Greg Olsen visiting Bills, Redskins, Seahawks

[Reed83HOF]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

This is exactly where I am.  I love me some Hard Knox.  I want him to be great!  But TE is too important to leave the position to a "hope he'll develop".  Having 1 out of every 5 "targets" (maybe 1 out of 4 catchable balls) fall to the turf is NOT ok.

I doubt we sign a bunch of bigger FAs, But Hooper at a cost of $10M a season and the dumping of Kroft & Smith save you $7M - sign me up like right now. Easiest and cheapest way to help Josh immediately and still but your Rookie WR and Knox time to grow

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I dunno about his brother, but with Dawson, the argument against 'just bad hands" is that Knox regularly seems to pull in the high degree of difficulty stuff - the ones where he has to one hand it, or where he has a defender draped all over him like a blanket, or where he has to track the ball and I'm amazed that he actually comes up with it.

 

It's the "bunnies" he drops, the ones where it's an easy catch and he could turn upfield and gain some yards.  So it could be it's more a matter of eye and of mental discipline vs. "bad hands".

 

I do not know how correctable drops due to poor "eye discipline" are, vs. simply lacking the physical catching talent.

 

 

 

This is exactly where I am.  I love me some Hard Knox.  I want him to be great!  But TE is too important to leave the position to a "hope he'll develop".  Having 1 out of every 5 "targets" (maybe 1 out of 4 catchable balls) fall to the turf is NOT ok.

 

 

I'm not to the point where I care enough to dissect "why" his hands are so bad.?   But a near 20% drop rate is ATROCIOUS.

 

And it does remind me of a story after David Boston signed that big contract with SD and struggled and one of his teammates asked him why he was dropping passes and he was like "man.....I just got bad hands".     I mean that's a stand-up guy right there!?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

I doubt we sign a bunch of bigger FAs, But Hooper at a cost of $10M a season and the dumping of Kroft & Smith save you $7M - sign me up like right now. Easiest and cheapest way to help Josh immediately and still but your Rookie WR and Knox time to grow

 

That's exactly where I am, but we might have to over-pay him to get him here, depending on what he values.  Am I the only one who fishes around a little bit trying to figure out if a player has a wife (or steady girl) and kids, or whether he's going to be upset if the local club scene isn't up to standard?

I take it with a huge grain of salt, but PFF claims he's over-valued and Henry and Ebron are better.

https://www.thefalcoholic.com/2020/2/6/21123414/pff-warns-not-to-overpay-austin-hooper-falcons-free-agency-contract-extension

 

 

[Reed83HOF]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's exactly where I am, but we might have to over-pay him to get him here, depending on what he values.  Am I the only one who fishes around a little bit trying to figure out if a player has a wife (or steady girl) and kids, or whether he's going to be upset if the club scene isn't up to standard?

I take it with a huge grain of salt, but PFF claims he's over-valued and Henry and Ebron are better.

https://www.thefalcoholic.com/2020/2/6/21123414/pff-warns-not-to-overpay-austin-hooper-falcons-free-agency-contract-extension

 

 

Great points again and PFF is on my S-list due to their awful rankings of Tre and Duck> Allen. Henry's Acl has to be like a twizzler by now (with the strain, tear and now fractured knee) & Ebron may actually really good value IMO and come in close to the $7 we can save from the 2 cuts.

 

I mean yeah - these stats look awful

 

4.68 40 yard 6'4" 255 lbs

 

From Matt Ryan
 

Now, Matt Ryan is comparing him to the position’s all-time great — Tony Gonzalez.

“Both of them are similar in that they’ve got great length. A lot of his (Gonzalez’s) separation was due to how long he was and his body position. Not necessarily breaking people off with his route, but being in the right position with his body to be able to extend and catch. And Hoop’s very much the same way in that he’s got great length and has the ability to use his length to be able to create separation.” Ryan said.

 

“They also catch the ball, extend it from their bodies really well, and that’s a huge advantage, specifically in third down and red zone situations where windows are gonna be tight. You’ve gotta be able to extend and have strong hands. Both of those guys do a great job of that,” Ryan continued.

 

Hooper was top 10 among all TEs in the NFL in receptions, receiving yards, catch percentage, receiving touchdowns, total air yards, red zone receptions, red zone target share, and target separation in 2018.

