Matt Parrino on Christian Wade: not on the 53 next year

[NoHuddleKelly12]

43 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

Babies can't even defend themselves...that's deplorable.

 

...old ladies are asking for it, though.  Don't be writing your darn checks for a $5.53 purchase!

 

 

 

 

It is imperative that I be HUDS' 3,000th up-vote.  When he gets to 2,999, please BACK OFF!

...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

...I can wait. 

It's unfortunate you got stuck behind this lady at the checkout lane...but mad props for a life well lived! 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Rugby is not like football. And it's 10000 times more complicated than see hole hit hole

 

The run blocking schemes are complex and backs spend 10-15 years perfecting how to read a hole correctly and even when he makes the league many struggle with seeing the proper hole

 

Then you have pass protection and learning a whole playbook which is like a foreign language

 

I think he has an uphill battle

 

I dunno about seeing the hole being a limit.  I think to succeed in rugby, he had to have great field vision.  I think that's the sort of thing where his rugby background should help.

 

But I don't think one can overstate the difference in learning the playbook or it being like a foreign language. 

 

In fact, it will be like 2 or 3 foreign languages.  I'm self-taught in football, and you are one of the guys I reach out to from time to time saying "WTH is he talking about here?"

 

Football has at least 2 languages, the formal language of the playbook and then the informal slang (often several slang terms for the same thing) players or players and coaches use among themselves.  We hear it a little bit when players are describing a play or when guys who break-down all-22 like Cover1's Erik Turner are talking.  They all use slang, sometimes 2-3 different slang terms, to describe the same play.   Even pretty common and widespread ones: "Cover 0, Blitz 0" may have to be explained, "all same thing!"

 

For an example I can find quickly Josh is talking in "The Wakeup Call Part II" with Kirk Cousins about a busted play with the running back that resulted in an INT (3:20 in): "We had recently gone over whether we're seeing green grass and going, or whether we're going to sit down in zone".   Kirk understands him immediately: "So he felt man and you felt it might be zone?" and starts giving Josh advice about how to do extra practice with the running back to prevent miscues like that.  Someone who didn't grow up playing football is like "OK, I understand what is man coverage....I understand zone...what is this "green grass and going" or "sit down" mean in this context?  They aren't telling me to actually SIT DOWN I know!"

 

The use of parallel languages, the formal language of the playbook and the informal slang describing defensive play and corresponding offensive play options, makes learning American football a pretty steep hill to climb.  I hope the Bills gave Wade a "colorful guide and interpreter" or two, but even so...it's very difficult because people who've grown up playing football (or even watching football) don't even know what they know, that newbies don't know!

[TigerJ]

I think he loses his special PS exemption going forward.  He does not have enough of a history to suggest the Bills have any serious plans to keep him on the roster in 2020.   I do think he's likely to be on the training camp roster.  If he lights it up in preseason, who knows what the Bills might do?

[Troll Toll]

I think the Bills kept him on the PS this year with the plan to bump him up to the 53 in 2020. I’d go as far to say that I think we would have beat Houston if Wade was out there in place of Gore.

[Lurker]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Lurker, just a note that it's not necessarily true that the contract went away when he was cut, nor that he makes the "fixed weekly rate that practice squad guys get".

 

The weekly rate that practice squad guys get is a *minimum*, and what a particular practice squad guy is paid can be negotiated between him and the team with no upper limit.

 

The two-year contract he signed became null and void when the Bills terminated it (cut him).  He signed a new contract when he went on the PS (there was a picrure of his parents coming over from England for that).   

 

With a few exceptions, the highest paid practice squad players league-wide make in the range of $20,000 per week, so $320,000 to $400,000 per season.   It's doubtful that Wade is in that group--so a much lower salary than he was making playing rugby...

 

 

This link says he's making the $8,000 minimum:

 

https://www.espn.com/rugby/story/_/id/27950435/why-rugby-stars-valentine-holmes-christian-wade-took-pay-cut-play-nfl

 

 

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Lurker

[ROCBillsBeliever]

6 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

Maybe because its fun to root for the underdog, it is akin to rooting for the Buffalo Bills, perennial themselves.... 

