Cover 1 evaluation of Laviska Shenault and in-depth overview of injury history

[atlbillsfan1975]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Does this report change anyone's WR draft evaluations?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28686020/colorado-wr-laviska-shenault-need-surgery-nagging-injury

It's saying he doesn't need core muscle surgery, which Beasley had last spring and which kept him out of OTAs into training camp. 

 

But from what I read, the condition he's diagnosed with instead, Osteitis pubis, can be even more nagging and debilitating:

" Until recently, there was no specific treatment for osteitis pubis. To treat the pain and inflammation caused by osteitis pubis, antiinflammatory medication, stretching, and strengthening of the stabilizing muscles are often prescribed. ....."

" X-rays taken during the early stages of osteitis pubis can be misleading - pain may be felt, but the damage doesn't appear on the films unless stork views (i.e. standing on one leg) are obtained. As the process continues and progresses, later pictures will show evidence of bony erosion in the p ubic bones."

"Osteitis pubis, if not treated early and correctly, can more often than not end a sporting individual's career, or give them an uncertain playing future. "

 

Former Bills draft pick WR Kolton Listenbee was said to have been diagnosed with osteitis pubis (described as a "groin injury") but to have played through it to the detriment of his ability to recover.  He ended up requiring a metal plate to be inserted in an attempt to rejoin his pelvic bones.

 

Anyone have some expertise here?  This does NOT sound good.

Jeesh, that doesn’t sound great. I would like to hear what one of doctors says about that. I’m sure each case is different and must be looked at individually. 
While reading that I asked myself ‘who thought to have someone stand on one leg and then get an image?’. Smart stuff. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Does this report change anyone's WR draft evaluations?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28686020/colorado-wr-laviska-shenault-need-surgery-nagging-injury

It's saying he doesn't need core muscle surgery, which Beasley had last spring and which kept him out of OTAs into training camp. 

 

But from what I read, the condition he's diagnosed with instead, Osteitis pubis, can be even more nagging and debilitating:

" Until recently, there was no specific treatment for osteitis pubis. To treat the pain and inflammation caused by osteitis pubis, antiinflammatory medication, stretching, and strengthening of the stabilizing muscles are often prescribed. ....."

" X-rays taken during the early stages of osteitis pubis can be misleading - pain may be felt, but the damage doesn't appear on the films unless stork views (i.e. standing on one leg) are obtained. As the process continues and progresses, later pictures will show evidence of bony erosion in the p ubic bones."

"Osteitis pubis, if not treated early and correctly, can more often than not end a sporting individual's career, or give them an uncertain playing future. "

 

Former Bills draft pick WR Kolton Listenbee was said to have been diagnosed with osteitis pubis (described as a "groin injury") but to have played through it to the detriment of his ability to recover.  He ended up requiring a metal plate to be inserted in an attempt to rejoin his pelvic bones.

 

Anyone have some expertise here?  This does NOT sound good.

If he has what listenbee did, and played through it like he did, well just read this 
 

 

 

https://www.si.com/college/2018/02/02/kolby-listenbee-lawsuit-tcu-gary-patterson-legal-analysis

 

[Thurman#1]

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2020/02/13/matt-waldmans-rsp-film-room-wr-laviska-shenault-jr-colorado-dont-call-him-gadget/

 

Waldman does consistently excellent breakdowns on a ton of players every year. He argues that comparing Shenault with Cordarelle Patterson isn't fair to Shenault.

 

 

"When I made my first pass through the 2020 NFL Draft class of wide receivers this summer, I wondered if Laviska Shenault might have more in common with Cordarrelle Patterson than desired. Patterson was one of the best open-field runners I’ve ever seen and when you restrict your viewing of his receiving skills to the catch-point, there appeared to be a lot of promise for Patterson to become a primary NFL receiver. Unfortunately, Patterson hasn’t demonstrated the skill to learn the intricacies of an offense required of an every-down receiver. As was shared with me before and after his rookie year, Patterson needs a lot more practice repetitions to execute assignments than the average NFL starter.

 

"Remember when Bill Belichick told the media that he promised Patterson in the spring of 2018 that he’d make Patterson as productive as his talent suggests? Although Belichick got production from Patterson, it wasn’t to expectation and Patterson was a Chicago Bear by 2019.

 

"Patterson is a gadget player with elite physical traits. On the surface, Shenault’s film looks dangerously like Patterson’s—his targets consist of a high volume of short passes, running plays from the wing and the backfield, and the occasional vertical routes when the offense can match Shenault one-on-one.

