness to leave some money on the table because he knew he'd be plenty wealthy for life even at a reduced rate. That's what we're going to need from you. Keep it in mind over the next couple of years, as you see this team get better around you." We all know it intuitively, but think about QB compensation for a minute. Allen has a four-year guaranteed deal at $21 million. His option year is another $6 million or more. So that's $27 million in five years. If he gets good franchise QB money for the next ten years, that's $30 million a year, or $300 million. Plus his rookie contract, and even modest endorsements, he makes $350 over 15 years. Say he pays half of that in taxes, he has $175 million left. Say he spends $1 million a year living. He has $160 million left in the bank, or enough to have $5 million a year to live on for the rest of his life. If he takes, say, $20 milliion a year on his next contract, leaving $10 million for Beane to buy other players, he makes $250 million over 15 years, or $125 after tax. Spend a million a year and he has $110 million to live on for the rest of his life, or $3.5 million a year. And, of course, if McBeane are right in what they are doing, Allen will win multiple bowls, be on lots of Wheaties boxes and earn extra dough on the endorsement trail, but forget about that. And also, the numbers are better than that. Franchise QBs are going to do better than $30 million, and all the extra money, even from his rookie contract, is invested and growing at 5% or more. The point is that even if Allen gives the Bills a serious discount in order to build the team, Allen's going to be ridiculously wealthy. What Beane is saying to Allen is this: "How much is winning worth to you? What's important to you, winning or having a bigger bank account that you never, ever will spend?" Everything about what McBeane do is about team, and they're going to be telling Allen that his comp is about team, too. I think that's a message that will resonate with Allen. I think McD is building an emotional bond with Allen that will keep Allen in Buffalo for Allen's career, and that will cause Allen to take less than his market value. That will give the Bills an edge over teams with a great franchise QB who is getting paid as much as he can negotiate. 1
HomeTeam Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: Actually, I think Beane has said things like this before, and McDermott has acknowledged it. What they describe is a healthy tug-of-war on issues, with an agreement that McDermott will work with the players Beane gives him and Beane will accept that McDermott will run the team, even to the extent of being able to release players that McD really doesn't want around. The joined-at-the-hip notion comes from their repeated statements that they work together, that they share the same fundamental objectives and understanding about what makes a team great. The working relationship they describe is one that requires honesty, mutual respect and a commitment to move forward together, always. (Like a successful marriage.) They're committed to that. Might it fail, come undone? Sure, it might. But McDermott for sure, and I think Beane too, is a guy who makes lifetime commitments. McD's commitments are to God, his family, personal honesty and excellence. I think in his head, and perhaps spoken, he has a career-long commitment to the Pegulas. The model that he and Beane are pursuing is a model for long-term excellence with honor. He won't sell out for money or for short-term success. He has almost a maniacal commitment to success the right way. As for Beane's comments generally, I think we can see again the emphasis on sustainability. He's not in a hurry to get to the top; his focus is building something that he can keep on the top. So he talks about managing the contracts in a way that he's always able to build, recognizing that as they get good they will begin to lose guys they would like to keep. He's not going to write big checks and make big splashes in free agency, because the guys he really wants are rookies who grow into keepers. Frankly, I think the most interesting thing he said is about franchise quarterbacks. I've always at least wondered if McBeane aren't actively trying to get in Allen's head about his next contract. Beane pretty clearly says here that he's going to pay a franchise quarterback (that's one message he's sending Allen - "you keep growing, we're keeping you at your price"), but he's also sending a subtle message to Allen ("if you're taking every last nickel, we won't be able to build the team around you as well as you and we would like. So think about whether the best price for you is really the highest price you can get."). It's almost as though he's explaining it to Allen. You can be sure that somehow the Bills' front office is saying to Allen "we're working on building a long-term winner like New England. One aspect of the Patriots' success was Brady's willingness to leave some money on the table because he knew he'd be plenty wealthy for life even at a reduced rate. That's what we're going to need from