 

Go Bills!!!

 

@Don Otreply You're forgetting who you're talking to, here... Scott Law HATES fun! 

[GunnerBill]

55 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

The two-year contract he signed became null and void when the Bills terminated it (cut him).  He signed a new contract when he went on the PS (there was a picrure of his parents coming over from England for that).   

 

With a few exceptions, the highest paid practice squad players league-wide make in the range of $20,000 per week, so $320,000 to $400,000 per season.   It's doubtful that Wade is in that group--so a much lower salary than he was making playing rugby...

 

 

This link says he's making the $8,000 minimum:

 

https://www.espn.com/rugby/story/_/id/27950435/why-rugby-stars-valentine-holmes-christian-wade-took-pay-cut-play-nfl

 

 

 

 

$8,000 a week is more than he was making playing rugby. That would be circa £300,000 a year and that is probably about double what he was making in rugby. 

 

As I said earlier in the thread the Rugby Premiership salary cap is £7m a year and they have squads of about 40. It just is not that well paid of a sport in comparison to football or soccer. My mate who played sevens with Wade retired last year age 29 and has opened a coffee shop. 

[Lurker]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

$8,000 a week is more than he was making playing rugby. That would be circa £300,000 a year and that is probably about double what he was making in rugby. 

 

£150,000 = $195,000 USD

 

Isn't that greater than $8,000 x 17 = $136,000?

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Lurker

[Richard Noggin]

20 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Typical half-with response 

I like irony.

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

£150,000 = $195,000 USD

 

Isn't that greater than $8,000 x 17 = $136,000?

 

 

Ah but it isn't that is it? It is $136,000 plus what he was paid through OTAs, camp etc. 

[Nihilarian]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I dunno about seeing the hole being a limit.  I think to succeed in rugby, he had to have great field vision.  I think that's the sort of thing where his rugby background should help.

 

But I don't think one can overstate the difference in learning the playbook or it being like a foreign language. 

 

In fact, it will be like 2 or 3 foreign languages.  I'm self-taught in football, and you are one of the guys I reach out to from time to time saying "WTH is he talking about here?"

 

Football has at least 2 languages, the formal language of the playbook and then the informal slang (often several slang terms for the same thing) players or players and coaches use among themselves.  We hear it a little bit when players are describing a play or when guys who break-down all-22 like Cover1's Erik Turner are talking.  They all use slang, sometimes 2-3 different slang terms, to describe the same play.   Even pretty common and widespread ones: "Cover 0, Blitz 0" may have to be explained, "all same thing!"

 

For an example I can find quickly Josh is talking in "The Wakeup Call Part II" with Kirk Cousins about a busted play with the running back that resulted in an INT (3:20 in): "We had recently gone over whether we're seeing green grass and going, or whether we're going to sit down in zone".   Kirk understands him immediately: "So he felt man and you felt it might be zone?" and starts giving Josh advice about how to do extra practice with the running back to prevent miscues like that.  Someone who didn't grow up playing football is like "OK, I understand what is man coverage....I understand zone...what is this "green grass and going" or "sit down" mean in this context?  They aren't telling me to actually SIT DOWN I know!"

 

The use of parallel languages, the formal language of the playbook and the informal slang describing defensive play and corresponding offensive play options, makes learning American football a pretty steep hill to climb.  I hope the Bills gave Wade a "colorful guide and interpreter" or two, but even so...it's very difficult because people who've grown up playing football (or even watching football) don't even know what they know, that newbies don't know!

The best conviction is completion...

 

we got a gimmie go...

 

Thanks for posting that link as I've never seen that before. Loved it! 

 

Learning as an NFL QB is like taking a drink from a fire hose.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Nihilarian

[Lurker]

26 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Ah but it isn't that is it? It is $136,000 plus what he was paid through OTAs, camp etc. 