 

"A deeper look into Shenault’s game reveals a promising intermediate and vertical route runner with an above-average arsenal of footwork and hand usage against press coverage. While Shenault’s route tree is limited in Colorado’s system, his ability to sell cornerbacks with his stem work and finish off patterns with sharp breaks indicates that Shenault will become a primary option in an NFL offense within 2-3 seasons.

 

There are a handful of more refined wide receiver prospects in this class but you can make the argument that Shenault has the best combination of floor and upside of any of his colleagues. It’s why Shenault might not have the highest grade on my board but he might be worth taking as the top option of this heralded receiver class anyhow."

 

 

 

 

He has a 15 minute video here where he spends a lot of time talking about what he sees and why he thinks Shenault is not a gadget guy. Points out a couple of things he'll have to work on and also a few subtleties that are already there in his game.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Thurman#1

[whatdrought]

I’ve seen enough just watching YouTube highlights to know that he has ball tracking skills that make him a great receiver. 

[Hardhatharry]

Only time will tell... Sadly more often then not most guys end up being not as good.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Hardhatharry

[YoloinOhio]

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

If he has what listenbee did, and played through it like he did, well just read this 
 

 

 

https://www.si.com/college/2018/02/02/kolby-listenbee-lawsuit-tcu-gary-patterson-legal-analysis

 

Yikes! That’s bad for Patterson. As far as listenbee while he was with the Bills, I remember that he had sports hernia surgery and it didn’t go well so that was what ended up leading to the metal plate. So maybe a good thing if Shenault doesn’t need surgery. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yikes! That’s bad for Patterson. As far as listenbee while he was with the Bills, I remember that he had sports hernia surgery and it didn’t go well so that was what ended up leading to the metal plate. So maybe a good thing if Shenault doesn’t need surgery. 

 

What led to the metal plate in Listenbee's case was that the surrounding tissues had atrophied and possibly the bones eroded.  It was a last-ditch effort to patch him up after the first surgery and the rest and rehab failed to work, and per link above one cause of atrophy/erosion is heavy "masking" treatment and continued use rather than rest/healing.

 

So the real question is how much has Shenault been relying on corticosteroid and anesthetic injections to play and keep training and playing?  The driver for him so doing is to maintain his value as a draft pick - but it could be to the detriment of his career as I understand it.

[GunnerBill]

30 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I guess I'd be ok with Shenault if they manage to get an top X reciever via trade or FA.... I'm actually hoping they trade up if Lamb or Jeudy fall out of the top 10.

 

This is where I am. I think Shenault is a good player. If the Bills were the Saints and looking for a compliment to a clear #1 then I'd say pick him and don't think twice. I'm just not sure if I see him ever being that true #1. I can see him being a really good top end #2 receiver for someone.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yikes! That’s bad for Patterson. As far as listenbee while he was with the Bills, I remember that he had sports hernia surgery and it didn’t go well so that was what ended up leading to the metal plate. So maybe a good thing if Shenault doesn’t need surgery. 

Didn’t realize how how all that snowballed for him. If his account of either allowing 12 weeks to heal vs a result of continued degeneration is legitimate; tough break for KL who had elite straight line speed and good Contested catch traits. 
 

Maybe could have had a career on a 53 If he sat out and healed. 

[Saxum]

On 2/5/2020 at 6:51 PM, Seasons1992 said:

 

That's just it. I distinctly remember everyone mocking Vince Wilfork to us and we instead chose Lee Evans.....mocks don't mean jack.

 

Mocks are called mocks because you mock the mocker.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is where I am. I think Shenault is a good player. If the Bills were the Saints and looking for a compliment to a clear #1 then I'd say pick him and don't think twice. I'm just not sure if I see him ever being that true #1. I can see him being a really good top end #2 receiver for someone.

 

 

I don't think I can go round 1 on a non WR1..........would have to be a pretty bad draft.    Gotta' have systems to protect you from being careless.

[The Jokeman]

14 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

sign me up !

 

 

Thats what we need an explosive WR who fights for the ball and can catch.

 

 

Kinda like this #2? I can't help but see Watkins at Clemson when see Viska's college highlights, maybe because they share a number. That said I'll have to see how Viska combine measureables are but if ask me today I shake my head no.

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by The Jokeman

[Buffalo716]

14 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I’ve seen enough just watching YouTube highlights to know that he has ball tracking skills that make him a great receiver. 