you. Keep it in mind over the next couple of years, as you see this team get better around you." We all know it intuitively, but think about QB compensation for a minute. Allen has a four-year guaranteed deal at $21 million. His option year is another $6 million or more. So that's $27 million in five years. If he gets good franchise QB money for the next ten years, that's $30 million a year, or $300 million. Plus his rookie contract, and even modest endorsements, he makes $350 over 15 years. Say he pays half of that in taxes, he has $175 million left. Say he spends $1 million a year living. He has $160 million left in the bank, or enough to have $5 million a year to live on for the rest of his life. If he takes, say, $20 milliion a year on his next contract, leaving $10 million for Beane to buy other players, he makes $250 million over 15 years, or $125 after tax. Spend a million a year and he has $110 million to live on for the rest of his life, or $3.5 million a year. And, of course, if McBeane are right in what they are doing, Allen will win multiple bowls, be on lots of Wheaties boxes and earn extra dough on the endorsement trail, but forget about that. And also, the numbers are better than that. Franchise QBs are going to do better than $30 million, and all the extra money, even from his rookie contract, is invested and growing at 5% or more. The point is that even if Allen gives the Bills a serious discount in order to build the team, Allen's going to be ridiculously wealthy. What Beane is saying to Allen is this: "How much is winning worth to you? What's important to you, winning or having a bigger bank account that you never, ever will spend?" Everything about what McBeane do is about team, and they're going to be telling Allen that his comp is about team, too. I think that's a message that will resonate with Allen. I think McD is building an emotional bond with Allen that will keep Allen in Buffalo for Allen's career, and that will cause Allen to take less than his market value. That will give the Bills an edge over teams with a great franchise QB who is getting paid as much as he can negotiate. That's the dream Shaw. We desperately all want to believe that these are our guys for a very long time.
purple haze Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Shaw66 said: I think that's a message that will resonate with Allen. I think McD is building an emotional bond with Allen that will keep Allen in Buffalo for Allen's career, and that will cause Allen to take less than his market value. That will give the Bills an edge over teams with a great franchise QB who is getting paid as much as he can negotiate. Nice if that happens, but don't count on it. If he earns a big payday he deserves to get what the market dictates. Hopefully, the new CBA makes it a moot point. From what I understand the NFLPA are trying to get QB salaries counted less against the cap because of how out of whack those salaries are in comparison to the other players. Edited February 8, 2020 by purple haze 1
Shaw66 Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 3 hours ago, purple haze said: Nice if that happens, but don't count on it. If he earns a big payday he deserves to get what the market dictates. Hopefully, the new CBA makes it a moot point. From what I understand the NFLPA are trying to get QB salaries counted less against the cap because of how out of whack those salaries are in comparison to the other players. I think it will happen. I don't know what to expect as for actual numbers, and we will never know, but I expect Allen will stay with the Bills and will take less than the best contract that he could have gotten. I think Allen values team, values the environment Buffalo and the fans offer, values the kind of approach to the game and life that McD teaches and lives. I think he values the owners, too. I'm convinced he'll stay in Buffalo. As for adjustments to the CBA, that's very interesting. It makes some sense to separate QB contracts out of the general salary cap, since those salaries so far out of line with all the other positions. But I kind of like the way it is - if you want to blow your wad on the QB, that's your privilege - you just have to figure out how to put together the rest of the team with the money you have left. In fact, I think that QB salaries for many of the best guys will be controlled for just the reasons that I think Allen's will - QBs will recognize they're all becoming incredibly rich, and it just doesn't make that much difference to be the highest paid. Take Goff, for example. A guy who extends his rookie deal early probably is leaving money on the table. It's hard to know, because he never reached the free agent market, but I have to think he took less than his agent told him was his max value in exchange for the security of a longer term deal and for the opportunity to continue with a coach and in a system that he thinks is good for him. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 On 2/7/2020 at 7:42 AM, BuffaloRebound said: You gotta love his candidness. Basically telling Poyer that we want you back but that Houston tape don’t lie. ? why would you think directed at Poyer? There is no "we want you back" issue with Poyer. He is under contract through the end of this next season.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 On 2/7/2020 at 5:27 AM, Niagara Dude said: End of the day the need to cut guys Murphy/Smith/ Kroft and not overpay guys like Poyer who wants a raise. Poyer signed a contract and needs to honor it, good player but he is no pro bowler who cannot be replaced. Paying average/good players too much puts your team at a disadvantage getting elite talent that you need to win playoff games. Does anyone remember any game changing plays Poyer made this past season or in the playoff game? either do i. Not against adding a couple of years to his current deal with a small increase. The end of the day Love how players "need to honor their contract" but it's ok for Beane to cut any player he wants. Why shouldn't Beane honor the terrible contract he gave Murphy or Star? 2
Ya Digg? Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said: Love how players "need to honor their contract" but it's ok for Beane to cut any player he wants. Why shouldn't Beane honor the terrible contract he gave Murphy or Star? I always find that statement interesting as well. Why shouldn’t these guys want a raise? I honestly think that this is said a lot of times for one of 2 reasons: first, people are unreasonably jealous that these players make so much money playing a “kids” game and second because fans always back the team, not the players. Think about what happens as soon as a player leaves in Buffalo-there are million threads talking about how that player was garbage and we should all be glad they are gone. These guys should get paid as much as they can get. It’s the front office’s job to work these contracts to have all of the guys they want in the team. There are always ways to structure contracts so you stay under the cap now. But sure, the players should honor their contract but the team doesn’t need to
Rock'em Sock'em Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) On 2/6/2020 at 8:55 PM, Reed83HOF said: Comments from Ginaetti (the Spotrac guy:) "He could cut Tyler Kroft, Star Lotulelei and Trent Murphy, and it wouldn’t make a dent in his cap space or his future cap because of the way he has structured the contracts.” I'm not a fan of cutting these guys unless we have replacements that are better or cheaper. But cutting Kroft and Lotulelei would add $13M to 2021 cap space, it's worth considering. It would have a negligible impact on cap space this year, assuming players on small deals replace them (see Knox, Corey Liuget, 2019). Murphy's contract is effectively $8M in 2020 and he is a free agent in 2021. With all position groups, the Bills will try to balance having veteran leadership with having better?, cheaper, and younger players. They are in good cap space to be able to make the right decisions. Edited February 9, 2020 by Rock'em Sock'em
Reed83HOF Posted February 9, 2020 Author Posted February 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rock'em Sock'em said: I'm not a fan of cutting these guys unless we have replacements that are better or cheaper. But cutting Kroft and Lotulelei would add $13M to 2021 cap space, it's worth considering. It would have a negligible impact on cap space this year, assuming players on small deals replace them (see Knox, Corey Liuget, 2019). Murphy's contract is effectively $8M in 2020 and he is a free agent in 2021. With all position groups, the Bills will try to balance having veteran leadership with having better?, cheaper, and younger players. They are in good cap space to be able to make the right decisions. I'm pretty sure his point, is that even with the signings we made and the way the current slate of contracts on the books are set up, you wouldn't get in a cap crunch from doing cutting them. My feeling is that you can dump kroft and smith and sign a premium UFA TE for $10m a season and only decrease your available space by $3M, which is a no brainers if you can pull that off. Star I wouldn't create that hole unless you sign Chris Jones in and start him next to Oliver. Hmmmm. I kind of get from Beane's comments that he may not be as big on vet leadership (with the state of the team now) as McD, especially if the position can be upgraded. This is a production based business.
Niagara Dude Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: Love how players "need to honor their contract" but it's ok for Beane to cut any player he wants. Why shouldn't Beane honor the terrible contract he gave Murphy or Star? This business and they received signing bonuses, if they have some one better for the business to do better than you move one.
Ethan in Cleveland Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said: This business and they received signing bonuses, if they have some one better for the business to do better than you move one. Yes. But why do the players have to honor the contract? If the market says they are worth more, why shouldn't they try to get paid?