 

Huh?   Players don't get big checks through OTA's and training camp.   The get paid by weekly game checks throughout the season, unless their contract sets some other schedule (but even that is usually paid as a bonus, not salary).    He might have made $10,000-$12,000 in preseason and maybe another couple thousand at OTAs (which are voluntary and unpaid, but do have a living arrangement stipend).   Not a big deal.

 

Per the CBA:    First-year Player Per Diem: A first-year player will receive “per diem” payments, commencing with the first day of Preseason Training Camp and ending one week prior to the Club’s first regular season game, at the following weekly rates for the respective League Years: $850 (2011–12 League Years), $925 (2013–14 League Years), $1,000 (2015–16 League Years), $1,075 (2017–18 League Years), $1,150 (2019–20 League Years). 

 

As an unknown walk on, it's very doubtful that Wade had anything more than a boiler plate contract as far as any other bonus payments...

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Lurker

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Lurker said:

 

Huh?   Players don't get big checks through OTA's and training camp.   The get paid by weekly game checks throughout the season, unless their contract sets some other schedule (but even that is usually paid as a bonus, not salary).    He might have made $10,000-$12,000 in preseason and maybe another couple thousand at OTAs.   Not a big deal.

 

Per the CBA:    First-year Player Per Diem: A first-year player will receive “per diem” payments, commencing with the first day of Preseason Training Camp and ending one week prior to the Club’s first regular season game, at the following weekly rates for the respective League Years: $850 (2011–12 League Years), $925 (2013–14 League Years), $1,000 (2015–16 League Years), $1,075 (2017–18 League Years), $1,150 (2019–20 League Years). 

 

As an unknown walk on, it's very doubtful that Wade had anything more than a boiler plate contract as far as any other bonus payments...

 

Okay fair enough I didn't know that was how it worked. Even so the difference for Wade isn't that great. If we take my rough estimate of £150,000 a year at Wasps he isn't far off that in terms of a year in the NFL and the potential upside if he makes it is much larger. 

 

He left money on the table at Wasps to pursue the NFL. But he isn't massively worse off if at all. It looks like the numbers are reasonably similar. 

[Lurker]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Okay fair enough I didn't know that was how it worked. Even so the difference for Wade isn't that great. If we take my rough estimate of £150,000 a year at Wasps he isn't far off that in terms of a year in the NFL and the potential upside if he makes it is much larger. 

 

He left money on the table at Wasps to pursue the NFL. But he isn't massively worse off if at all. It looks like the numbers are reasonably similar. 

 

OK.   He's probably down $50,000 to $75,000 in salary vs. what he made playing rugby.     Maybe more, since we don't know exactly what he was making back home.

 

I wonder about endorsement money, however.   Don't well known and upper eschelon players make sponsor/endorsement money in those rugby leagues?

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

OK.   He's probably down $50,000 to $75,000 in salary vs. what he made playing rugby.     Maybe more, since we don't know exactly what he was making back home.

 

I wonder about endorsement money, however.   Don't well known and upper eschelon players make sponsor/endorsement money in those rugby leagues?

 

I suspect if anything my estimate was high on his Wasps salary. As for endorsement money... he might have made a bit but he was not upper echelon in terms of name value as proved by the fact that @Thurman#1 says his friend consider himself a die-hard rugby fan and had never heard of him. The big endorsements (and even they are just not in the league of endorsements soccer abd NFL players get) go to the guys in the England XV and Wade played for England once. 

 

Rugby Union was still fiercely amateur in the UK as recently as the mid 90s. Financially it is light years behind the NFL. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

The two-year contract he signed became null and void when the Bills terminated it (cut him).  He signed a new contract when he went on the PS (there was a picrure of his parents coming over from England for that).   

 

With a few exceptions, the highest paid practice squad players league-wide make in the range of $20,000 per week, so $320,000 to $400,000 per season.   It's doubtful that Wade is in that group--so a much lower salary than he was making playing rugby...

