NFL.com David Carr lists Buffalo as a Potential Destination for WR Amari Cooper

[Chandler#81]

2 hours ago, OutOfBubbleGum said:

Why don't you just say Red, White and Blue? God bless America!

Why do you think?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 hours ago, PIZ said:

What’s that saying? “Money talks...Bull$&);: walks”. Beane has looked at signing big $ guys before, but hasn’t landed any......yet. 

 

Mitch Morse.  Highest paid center in the league at the time (big $$), and at 6'6" 300, quite literally a big guy.

'

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

So I want to both encourage discussion and make sure that shades 2014 does not color our views on this draft. Just because it is a deep WR class does not mean that, what we are missing on our offense overall will be found in any round and that all of the WRs are ranked closely in overall skill. The top 3 guys are yes, much better than the next 3-4 guys and the group below them and so on. Beane frequently has talked about this very concept and we all know he will move to get a player who is sliding down the board they have a high value on, especially if it is a position of need.

(....edit...)

For Edmunds in 2018 we gave up Pick #22 in RD1 and Pick #65 in RD3 to move up to pick #16 and Pick #154 in RD5; with this kind of value Beane will move for a top 3 WR. Ithink this makes sense around pick 14-16, need to jump in front of Philly & the Raiders. Easy trade to make especially with our extra 4ths and 5ths we can easily get back into RD3 and even still package them to move up in RD2 or grab another second rounder.

 

In 2017 to move from pick #10 we got #27 in RD1, plus #91 RD3 and 2018#1. Would Beane pull the trigger for Jeudy or Lamb and give up something similar? He might and this is tougher to predict.

 

Just remember we at least had talks on both AB & OBJ last year = big game WR fishing. OBJ was a #1 a 3rd and Peppers for a huge contract and a Diva. Personally I would rather make a trade like that for one of the top in this draft. I'm not addressing AB at all..

 

Edit: @Virgiljust adding you because this more fully explains my trade up for Ruggs and why (if I was free at work during the selection) I would have gone to 13 for Lamb....

 

Great post, Thanks.  Sorry for trimming it.  Good point on the tiers of talent, and why talented players who work out later are not the same tier and may take longer to contribute, even if they reach the same level.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens.  Clearly Beane has a track record of being willing to make a draft move, when he feels the value is there. 

 

My sense of how he operates is that he wants to find value, but there are only a few positions on the team that he values enough to trade up in Rd 1. 

Despite what you quoted him as saying,  I think Beane's been trying to "cheap it" on offense ("Kmart - just as good as Sears but cheaper") as much as possible and only slowly backing uphill to a realization that we need a top-tier offense and he can't build that on the resource allocation he was using.  (He moved from Kmart to Kohls or Macys). I see him as still backing uphill asking "Will this do?" "Good enough now?" at every step.   He was quoted at the Senior Bowl, absent Jrs Jeudy and Lamb, as saying there are definitely some guys here who can help us.

 

So I would be surprised at a big trade-up for WR, but I have been surprised before.  We'll know more, of course, when we see what he does in FA.

 

Tech Note if you like, you can link this post in the other thread where the issue was raised.  If you haven't done so before, click on the grey time and date to produce a link direct to your post.

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Great post, Thanks.  Sorry for trimming it.  Good point on the tiers of talent, and why talented players who work out later are not the same tier.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens.  Clearly Beane has a track record of being willing to make a draft move, when he feels the value is there. 

 

My sense of how he operates is that he wants to find value, but there are only a few positions on the team that he values enough to trade up in Rd 1. 

Despite what you quoted him as saying,  I think Beane's been trying to "cheap it" on offense ("Kmart - just as good as Sears but cheaper") as much as possible and only slowly backing uphill to a realization that we need a top-tier offense and he can't build that on the resource allocation he was using.  (He moved from Kmart to Kohls or Macys). I see him as still backing uphill asking "Will this do?" "Good enough now?" at every step.   He was quoted at the Senior Bowl, absent Jrs Jeudy and Lamb, as saying there are definitely some guys here who can help us.

 

So I would be surprised at a big trade-up for WR, but I have been surprised before.  We'll know more, of course, when we see what he does in FA.

 

Tech Note if you like, you can link this post in the other thread where the issue was raised.  If you haven't done so before, click on the grey time and date to produce a link direct to your post.