 

https://www.thefalcoholic.com/2019/8/1/20747454/austin-hooper-reminds-matt-ryan-of-tony-gonzalez-atlanta-falcons

 

For advanced stats in 2019

 

5.7 yards of cushion  = 0.2 less than Ertz & Hockenson

3.5 yards of Separation = 5th most in the league (TE & WR)

75 receptions on 97 targets = 77.32% catch percentage = 7th in the league = 2% less than George Kittle who was 79.44%

6 TDs = tied for 6th in the NFL (along with J. Brown, Diggs, Julio, Edleman, Keenan Allen, Ertz Beasley, Theilen)

#22 in receptions tied w/Larry Fitz & 1 more than OBJ

 

yeah he sounds awful

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

Great points again and PFF is on my S-list due to their awful rankings of Tre and Duck> Allen. Henry's Acl has to be like a twizzler by now (with the strain, tear and now fractured knee) & Ebron may actually really good value IMO and come in close to the $7 we can save from the 2 cuts.

 

I mean yeah - these stats look awful

 

4.68 40 yard 6'4" 255 lbs

 

From Matt Ryan
 

Now, Matt Ryan is comparing him to the position’s all-time great — Tony Gonzalez.

“Both of them are similar in that they’ve got great length. A lot of his (Gonzalez’s) separation was due to how long he was and his body position. Not necessarily breaking people off with his route, but being in the right position with his body to be able to extend and catch. And Hoop’s very much the same way in that he’s got great length and has the ability to use his length to be able to create separation.” Ryan said.

 

“They also catch the ball, extend it from their bodies really well, and that’s a huge advantage, specifically in third down and red zone situations where windows are gonna be tight. You’ve gotta be able to extend and have strong hands. Both of those guys do a great job of that,” Ryan continued.

 

Hooper was top 10 among all TEs in the NFL in receptions, receiving yards, catch percentage, receiving touchdowns, total air yards, red zone receptions, red zone target share, and target separation in 2018.

 

https://www.thefalcoholic.com/2019/8/1/20747454/austin-hooper-reminds-matt-ryan-of-tony-gonzalez-atlanta-falcons

 

For advanced stats in 2019

 

5.7 yards of cushion  = 0.2 less than Ertz & Hockenson

3.5 yards of Separation = 5th most in the league (TE & WR)

75 receptions on 97 targets = 77.32% catch percentage = 7th in the league = 2% less than George Kittle who was 79.44%

6 TDs = tied for 6th in the NFL (along with J. Brown, Diggs, Julio, Edleman, Keenan Allen, Ertz Beasley, Theilen)

#22 in receptions tied w/Larry Fitz & 1 more than OBJ

 

yeah he sounds awful

 

Agree with you on the S-list for PFF as far as player rankings, their "special secret sauce" statistics and so forth.

This is what they said:

[Hooper’s] more of a dependable, complementary piece rather than a mismatch creator. Since 2016, Hooper has gained 75.5% of his receiving production on targets defined as holes in zones or underneath the defense (think drag routes, flat routes) — by far the highest percentage in the league. Add to it that Hooper has just a 58.9 receiving grade against single coverage since 2016, and it’s clear that his production has largely been a product of the situation in Atlanta."

 

I mean, a dependable hands guy who can find holes in zones or underneath the D, use his height and body position to gain separation, and extend with strong hands for 1st downs sounds fine to me!

[Reed83HOF]

4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Agree with you on the S-list for PFF as far as player rankings, their "special secret sauce" statistics and so forth.

This is what they said:

[Hooper’s] more of a dependable, complementary piece rather than a mismatch creator. Since 2016, Hooper has gained 75.5% of his receiving production on targets defined as holes in zones or underneath the defense (think drag routes, flat routes) — by far the highest percentage in the league. Add to it that Hooper has just a 58.9 receiving grade against single coverage since 2016, and it’s clear that his production has largely been a product of the situation in Atlanta."

 

I mean, a dependable hands guy who can find holes in zones or underneath the D, use his height and body position to gain separation, and extend with strong hands for 1st downs sounds fine to me!

 

Yeah with Julio, Ridley & Sanu and Devonta - sure there were lots of people left for him the beat - talk about being the forgotten guy in coverage there - kind of sounds like a TE I would want

[YoloinOhio]

 

[DJB]

Hooper isn't coming here period. He trashed the city of Buffalo at the Pro Bowl. It ain't happening. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Well, at least he's not dragging it out.  Thought he was supposed to visit the Redskins last week, though.