I'm not saying he doesn't but he only caught like 12 passes last year beyond 15 yards .. not a lot of chances to see him track the ball last season

Edited February 14, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Buffalo716]

14 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2020/02/13/matt-waldmans-rsp-film-room-wr-laviska-shenault-jr-colorado-dont-call-him-gadget/

 

Waldman does consistently excellent breakdowns on a ton of players every year. He argues that comparing Shenault with Cordarelle Patterson isn't fair to Shenault.

 

 

"When I made my first pass through the 2020 NFL Draft class of wide receivers this summer, I wondered if Laviska Shenault might have more in common with Cordarrelle Patterson than desired. Patterson was one of the best open-field runners I’ve ever seen and when you restrict your viewing of his receiving skills to the catch-point, there appeared to be a lot of promise for Patterson to become a primary NFL receiver. Unfortunately, Patterson hasn’t demonstrated the skill to learn the intricacies of an offense required of an every-down receiver. As was shared with me before and after his rookie year, Patterson needs a lot more practice repetitions to execute assignments than the average NFL starter.

 

"Remember when Bill Belichick told the media that he promised Patterson in the spring of 2018 that he’d make Patterson as productive as his talent suggests? Although Belichick got production from Patterson, it wasn’t to expectation and Patterson was a Chicago Bear by 2019.

 

"Patterson is a gadget player with elite physical traits. On the surface, Shenault’s film looks dangerously like Patterson’s—his targets consist of a high volume of short passes, running plays from the wing and the backfield, and the occasional vertical routes when the offense can match Shenault one-on-one.

 

"A deeper look into Shenault’s game reveals a promising intermediate and vertical route runner with an above-average arsenal of footwork and hand usage against press coverage. While Shenault’s route tree is limited in Colorado’s system, his ability to sell cornerbacks with his stem work and finish off patterns with sharp breaks indicates that Shenault will become a primary option in an NFL offense within 2-3 seasons.

 

There are a handful of more refined wide receiver prospects in this class but you can make the argument that Shenault has the best combination of floor and upside of any of his colleagues. It’s why Shenault might not have the highest grade on my board but he might be worth taking as the top option of this heralded receiver class anyhow."

 

 

 

 

He has a 15 minute video here where he spends a lot of time talking about what he sees and why he thinks Shenault is not a gadget guy. Points out a couple of things he'll have to work on and also a few subtleties that are already there in his game.

I think Shenault is more polished coming out and has better hands

 

But his own coach compared him to Patterson in an interview so it definitely has merit when his coach says it

 

Even tho like me , coach said he is a more polished reciever.. I do wonder if he will be able to get open deep in the NFL consistently because he has good but not great speed

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I don't think I can go round 1 on a non WR1..........would have to be a pretty bad draft.    Gotta' have systems to protect you from being careless.

 

Sure. But when you are consistently drafting back end of the 1st like the Saints the true round 1 talents are often all gone by the time you go on the clock. Not a problem the Bills have faced much mind you. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

7 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Kinda like this #2? I can't help but see Watkins at Clemson when see Viska's college highlights, maybe because they share a number. That said I'll have to see how Viska combine measureables are but if ask me today I shake my head no.

 

 

Sammy was/is a b!tch.

 

i just like the way shenault plays.  we screwed up last year on not drafting Metcalf, hopefully we dont skip out on elite talent again. Getting a process guy and a great athlete is hard to come by.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by Buffalo Barbarian

[123719bwiqrb]

Like the kid but looks like damaged goods.  Potential for low availability, so the bills will pass in round 1.  Maybe they'll trade back up to the middle/end of the 2nd if he's still there...

[Buffalo716]

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/laviska-shenaultjr.?id=32195348-4545-8893-4e8b-5724302de088

 

Here is his NFL.com scouting report by Lance Zeirlein

 

*Comparison. Sammy Watkins /Greg Little

 

Boom or Bust

 

High end talent but not High end player yet

 

Can be pushed to boundary by bigger corners

Edited February 20, 2020 by Buffalo716

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/laviska-shenaultjr.?id=32195348-4545-8893-4e8b-5724302de088

 

Here is his NFL.com scouting report by Lance Zeirlein

 

*Comparison. Sammy Watkins /Greg Little

 

Boom or Bust

 

High end talent but not High end player yet

 

Can be pushed to boundary by bigger corners

That’s quite the spread!  Greg Little was one of the worst WRs of the modern era.  That kind of outcome would be a disaster.

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

That’s quite the spread!  Greg Little was one of the worst WRs of the modern era.  That kind of outcome would be a disaster.

I think he's conceding he has no idea what to make of him. He's an enigma