 

 

 

hated making it that long, but I felt providing a bit more info was worth it.

 

He also indicated during this offseason that he would look to use the later round picks to move up or trade them for future year picks because we don't have to fill out the roster like we did in the past and there is a good chance the 4th-6th rounders might not even make the team. Granted all of these scenarios will started to narrow down as we get through FA.

 

In the end, he will stay true to his board and if talent is slipping he will compare and go grab it, especially if it is at a position of need & WR will be the most likely position of biggest need heading into the draft, as is the point this thread (Cooper is not coming here - and I don't necessarily want to pay him what he will want). I love the idea of using other picks on WR as well as we only have 2 viable ones and letting them develop behind Brown & Beasley will be very important for rebuilding the depth there. I try not to get to wrapped up in the combine numbers, but they do provide some value. 

 

We desperately need someone who is a threat to score every time they have the ball, we were 29th in YAC as a team

 

Beasley had the most YAC on the team at 330, 44th best and grouped around players like Mixon, Goedert, Fant, Cobb & Edleman. McKenzie was 2nd and ranked #110 in YAC w/ 206 & Brown was ranked #112 w/305. This is John Ross and Amendola territory. Robert Woods was 6th in the NFL. 

 

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?lg=NFL&yr=2019&type=reg&mode=C&conf=&limit=all&sort=recyac

 

Yards/Catch we were 12th and Brown was 23rd in the league, Beasley was 2nd on the team and was 73rd in the league. We are terrible in these 2 categories 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

hated making it that long, but I felt providing a bit more info was worth it.

 

He also indicated during this offseason that he would look to use the later round picks to move up or trade them for future year picks because we don't have to fill out the roster like we did in the past and there is a good chance the 4th-6th rounders might not even make the team. Granted all of these scenarios will started to narrow down as we get through FA.

 

In the end, he will stay true to his board and if talent is slipping he will compare and go grab it, especially if it is at a position of need & WR will be the most likely position of biggest need heading into the draft, as is the point this thread (Cooper is not coming here - and I don't necessarily want to pay him what he will want). I love the idea of using other picks on WR as well as we only have 2 viable ones and letting them develop behind Brown & Beasley will be very important for rebuilding the depth there. I try not to get to wrapped up in the combine numbers, but they do provide some value. 

 

We desperately need someone who is a threat to score every time they have the ball, we were 29th in YAC as a team

 

Beasley had the most YAC on the team at 330, 44th best and grouped around players like Mixon, Goedert, Fant, Cobb & Edleman. McKenzie was 2nd and ranked #110 in YAC w/ 206 & Brown was ranked #112 w/305. This is John Ross and Amendola territory. Robert Woods was 6th in the NFL. 

 

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?lg=NFL&yr=2019&type=reg&mode=C&conf=&limit=all&sort=recyac

 

Yards/Catch we were 12th and Brown was 23rd in the league, Beasley was 2nd on the team and was 73rd in the league. We are terrible in these 2 categories 

 

 

Again, good post.  So with regard to that YAC thing, many on this board blame Allen for that, saying that if he threw a more accurate/catchable ball, our WR would have better opportunity.  Your thoughts?  I feel it's true at times, but it's far from the only story on YAC.  Per advanced stats, Allen made a lot of throws into tight windows.

 

Point for:

John Brown had more YAC/R last year

2018 3.7 YAC/R, 2019 2.9 YAC/R.

 

Point against:

Cole Beasley had less

2018 3.3 YAC/R, 2019 4.9 YAC/R

 

I would suggest that means both WR were assigned somewhat different roles in the offense, Brown an expanded route tree that included more short and intermediate routes where he was asked to operate in tighter windows; Beasley an expanded route tree beyond the slot, where he also struggled more with drops on catches he was less accustomed to making (and from a guy who throws harder too, natch)

[Reed83HOF]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Again, good post.  So with regard to that YAC thing, many on this board blame Allen for that, saying that if he threw a more accurate/catchable ball, our WR would have better opportunity.  Your thoughts?  I feel it's true at times, but it's far from the only story on YAC.  Per advanced stats, Allen made a lot of throws into tight windows.

 

Point for:

John Brown had more YAC/R last year

2018 3.7 YAC/R, 2019 2.9 YAC/R.

