BADOLBILZ Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Cap space as of now and the next 3 years is not an issue, granted you have a lot less players under contract (obviously) $90M this year, $186M next and then like 13 players signed in 2022 and we have $355M in space. It comes down to how do you want to construct your roster and what positions are you willing to pay a premium on (I think we agree on those BTW)? For arguments sake OBJ cost CLE RD1, RD3 and Peppers and the cost of $90M for OBJ - would you do RD1, RD3 and Poyer and $90 for OBJ or do you do RD1 & RD2 and RD4 with a 5th yr option on CeeDee Lamb where you can spread out the cap hits over the next few years as you resign your players. We aren't paying 2 safeties $11M each or a 3rd LB more than $2M a year... I almost think in any scenario I chose option 2. I would even ride with Shaq at DE if we struck out on every other Edge in UFA and try to line up for one in the 2021 draft Oh I wouldn't trade multiple high picks for OBJ but I think he's definitely depreciated down to a single #1 pick. They might even take an early #2. You know how those culture cleansing fire-sale's go. In that case you get immediate elite WR play for 4 years and then you get a nice salary slot back at the end.......when those first 4 McBeane #1 draft picks could be eating up 1/3 of your cap......as opposed to using that #22 pick on an unknown commodity and maybe waiting a couple years for the player to mature or worse. 2
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 27 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I had no idea that people had this many strong opinions on this laviska dude. I mean I had heard of him, but personally watched zero Colorado football (ever) Apparently this board has a college football gambling problem ? I liked Tyler Johnson from like - the non-big programs i watched. Guy was a beast in the outback bowl against auburn too - had that 1 handed catch.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Reed83HOF said: It's not that I don't like the guy. What I am looking at is our immediate deficiency of scoring points, how a WR functions & basic skills needed in our offense and I can't see him contributing right away. The route running is an issue and most likely why Foster doesn't get on the field. Bandit has said it in other posts here, but in Daboll's system WRs have to make reads at the LOS and adjust their routes base don the read. I don't see him contributing much this year in that regard, as a jet sweep guy sure, WR screen guy sure; at this point and through his rookie year I am not sure he is much better than McKenzie impact wise. As I understand it from a piece that came out after the Dallas game, it's not even just reads at the LOS. After the snap, the WR are expected to read the defenders and run route options or secondary routes while providing clear body language cues to Allen about what they're going to do. Off the top of my head, I can think of a handful of "Allen is so inaccurate" misses that I'm pretty sure were mismatches between what route the WR ran, and the route Allen expected him to run. Quite possibly are more where Allen felt there was a mismatch between the defense and the WR's route, or wasn't sure what the WR was going to do, and simply didn't pull the trigger. Conclusion is I see your point that for a real and immediate upgrade at WR, we need a smart guy who already runs crisp routes. 1
OldTimer1960 Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Well, that's a fair enough opinion, but it's certainly not the only one. Polished isn't necessarily the most important thing. Eric Moulds wasn't polished. Great pick, though. Drafttek has him at #27. If that's his actual value, #22 is a reasonable spot to take him. I like him, myself. Tough as nails. And there's no especial reason to think he may never develop. Agree that there is no particular reason that he won’t develop, but he isn’t near a finished product. That alone doesn’t mean he isn’t wort pick 22 - all picks are an attempt to optimize unproven upside with proven skills. Some teams value what a player has already proven (floor) more than upside (ceiling), while other teams invert that. There have certainly been hits and misses with both approaches. From my vantage point, in Allen’s 3rd year I would like to give him a weapon that is polished enough to contribute significantly this year - mainly so that a fair and realistic assessment of whether Allen can be a long term answer can be made.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 Just now, BADOLBILZ said: Oh I wouldn't trade multiple high picks for OBJ but I think he's definitely depreciated down to a single #1 pick. They might even take an early #2. You know how those culture cleansing fire-sale's go. In that case you get immediate elite WR play for 4 years and then you get a nice salary slot back at the end.......when those first 4 McBeane #1 draft picks could be eating up 1/3 of your cap......as opposed to using that #22 pick on an unknown commodity and maybe waiting a couple years for the player to mature or worse. If i was just getting the player (and he is vastly overrated), I'd be fine with it. You unfortunately also get the person, and the person is very egotistical and self-absorbed.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Beane straight-up said in one of his post-season pressers, that they were going to have to get to know these guys and assess their intelligence (in a football, not a Wonderlic sense) because "Brian's offense is very complex". If the Bills pass up a player the outside observer thinks would be better, that may be the reason why. I don't think it's coincidence that we have 2 former QB playing receiver on the Bills right now. FWIW Patterson did score very low on his wonderlic.......an 11. But I think there were other circumstances around him because he was a JUCO guy who transferred to Tennessee........might have been awful grades or something else off the field. No idea how Shenault measures up there. Finding smart, dedicated WR's who can grasp that system might not be as easy as we'd hope..........the Pats sure haven't had many boundary receivers of note during the Brady era. The only great one they had was Randy Moss and he ran 3 routes and hoped Brady wouldn't throw him the ball on 2 of them. That's part of the thing with the system though..........they take on specialists at the right price and just use them for things they are good at. They traded for Cordarrelle Patterson even. 1
Augie Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 23 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said: I like the clips of him playing in the snow! Amari Cooper would’t even watch those clips! His highlight clips are exactly what I got the impression he was weak at. So, what do I know? (I clearly admit next to nothing, but that’s why I come HERE!) I guess that’s the purpose, but that extension and the hand catches away from the body could come in handy, if you know what I mean? . Edited February 6, 2020 by Augie
YoloinOhio Posted February 6, 2020 Author Posted February 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, dneveu said: If i was just getting the player (and he is vastly overrated), I'd be fine with it. You unfortunately also get the person, and the person is very egotistical and self-absorbed. Cleveland media doesn’t think they would get more than a 3rd right now. He’s always hurt plus everything else. Even when he’s playing he is hurt and it’s limiting his effectiveness. He’s still really talented, but he’s not the obj of the early years and the speculation is he won’t be again.
