Dopey Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 Ralph(Bills): Back to back AFL Championships 4 Straight Superbowl appearances Playoff appearances in every decade except 2000's and 2010's. I feel he should have given control to someone else by the year 2000(he was 80). Terry(Sabres): Really?!? I don't even want to go there! I didn't vote for 2 reasons: 1) Ralph owned the Bills for over 1/2 a century. Wondering how many that voted aren't even 25 yrs old yet. Pegula's time with the Sabres doesn't have a big enough sample size to compare to Ralph with the Bills. If the goal is winning, Ralph wins in a landslide. He lost a ton, but because of how long he owned the Bills compared to Pegula owning the Sabres, this isn't a fair question. To either owner. Pegula might get the Sabres on track to being a playoff team, but it shouldn't have taken this long. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the Sabres have to show for Pegula's tenure is Jack Eichel and we really wanted Connor. 2) Comparing Hockey to Football isn't fair either. In hockey 1 or 2 moves and you're a playoff team. Not the same in Football, save for maybe QB. To me, the only comparison would be how each went about hiring management/coaching staffs. Ralph was for the most part cheap in this regard, but he did bring in Butler and Polian. Pegula has yet to find the right GM and/or coach for the Sabres, again the sample size is too small.
Phil The Thrill Posted February 7, 2020 Author Posted February 7, 2020 43 minutes ago, Dopey said: Ralph(Bills): Back to back AFL Championships 4 Straight Superbowl appearances Playoff appearances in every decade except 2000's and 2010's. I feel he should have given control to someone else by the year 2000(he was 80). Terry(Sabres): Really?!? I don't even want to go there! I didn't vote for 2 reasons: 1) Ralph owned the Bills for over 1/2 a century. Wondering how many that voted aren't even 25 yrs old yet. Pegula's time with the Sabres doesn't have a big enough sample size to compare to Ralph with the Bills. If the goal is winning, Ralph wins in a landslide. He lost a ton, but because of how long he owned the Bills compared to Pegula owning the Sabres, this isn't a fair question. To either owner. Pegula might get the Sabres on track to being a playoff team, but it shouldn't have taken this long. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all the Sabres have to show for Pegula's tenure is Jack Eichel and we really wanted Connor. 2) Comparing Hockey to Football isn't fair either. In hockey 1 or 2 moves and you're a playoff team. Not the same in Football, save for maybe QB. To me, the only comparison would be how each went about hiring management/coaching staffs. Ralph was for the most part cheap in this regard, but he did bring in Butler and Polian. Pegula has yet to find the right GM and/or coach for the Sabres, again the sample size is too small. I can agree that the sample size is small with Pegula, but there are some definite similarities between the ways that Ralph ran the Bills in the mid 2000’s and how Terry is running the Sabres now. Also, Ralph has a long tenure and did very well with his hires of Levy and Polian, but the Ralph that I remember was a terrible owner. He stuck his nose in coaching decisions, empowered the wrong people and then was too afraid to give money or power to any viable candidate to lead the franchise. He also held the threat of relocation over the fans head and seemed like he didn’t give a sh*t about the team, as long as that shared revenue was roll in’ in. Again, this is Ralph the football owner and not the philanthropist. He did some good things for the WNY area, but as a foot a owner....he wasn’t good
nucci Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) Neither....Wilson would get something good and then screw it up after a few years....Saban, Knox, Polian...Pegula just has money and no clue what to do Edited February 7, 2020 by nucci
Dopey Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 Just now, Phil The Thrill said: I can agree that the sample size is small with Pegula, but there are some definite similarities between the ways that Ralph ran the Bills in the mid 2000’s and how Terry is running the Sabres now. Also, Ralph has a long tenure and did very well with his hires of Levy and Polian, but the Ralph that I remember was a terrible owner. He stuck his nose in coaching decisions, empowered the wrong people and then was too afraid to give money or power to any viable candidate to lead the franchise. He also held the threat of relocation over the fans head and seemed like he didn’t give a sh*t about the team, as long as that shared revenue was roll in’ in. Again, this is Ralph the football owner and not the philanthropist. He did some good things for the WNY area, but as a foot a owner....he wasn’t good I mentioned Ralph should have given up control by then. He was 80 yrs old by then. Not saying I know for sure, but he was probably thinking more about philanthropy/legacy than the actual nuts and bolts of running a winning franchise. But if the question is who is/was a better owner, so far Ralph was a better owner of the Bills than Pegula of the Sabres. Ralph at least had some winning moments. Pegs hasn't won jack as a Sabres owner. Well, Jack is all he's won.