 

Point against:

Cole Beasley had less

2018 3.3 YAC/R, 2019 4.9 YAC/R

 

I would suggest that means both WR were assigned somewhat different roles in the offense, Brown an expanded route tree that included more short and intermediate routes where he was asked to operate in tighter windows; Beasley an expanded route tree beyond the slot, where he also struggled more with drops on catches he was less accustomed to making (and from a guy who throws harder too, natch)

Great conversation because I don't know how much this has been discussed on here and I don't disagree regarding Allen, but I do think there is a bit more to it, rarely is anything 1 direct cause.

 

Yards of Separation, Beasly was #29 in the NFL at 3.2, Knox was 65th at 2.8, Brown was 107th at 2.4. For reference #1 was 3.9. When you have a QB is to a degree inaccurate (and Allen really is not that bad) and WRs who don't get a lot of separation, you are asking for contested catches and making it harder from a YAC standpoint. They are actually pretty good from a cushion standpoint as well, Knox & Brown were near the top of the league. This does seem to indicate the answer is in the middle, we can't create great separation naturally with our WRs and Josh' inaccuracy negates the cushion that is there with the WRs, which is why a WR who can turn his speed on in a millisecond after making a contested catch is a dream for this team.

 

I'm not trying to make this a Ruggs thing, but no other players in the draft can do what he does.

 

Ruggs from the draft network:

Ability to stop on a dime on the outside leads to immediate separation on back shoulder fades or deep comebacks, which is an important counter to his primary usage.Works back across face on quick-breaking routes well and incorporates his hands with good aggressiveness. Basketball background is apparent.

 

Soft mittens. Catches naturally in stride and isn't perturbed by high-velocity balls outside of his frame. Flashes hands late and aggressively to balls that are at his full extension and quickly transitions to a runner. Able to attack balls at the highest point while elevating and has plus technique to avoid body-catching habits when working back to the football. It's just easy for him, man.

 

 A candidate for schemed touches and deep bombs due to alien speed and acceleration. Has loose hips and clean feet to change direction when he's not working at full speed; will need gather steps when he's on full throttle. Flexibility in the lower half allows for natural leverage and he has enough density to deliver hits and survive contact at a high level

 

Has true zoomies with pads on and regularly breaks the angles of his opponent's fastest defenders, which contributes to his unreal propensity for the explosive play. Instant acceleration is hugely valuable given his ability to break tackles with plus contact balance -- when he goes 0 to 100 is when he makes the most would-be tacklers look foolish. Is not uniquely elusive but has good quicks and solid vision -- is a no-nonsense runner who will take the first runway he gets

 

Locates the deep bomb quickly and will aggressively work to the football through contact. Prefers to run under passes down the field, however, and must become better at attacking deep balls as an alpha in the air, with his hips toward the line of scrimmage.

 

The cliche phrases about being a threat to score on every touch are absolutely applicable. One wrong angle or missed step by the defense can result in six points because his ability to accelerate is from another planet.

 

Ruggs from Walter football:

 

2/1/20: Ruggs had 40 catches for 746 yards and seven touchdowns in 2019. Of the tremendous group of receivers at Alabama, sources say that Ruggs is the fastest, possessing a serious ability to stretch the field. Ruggs' production was held back by Alabama spreading the ball around to its stable of talented receivers, but he is a game changer to stretch NFL defenses vertically. Ruggs suffered a concussion in the Citrus Bowl win over Michigan.

8/17/19: Ruggs (6-0, 183) goes under the radar somewhat because of Jerry Jeudy and other Alabama play-makers, but Ruggs is a dangerous receiver who produces big plays. In 2018, he totaled 46 receptions for 741 yards and 11 touchdowns. At just about any other school, Ruggs would be the No. 1 wide receiver and produce a huge stat line, especially if he played in the Big XII.

[The Jokeman]

Take a flier on Devin Funchess and draft a kid. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Take a flier on Devin Funchess and draft a kid. 

 

Why Devin Funchess?

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Why Devin Funchess?

He gives us a size WR we lack and think he'd come pretty cheap after missing most of last season so he'll want a prove it deal. 

[PIZ]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Mitch Morse.  Highest paid center in the league at the time (big $$), and at 6'6" 300, quite literally a big guy.

'

 

Where's the touché emoji?