Reed83HOF Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: As I understand it from a piece that came out after the Dallas game, it's not even just reads at the LOS. After the snap, the WR are expected to read the defenders and run route options or secondary routes while providing clear body language cues to Allen about what they're going to do. Off the top of my head, I can think of a handful of "Allen is so inaccurate" misses that I'm pretty sure were mismatches between what route the WR ran, and the route Allen expected him to run. Quite possibly are more where Allen felt there was a mismatch between the defense and the WR's route, or wasn't sure what the WR was going to do, and simply didn't pull the trigger. Conclusion is I see your point that for a real and immediate upgrade at WR, we need a smart guy who already runs crisp routes. Where was Daboll and oc in college again? Any WRs coming from that school? Edit: also see Brady, Thomas this oastbyear and the frustrations with his WRs this year. I do believe the chargers run the EP system as well Edited February 6, 2020 by Reed83HOF
jdonley1180 Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 42 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Finding smart, dedicated WR's who can grasp that system might not be as easy as we'd hope.......... Bryan Edwards
purple haze Posted February 6, 2020 Posted February 6, 2020 22 hours ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said: I find it amusing that people think they can differentiate 0.05-0.10 second differences in 40 yard dash speed by watching a clip of a guy playing football. You can't. You'd be surprised how well trained the eye of a scout is. Many can get damn close to telling slight differences. When one is around players all the time and watching film you can discern a lot. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Sounds like a terrible offense.... Do you think it would surprise anyone here to learn that 3 of your most recent 4 posts contain the word "terrible"? 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: FWIW Patterson did score very low on his wonderlic.......an 11. But I think there were other circumstances around him because he was a JUCO guy who transferred to Tennessee........might have been awful grades or something else off the field. No idea how Shenault measures up there. I think Wonderlic, grades, and Juco aren't necessarily representative of the necessary football smarts. Quote Finding smart, dedicated WR's who can grasp that system might not be as easy as we'd hope..........the Pats sure haven't had many boundary receivers of note during the Brady era. I agree One line of thought around the limited production the Pats got from N'Keal Harry was trouble adjusting to their system. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 23 hours ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said: I find it amusing that people think they can differentiate 0.05-0.10 second differences in 40 yard dash speed by watching a clip of a guy playing football. You can't. Not "people" here, it's scouts. I can't. You can't. Not putting money down they can't.
Putin Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 On 2/5/2020 at 5:15 PM, YoloinOhio said: (IYO ) Will he still be on the board when we pick at 22 ? And do you think he’s worth trading up in this deep WR class ?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 1 minute ago, ScottLaw said: My point was any system that is "too complex" to sign a really talented/good NFL player or draft a potentially good NFL player because he wouldn't be able to handle it is a problem with the system. Can't disagree there. One of the themes one hears repeatedly when a new OC or DC comes in with essentially the same cast and the team takes a big jump is "Coach xxx simplified the system so we could play faster" 1
YoloinOhio Posted February 7, 2020 Author Posted February 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Putin said: (IYO ) Will he still be on the board when we pick at 22 ? And do you think he’s worth trading up in this deep WR class ? Yes. No.
Lurker Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Not "people" here, it's scouts. I can't. You can't. Not putting money down they can't. I don't know if there are any drag racing fans here, but I've been one for a long , long time. It's amazing, but if you watch enough of it, you can get a sense of the minute time differences involved--measured in the tenths and even hundredths of a second--with the naked eye. I suspect that scouts and other NFL personnel types can also do the same with players....
Buffalo Junction Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Beane straight-up said in one of his post-season pressers, that they were going to have to get to know these guys and assess their intelligence (in a football, not a Wonderlic sense) because "Brian's offense is very complex". If the Bills pass up a player the outside observer thinks would be better, that may be the reason why. I don't think it's coincidence that we have 2 former QB playing receiver on the Bills right now. That’s why digging up more information on these guys personal lives is insightful. I’ve been starting to look up backgrounds and academics. Just a few so far, but some nice finds.... Jalen Reagor https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/tcu-horned-frogs/2019/08/05/made-for-greatness-how-jalen-reagor-s-upbringing-propelled-him-to-stardom-at-tcu/ Laviska Shenault https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si.com/.amp/college/2018/10/11/laviska-shenault-family-colorado-buffaloes Denzel Mims https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/2019/08/04/10-things-to-know-about-denzel-mims-from-dual-sport-success-in-high-school-to-his-big-time-catches-at-baylor/
BADOLBILZ Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think Wonderlic, grades, and Juco aren't necessarily representative of the necessary football smarts. I do remember a lot of "mentally it's going to be a challenge for him" from "unidentified sources" regarding Patterson..........which reminded me of CJ Spiller........who there were the same whispers about and who never appeared to understand where a play was designed to go pre-snap. Which on one hand was sad and very unfortunate for the Bills..........but on the other made hearing Sean Peyton talk about what a weapon he was going to be(in his complex offense) all the more hilarious. There are processing power minimums. 1 1
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 7, 2020 Posted February 7, 2020 3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Cleveland media doesn’t think they would get more than a 3rd right now. He’s always hurt plus everything else. Even when he’s playing he is hurt and it’s limiting his effectiveness. He’s still really talented, but he’s not the obj of the early years and the speculation is he won’t be again. Yeah - guys always got a sore groin, or back, or foot or something.
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