 

 

This link says he's making the $8,000 minimum:

 

https://www.espn.com/rugby/story/_/id/27950435/why-rugby-stars-valentine-holmes-christian-wade-took-pay-cut-play-nfl

 

Great link.  Not certain he specifically asked them what they're making vs. assuming it was practice squad standard.  But really interesting story:

 

" "It's like they're trying to learn advanced calculus, right off the bat," Leech said, "without algebra and geometry before that."

 

I assume he got to keep the $11,000 "fully guaranteed" signing bonus.  So even at $8,000/wk, $136,000 + $11,000 + ?$5,000 training camp so maybe $152,000? 

PS memo to Wade: Josh Allen studied Calculus

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I dunno about seeing the hole being a limit.  I think to succeed in rugby, he had to have great field vision.  I think that's the sort of thing where his rugby background should help.

 

But I don't think one can overstate the difference in learning the playbook or it being like a foreign language. 

 

In fact, it will be like 2 or 3 foreign languages.  I'm self-taught in football, and you are one of the guys I reach out to from time to time saying "WTH is he talking about here?"

 

Football has at least 2 languages, the formal language of the playbook and then the informal slang (often several slang terms for the same thing) players or players and coaches use among themselves.  We hear it a little bit when players are describing a play or when guys who break-down all-22 like Cover1's Erik Turner are talking.  They all use slang, sometimes 2-3 different slang terms, to describe the same play.   Even pretty common and widespread ones: "Cover 0, Blitz 0" may have to be explained, "all same thing!"

 

For an example I can find quickly Josh is talking in "The Wakeup Call Part II" with Kirk Cousins about a busted play with the running back that resulted in an INT (3:20 in): "We had recently gone over whether we're seeing green grass and going, or whether we're going to sit down in zone".   Kirk understands him immediately: "So he felt man and you felt it might be zone?" and starts giving Josh advice about how to do extra practice with the running back to prevent miscues like that.  Someone who didn't grow up playing football is like "OK, I understand what is man coverage....I understand zone...what is this "green grass and going" or "sit down" mean in this context?  They aren't telling me to actually SIT DOWN I know!"

 

The use of parallel languages, the formal language of the playbook and the informal slang describing defensive play and corresponding offensive play options, makes learning American football a pretty steep hill to climb.  I hope the Bills gave Wade a "colorful guide and interpreter" or two, but even so...it's very difficult because people who've grown up playing football (or even watching football) don't even know what they know, that newbies don't know!

There really are no holes in rugby. Sure he needs good vision but good vision doesn't equal ability to see and hit an NFL hole

 

Against 4th stringer's he saw and hit a cutback that most college players could've hit honestly and Id be almost Willing to bet that against 1s the speed of the game will be overwhelming probably

 

Running backs in football spend a decade learning how to read holes properly and many still struggle in the NFL

 

I know it's not as easy as it sounds

[Logic]

I WILL agree one thing:

Anyone counting on Wade to seamlessly step in, replace Frank Gore, and become the Bills' backup running back is probably not being realistic. Could it happen? Sure, of course it could. It's just not likely. 

The Bills ought to address the running back position as if Christian Wade doesn't exist. If he turns out to be a great player, and they're forced to make a tough decision at running back, then so be it. But they absolutely, positively should not count on Wade, and I don't think they will.

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, Richard Noggin said:

I like irony.

I’ll bet autocorrect never bit you on any of your messages or texts, eh “Richard”?

[Lurker]

49 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Great link.  Not certain he specifically asked them what they're making vs. assuming it was practice squad standard.  But really interesting story:

 

" "It's like they're trying to learn advanced calculus, right off the bat," Leech said, "without algebra and geometry before that."

 

I assume he got to keep the $11,000 "fully guaranteed" signing bonus.  So even at $8,000/wk, $136,000 + $11,000 + ?$5,000 training camp so maybe $152,000? 

PS memo to Wade: Josh Allen studied Calculus

 

Yep, that sounds about right.   Any bonus money before he was cut is his to keep.    $150K for 2019 is not bad by Buffalo cost of living standards (less so by London standards).   And as Gunner pointed out, not too big a haircut from his rugby days...

 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Lurker