[John from Riverside]

6 hours ago, DJB said:

Hooper isn't coming here period. He trashed the city of Buffalo at the Pro Bowl. It ain't happening. 

Really?  What did he say?

[BillsFan4]

12 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Really?  What did he say?

I don’t think he trashed Buffalo. Amari Cooper made it pretty clear he has no interest. Maybe that’s what he was thinking of? They had Hooper’s and Cooper’s comments together in the article, so he may have just confused the two.

 

Here are Hooper’s comments -

https://theathletic.com/1569231/2020/01/29/are-the-bills-shaking-the-siberian-stigma-it-depends-what-matters-to-nfl-players-in-free-agency/ (sub. req.)

 

Quote

The Bills also could stand an upgrade at tight end. Their quartet mustered 46 catches for 604 yards and four touchdowns.

 

Hooper over the past two seasons averaged 73 receptions for 724 yards and five touchdowns with the Atlanta Falcons. ESPN ranks Hooper 15th overall in this year’s free-agent class, second at tight end. PFF puts him 29th overall, third at tight end.

 

“Not everywhere’s Miami,” Hooper said. “Not everywhere’s Vegas. Not everywhere’s Southern California. Geographically, it’s going to be a little different. That’s the beauty of having teams all around the country. Different organizations have different positives and different deterrents. That’s in any business.”

 

And here are Amari Cooper’s comments -

 

Quote

“Location, location, location,” Cooper said when asked his impression of Buffalo as a free-agent destination. “If I had to sum it up in three words, that’s what they would be.”

 

What about money, money, money?

 

“I don’t think it’s all about money,” Cooper said. “Most players in the NFL, and if you’re a highly touted free agent, you’re going to get paid a lot of money no matter where you go. So is it worth it to go somewhere you don’t want to go?

 

“You might be a guy like me, who is from South Florida and has never played a game in the snow. Is it worth $1 million more a year or $2 million more a year, especially if you’ve been taking care of your money? Is it worth that to be in an environment you don’t want to be in? Or would you rather stay somewhere in the South?”

 

 

 

Quote

Cooper and Hooper were in agreement that quarterbacks will be pivotal to their decisions. Cooper played the past year and a half with Dak Prescott, while Hooper’s four seasons were with Matt Ryan.

 

“It’s a symbiotic relationship between a wide receiver and a quarterback,” Cooper said. “His success is a part of how I’m doing, and my success is a part of how he’s doing.

“So if I have to test the market, I’d definitely be evaluating quarterbacks to see if I want to play with them or not.”

 

[JerseyBills]

On 2/6/2020 at 8:54 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I dunno about his brother, but with Dawson, the argument against 'just bad hands" is that Knox regularly seems to pull in the high degree of difficulty stuff - the ones where he has to one hand it, or where he has a defender draped all over him like a blanket, or where he has to track the ball and I'm amazed that he actually comes up with it.

 

It's the "bunnies" he drops, the ones where it's an easy catch and he could turn upfield and gain some yards.  So it could be it's more a matter of eye and of mental discipline vs. "bad hands".

 

I do not know how correctable drops due to poor "eye discipline" are, vs. simply lacking the physical catching talent.

 

 

 

This is exactly where I am.  I love me some Hard Knox.  I want him to be great!  But TE is too important to leave the position to a "hope he'll develop".  Having 1 out of every 5 "targets" (maybe 1 out of 4 catchable balls) fall to the turf is NOT ok.  If nothing else, we need the real competition at TE that Kroft was supposed to be, and never became last season (for whatever reason).

 

It's possible that Kroft could have still been rehabbing and playing hindered, but given his current injury history, if that's true I don't think we should count on him being able to get through OTAs and preseason in one piece this year, much less 16 games. 

Exactly , he'll drop the easy ones , I think it was a rookie issue more than anything. 

I think we got our long term RB/TE in round 3. Knox will be fine. A matchup nightmare. 

 

That first throw in Giants gm was beautiful

Edited February 11, 2020 by JerseyBills

[NoSaint]

On 2/6/2020 at 11:35 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Knox is a gifted athlete but I'm concerned that he won't be able to fix his bad hands.

 

I was watching Ole Miss this fall and I was like "hey there's Dawson Knox little bro playing LB"...........and he promptly dropped a gift wrapped interception..........the spitting image of his bro and spilling the ball on the turf the same way.   