[KOKBILLS]

22 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

3) BUFFALO BILLS: The Bills are one receiver away from having one of the top offenses in the league, especially after Josh Allen made the leap in Year 2. John Brown can take the top off the defense, Cole Beasley is a solid slot guy and Cooper would give Allen a playmaker who can win one-on-one situations and clear out the box for the run game.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001101262/article/eagles-bills-among-potential-landing-spots-for-amari-cooper?campaign=Twitter_atn

 

It's a hard pass from me...

 

I think Laviska will be better as a Rookie anyway...?

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Funchess is terrible...

We need a guy that can move the chains and be a red zone threat and think Funchess can do that on the cheap. Also If look at the UFA landscape there aren't many good WRs out there so that's why looking for a vet/rookie combo.

1 hour ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

It's a hard pass from me...

 

I think Laviska will be better as a Rookie anyway...?

I don't like Laviska, his college highlights look so much like Sammy Watkins and he has some injury concerns like Sammy. Unless he has a helluva combine I'm looking at other guys. Denzel Mims is high on my list but rather we wait til round 2 and grab Michael Pittman Jr. 

[formerlyofCtown]

On 2/5/2020 at 2:35 PM, YoloinOhio said:

I’ve mentally crossed him of the FA list since he publically stated he would not want to go to Buffalo. I would rather draft one or even two given the strength of this class than spend the $ on him. I would take one in the 1st or 2nd rd and then another later if it aligns to the Bills draft board. Already have Brown/Beasley and i like mckenzie. 

I still have hopes for Duke.  With that being said I would not cry if they got Cooper to change his mind.

[KOKBILLS]

3 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

I don't like Laviska, his college highlights look so much like Sammy Watkins and he has some injury concerns like Sammy. Unless he has a helluva combine I'm looking at other guys. Denzel Mims is high on my list but rather we wait til round 2 and grab Michael Pittman Jr. 

 

Laviska is my guy this year...He reminds me much more of a quicker version of JuJu than Sammy...To me Sammy was anti-contact...Laviska is physical like JuJu...

 

The injury thing is what it is...It's up to the Docs...

 

Over the past few years my guys for the Bills have been Chris Jones over Shaq, Pat Mahomes (who I said was the #1 overall pick in that Draft...),  DK Metcalf last year, obviously I wanted JuJu and we picked Zay...I had Baker as the #1 QB in 2017, but more than anything the one guy I did not want was Josh Rosen...

 

So doubt me at your own peril...??

 

 

 

 

[Bookie Man]

Doesn't he have a higher drop rate? Don't think he'll be worth the coin. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 2/5/2020 at 2:03 PM, MAJBobby said:

3) BUFFALO BILLS: The Bills are one receiver away from having one of the top offenses in the league, especially after Josh Allen made the leap in Year 2. John Brown can take the top off the defense, Cole Beasley is a solid slot guy and Cooper would give Allen a playmaker who can win one-on-one situations and clear out the box for the run game.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001101262/article/eagles-bills-among-potential-landing-spots-for-amari-cooper?campaign=Twitter_atn

 

Sure but dont see Beane going after big money weapons

 

 

[Nuncha]

On 2/6/2020 at 2:03 AM, NoSaint said:

add him and a few pieces and it won’t be that tough. I’d be glad for him to be our Sammy in a super bowl run

Cooper would want to be here as much as Samantha did.  No thanks.  Hope they stay far away.

[buffaloboyinATL]

On 2/5/2020 at 2:03 PM, MAJBobby said:

3) BUFFALO BILLS: The Bills are one receiver away from having one of the top offenses in the league, especially after Josh Allen made the leap in Year 2. John Brown can take the top off the defense, Cole Beasley is a solid slot guy and Cooper would give Allen a playmaker who can win one-on-one situations and clear out the box for the run game.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001101262/article/eagles-bills-among-potential-landing-spots-for-amari-cooper?campaign=Twitter_atn

Regardless of how you feel about Cooper, it definitely is cool to see "experts" considering us as a free agency destination because we are "one player away".  In the past, we were never mentioned as a possible landing spot, even if we were a good fit, because we weren't considered relevant. I have confidence in Beane to weigh the options and make the right choice, but in the meantime, I will take the speculation as a compliment to the organization and the direction we are headed in.

[njbuff]

23 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

Take a flier on Devin Funchess and draft a kid. 

Duke Williams is probably better than Funchess, so why even bother bringing him in?

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

Duke Williams is probably better than Funchess, so why even bother bringing him in?

Competition