ColoradoBills Posted February 9, 2020 Posted February 9, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 9:26 AM, Shaw66 said: Actually, I think Beane has said things like this before, and McDermott has acknowledged it. What they describe is a healthy tug-of-war on issues, with an agreement that McDermott will work with the players Beane gives him and Beane will accept that McDermott will run the team, even to the extent of being able to release players that McD really doesn't want around. The joined-at-the-hip notion comes from their repeated statements that they work together, that they share the same fundamental objectives and understanding about what makes a team great. The working relationship they describe is one that requires honesty, mutual respect and a commitment to move forward together, always. (Like a successful marriage.) They're committed to that. Might it fail, come undone? Sure, it might. But McDermott for sure, and I think Beane too, is a guy who makes lifetime commitments. McD's commitments are to God, his family, personal honesty and excellence. I think in his head, and perhaps spoken, he has a career-long commitment to the Pegulas. The model that he and Beane are pursuing is a model for long-term excellence with honor. He won't sell out for money or for short-term success. He has almost a maniacal commitment to success the right way. As for Beane's comments generally, I think we can see again the emphasis on sustainability. He's not in a hurry to get to the top; his focus is building something that he can keep on the top. So he talks about managing the contracts in a way that he's always able to build, recognizing that as they get good they will begin to lose guys they would like to keep. He's not going to write big checks and make big splashes in free agency, because the guys he really wants are rookies who grow into keepers. Frankly, I think the most interesting thing he said is about franchise quarterbacks. I've always at least wondered if McBeane aren't actively trying to get in Allen's head about his next contract. Beane pretty clearly says here that he's going to pay a franchise quarterback (that's one message he's sending Allen - "you keep growing, we're keeping you at your price"), but he's also sending a subtle message to Allen ("if you're taking every last nickel, we won't be able to build the team around you as well as you and we would like. So think about whether the best price for you is really the highest price you can get."). It's almost as though he's explaining it to Allen. You can be sure that somehow the Bills' front office is saying to Allen "we're working on building a long-term winner like New England. One aspect of the Patriots' success was Brady's willingness to leave some money on the table because he knew he'd be plenty wealthy for life even at a reduced rate. That's what we're going to need from you. Keep it in mind over the next couple of years, as you see this team get better around you." We all know it intuitively, but think about QB compensation for a minute. Allen has a four-year guaranteed deal at $21 million. His option year is another $6 million or more. So that's $27 million in five years. If he gets good franchise QB money for the next ten years, that's $30 million a year, or $300 million. Plus his rookie contract, and even modest endorsements, he makes $350 over 15 years. Say he pays half of that in taxes, he has $175 million left. Say he spends $1 million a year living. He has $160 million left in the bank, or enough to have $5 million a year to live on for the rest of his life. If he takes, say, $20 milliion a year on his next contract, leaving $10 million for Beane to buy other players, he makes $250 million over 15 years, or $125 after tax. Spend a million a year and he has $110 million to live on for the rest of his life, or $3.5 million a year. And, of course, if McBeane are right in what they are doing, Allen will win multiple bowls, be on lots of Wheaties boxes and earn extra dough on the endorsement trail, but forget about that. And also, the numbers are better than that. Franchise QBs are going to do better than $30 million, and all the extra money, even from his rookie contract, is invested and growing at 5% or more. The point is that even if Allen gives the Bills a serious discount in order to build the team, Allen's going to be ridiculously wealthy. What Beane is saying to Allen is this: "How much is winning worth to you? What's important to you, winning or having a bigger bank account that you never, ever will spend?" Everything about what McBeane do is about team, and they're going to be telling Allen that his comp is about team, too. I think that's a message that will resonate with Allen. I think McD is building an emotional bond with Allen that will keep Allen in Buffalo for Allen's career, and that will cause Allen to take less than his market value. That will give the Bills an edge over teams with a great franchise QB who is getting paid as much as he can negotiate. Shaw, the 5th year option for JA is going to be about 25 million for the year. Here are this years numbers. https://www.profootballrumors.com/2019/04/2020-fifth-year-option-decision-tracker
John from Riverside Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 Cannot let poyer go.....gotta factor in the wife hotness 1 1
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 10, 2020 Posted February 10, 2020 Does the Ravens giving Chuck Clark a 3 year $15.3 mil impact the Poyer negotiations?
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