Trogdor Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 57 minutes ago, Phil The Thrill said: Wrong.... you have to spend 89% of your salary cap. It’s required. So I guess that spending slightly over the salary cap floor is proof that Ralph wasn’t cheap, eh? Solid logic. I don't understand your logic because the Pegula run team isn't exactly maxed out and yet you don't fault him. Now I'm not saying Ralph was out there making it rain, but to use that logic and somehow make Pegula seem like he isn't cheap doesn't make sense.
May Day 10 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) The Pegulas have been absolutely devastating for the Sabres franchise. They do a lot of decent peripheral things: Harborcenter, Combine, lockerroom renovation, etc. They desire to win, and will spend money we believe. I like the family as people. But man oh man, they have run the team into the ground. I have never felt lower about a Buffalo sports team, and that includes Wilson-owned Bills throughout the 00s. They are actually very similar to Ralph Wilson in ownership style. They like to be involved, and like to surround themselves with managers they are comfortable with and who will allow them to provide input. The organization is strife with nepotism (business-wise too) and nice people who get to keep their jobs 'just because', which results in a lot of poor and neglected aspects of the organization. This also keeps away experienced management with credibility like Lombardi, Quenneville, (Babcock), Burke, Lamoriello, etc. People like that demand autonomy. Instead, we get first-timers or people just happy to get a job. Like Botterill, Housley, and Kruger. Players cant wait to get out of here. Watch another NHL game in comparison, and the Sabres have been absolutely listless for like 9 years. Its boring. The arena is dull. They had a great team president who engaged the fans, but instead they sent him packing for Russ Brandon in yet another 'great' decision. Since then, the fans have been forgotten. Cap that with the 'jerseygate' with missing deadlines to wear/change uniforms and also giving alumni chinese knockoff jerseys.... complete with mis-spelling a HHOF player and one of the most prominent players in franchise history on his jersey.... Just What is going on there? This is not a professional outfit. The answer is they need help. Help in every aspect of running the organization. They seem to reject help and chase it away. Its bad, and fans are starting to disengage. This is my last year of season tickets of 20 years. I wouldn't miss a game for nearly 30 years and I have watched maybe a dozen games on TV total in the last 3 years, and haven't watched in months. Edited February 7, 2020 by May Day 10 1 1
Buffalo03 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 18 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: Ralph was so cheap he made OJ Simpson the highest paid player in the 70s Jimbo the highest paid in the 80s. The early 90s Bills were called the million dollar bills because how much money Ralph threw around In the 2000s he made Derrick Dockery the 3rd highest paid guard OF ALL TIME He gave Mario 100 million He have Dareus 100 million You have no clue about cheap and you should feel bad for bashing the SINGLE PERSON who kept us here for 50+ years Bill Polian is why he spent the money he did back in the late 80's and early 90's. I saw something somewhere where Polian said he basically told Ralph to let him spend the money he needed or he was gonna walk. The Mario Williams thing was just to sell tickets. I wouldn't call spending on a few players outside of the 90's years as him not being cheap. He definitely was
4_kidd_4 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/28643117/why-buffalo-sabres-nhl-biggest-disaster?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true Good piece, sums up the Sabres under Terry. It’s been a total joke show.
TheFunPolice Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 I think Terry was always and now is much more interested in being an NFL owner than NHL. I know I would be much more into the Bills than the Sabres, even if both teams were good. Who can blame him? Football is much more relevant, much more fun regardless of record, makes more money, and provides much greater chances for glory. A 4-12 Bills season is still more fun than watching these recent Sabres teams. There are still some ups and downs. Still some drama. The country cares on some level. It feels like it matters. The NFL product is 100X better than most NHL games, which feel like a scrimmage in a half empty arena where you could hear a pin drop. Part of it is that there are only 16 NFL games vs 82 in hockey. These Sabres seasons feel 250 games long, though. It feels like they play (and lose) every single day. They were talking about the Sabres on WGR and asked a good question recently: "What ARE they good at?" Awful at PR and fan experience (see the article above for numerous examples) which is something that should be easy to nail.