 

Those dudes might just have bad hands.

jokes aside, it could be true. Plenty of oddball genetic quirks that could effect hand eye coordination and can be the difference between great receivers and kind of clumsy ones.

 

heck, look at what’s his name, the corner we had from USC that had surgery on his eyes.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Exactly , he'll drop the easy ones , I think it was a rookie issue more than anything. 

I think we got our long term RB/TE in round 3. Knox will be fine. A matchup nightmare. 

 

That first throw in Giants gm was beautiful

 

I know, right?  All season, there would be some ridiculous throw and catch and I'd be "must be incomplete" then Dawson gets up with the ball and the LOS moves.

And then there would be an easy pitch-and-catch that would hit him right in the hands and fall to the turf.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

I honestly could give a rats ass about Amari cooper

 

he is not a process guy anyway

[Augie]

45 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I honestly could give a rats ass about Amari cooper

 

he is not a process guy anyway

 

Amari wouldn’t wear sleeves on a cold winter day. He won’t need them under his big puffy parka.....maybe.....

 

 

.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Augie

[beerme1]

32 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Amari wouldn’t wear sleeves on a cold winter day. He won’t need then under his big puffy parka.....maybe.....

 

 

Ha! Makes me think of Ed Oliver and his Y'all got coats comments lol Love Ed. 

 

[LSHMEAB]

On 2/5/2020 at 7:55 PM, Reed83HOF said:

Great point and 100% agree. i would rather spend on a younger guy entering his prime than an old guy who will give you a year or 2. While there are things I like about Knox, he was the last guy available they had ranked in that tier of TEs in the draft and his biggest knock was not catching the ball much in his career. So if it takes 2-3 years to fully develop a TE and this guy needs more experience with playing the Wr portion of this position and still has suspect hands (and sat for Kroft a bit). I am sure as hell not hitching my wagon to him developing fully. I'd rather have 2 good TEs with one in the middle or near the end of his contract when Knox is coming up. I want options and talent.

This. Not a big fan of signing or activating "mentors." If they decide to sign Olsen, it should be based on football ability and not "mentoring." Could end up with Bania if you go this route!

 

The offense is in desperate need of PLAYMAKERS, so I'd prefer their attention be focused on acquiring TALENT. 

 

The coach's should be sufficient "mentors."

[Hapless Bills Fan]

30 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

This. Not a big fan of signing or activating "mentors." If they decide to sign Olsen, it should be based on football ability and not "mentoring." Could end up with Bania if you go this route!

 

The offense is in desperate need of PLAYMAKERS, so I'd prefer their attention be focused on acquiring TALENT. 

 

The coach's should be sufficient "mentors."

 

Olsen had a good year last season.  63% catch rate, 597 yds on 82 targets in 14 games.  3.7% drops, 200 YAC.

To put it in perspective, that's about the combined yardage all 4 of our TE who played last year managed.

 

I think at positions where Beane thinks we have promising players but they need development time, he does look to bring in players who he thinks still have some juice, but who are near the end of their career and will accept 1 or 2 year deals so that as the young guys come up for their contracts he can move on without cap troubles.

 

I personally would like to see us make a push for Hooper, but I'm just not sure Beane is thinking in those terms.

 

 

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Olsen had a good year last season.  63% catch rate, 597 yds on 82 targets in 14 games.  3.7% drops, 200 YAC.

To put it in perspective, that's about the combined yardage all 4 of our TE who played last year managed.

 

I think at positions where Beane thinks we have promising players but they need development time, he does look to bring in players who he thinks still have some juice, but who are near the end of their career and will accept 1 or 2 year deals so that as the young guys come up for their contracts he can move on without cap troubles.

 

I personally would like to see us make a push for Hooper, but I'm just not sure Beane is thinking in those terms.

 

 

Hooper makes plays. Olsen catches passes (at this point in his career.) There's a distinction. So much rather they spend more for a Hooper than an Olsen, but I agree that Beane may very well not roll that way. 

 

The numbers Olsen put up are greater than I realized, so it's not like the guy can't be a contributor. Wouldn't hate it, but wouldn't love it.

 

I probably like Knox a little more than most, so a lot of the production at TE is going to hinge on his ability to CATCH THE BALL. The guy has a ton of ability.