May Day 10 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 25 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Awful at PR and fan experience (see the article above for numerous examples) which is something that should be easy to nail. A lot of the business and PR stuff drive me more crazy than the state of the team. They are 100% in control of all business aspects. Its like they fly from the seat of their pants. They miss jersey deadlines (were supposed to be royal blue this season and were supposed to wear black&reds on 90s night). Their promotions are disorganized (like how they gave away 5-cent sunglasses to 9,000 fans on fan 'appreciation' night one season.... and now do a bobblehead that night, but there are never any details until the last minute. They dont do anything by the way of team hall of fame honors or theme nights (other than the 50th anny ones this season). The Hasek jersey retirement ceremony was fit for a high school presentation.... and that is an event that is supposed to be as rare as a championship (although the Sabres retire jerseys like they are giving away candy... 11 and 39 should be it). Business wise, they need someone with the attitude of Sam Rothstein from Casino who thinks of everything including the ratio of blueberries from one muffin to another. The sports field is oversaturated with professionals, its easy to find good ones. As I said, they are in FULL control of this. Dont need to worry about drafting, development, luck, salary cap, etc.
Do The Reich Thing Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 Here's a wild conspiracy theory for you: What if they're running the Sabres into the ground so they can sell them and have them move, because they want the land their arena is on to build the Bills new stadium?
Phil The Thrill Posted February 7, 2020 Author Posted February 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Trogdor said: I don't understand your logic because the Pegula run team isn't exactly maxed out and yet you don't fault him. Now I'm not saying Ralph was out there making it rain, but to use that logic and somehow make Pegula seem like he isn't cheap doesn't make sense. I’m not taking about the salary when I say Ralph is cheap. I’m talking more about his decisions not to make the big hire at coach and GM when it was clear he needed a strong leader. He did that once with Tom Donahoe...never again. And it was the primary reason why the Bills stunk for 2 decades. Look at Ralph’s hires at GM and Coach since Donahoe. Cheap as F
T master Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 I think they are both good owners of their franchise of which you mentioned & i think both had or have the best intentions for each team but being in their positions making the kinds of money they have made they being the boss (and most with money that i have met) have a very hands on /i want it done this way mentality which in some respects was Ralph's biggest flaw ! Only when he let Marv run the team the way he saw fit or Marv being smarter & making Ralph think things Marv was going to do was Ralph's idea did the team do what they did, Terry i think being more of a fan at first with the Sabres had a learning curve which i'm sure Ralph did too . I believe through what Terry experienced with the Sabres has paid off to the point where he has learned to see ineptness in leaders such as Russ Brandon, Rex Ryan, & quite possibly former GM which didn't get much time on the job after McD was hired . But i believe both owners have their pro's & cons hopefully Terry has learned enough given his time as a franchise owner to learn from his mistakes which can make now both the Sabres & Bills winning teams in their respective sports ...
Buffalo716 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Buffalo03 said: Bill Polian is why he spent the money he did back in the late 80's and early 90's. I saw something somewhere where Polian said he basically told Ralph to let him spend the money he needed or he was gonna walk. The Mario Williams thing was just to sell tickets. I wouldn't call spending on a few players outside of the 90's years as him not being cheap. He definitely was He spent money in the 70s and 80s built a world champ in the 60s You don't know what your talking about cheap owners DON'T go to the HoF
billsfan89 Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 Ralph was a great owner in the early days of the AFL and into the merger, but he was built from the older cut of owners (the ones who treated their teams like a business that need to make money as opposed to a vanity project for billionaires from other businesses) and as the league began to become more overrun with owners who treated their teams like vanity projects Ralph didn't adapt his mentality. Many owners treated their teams as loss leaders, who cares if you lose 10 million operating a team when the team's value is going up and you have 5 billion in the bank. Ralph stopped spending to the cap after 2004 (the Bills were always well under the cap from 2006 to 2014, never were they ever a team that spent close to the cap) and the Bills never had great infrastructure within the organization (things like practice facilities and the like.) Ralph also was rumored to take cuts on the team in the 70's too so it wasn't just a recent development. There is no Buffalo Bills and there is no NFL the way it is presently constructed without the investment he made to keep the AFL in general healthy. But that doesn't mean that he wasn't a general liability to the team as the game's ownership ranks changed. These liabilities particularly manifested themselves in the drought years.
Formerly Allan in MD Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 18 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said: Without Pete Rozelle, Ralph wouldn’t own the Bills. Who cares!? That’s not what I’m asking Your narrow perspective on things is not very thrilling. 2
Niagara Bill Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 I loved Ralph. His biggest flaw was loyalty to some of the wrong people. His biggest credit was his generosity and love of family. Terry so far seems like a good man and Kim is his equal. NICE!
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted February 8, 2020 Posted February 8, 2020 Going to go Ralph. Just not enough visible appearances from Terry. And frankly his public speaking abilities give Doug Whaley a run for their money. Sorry...but that’s my tie breaker.
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