BillsVet Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, teef said: is your though that since tre is more of an elite talent, mcd won't sign him because he can't handle him? Never said that. But during contract negotiations a player's only leverage is holding out if they don't get the offer they want. Anyone who understands human nature can see that money matters and if a player of Tre's record doesn't get that offer, I don't care how much of a culture McD has built. We haven't seen this front office hand out a big contract to a homegrown player, let alone a 1st Team All-Pro. 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: We invested a top 10 pick on the guy. If McDermott really felt uncomfortable with a guy challenging him now or down the road, we don't draft him. We would have taken someone else. Unless you're under the mindset that they drafted him not wanting him to be elite or plan on NOT extending him once he gets to the elite level. Does this make sense now? I think the thought process is to "grasp at straws to keep the agenda going". Another poster putting words in my mouth. These guys are hungry, but once established after an initial contract they want the big one. See above. 41 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: We've been competitive in 2 out of the last 3 years. Buffalo had the 3rd easiest strength of schedule in 2019. Competitive? Sure. Competitive against solid competition? Not so much. McD is 3-17 combined in his tenure against teams that advanced to the playoffs or in playoff games. You wanna run with the big dogs you gotta be better than that. Edited February 4, 2020 by BillsVet
BADOLBILZ Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 28 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: I don't think Woods was ever know as a bad guy. He was pretty much respected in Buffalo. He's from California and he went back to there. He was a FA. Gilmore was unfairly roasted on these boards but I always liked him. I'm not sure why he's being brought up in this discussion. Watkins admitted he rubbed teammates the wrong way and was a stats guy....that's a "me" person that McDermott didn't want. Dareus was constantly in trouble, making almost $100 million to be a run stuffer? A guy that you don't know if he's going to be relied on during the season since he was one more drug suspension away from what...8 games? 10? We've been competitive in 2 out of the last 3 years. I was referring more towards Dareus not playing hard and Sammy being a "me first" type of guy. Dareus' orginal contract was bad but the guarantees were money out the door.......and his base salaries were in the $9.5M range for 2017 & 2018 and the Jags then re-negotiated his deal for 2019 to lower that figure. He had zero contract leverage left by 2017. He was playing well for McD and his departure hurt and he had a huge positive impact on arrival in Jacksonville. Their run defense went from 30th prior to his arrival to 1st after it.........and he played extremely well in the playoffs and the Jags nearly made it 5 for 5 in "Whaley trash" reaching the SB in McD's first 3 years. To this day he's still better at the job than who the Bills got to replace him. And speaking of THAT guy.... The Bills have paid Star Lotulelei $25M for two years of never once better than pedestrian play at DT1T.......compare that math..........they've paid MORE for Star than they would have had to for Dareus....and frankly if they can't find a better DT1T to rotate in behind Harrison Phillips this year they should be ashamed of their scouting.
BADOLBILZ Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 45 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Very good. That just seemed way out there. This guy didn't play hard. This guy was "me first". This guy "didn't want to be in Buffalo". Just a series of vague excuses. I was not pleased at all that they let those 5 early picks go.......it was dumb.......but even I am stunned by how efficiently that group of "bad apples" has crushed the narrative that they were limiting factors in team success. It just is what it is..........McBeane(or McDermott for those who refuse to accept that Beane was the pre-ordained GM) were totally clueless wrt pro personnel and gutless with their QB decision and it's at-best set the timetable back. 1
Mojo44 Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: Please tell me that you’re not insinuating that Sammy Watkins—who put up the best half-season of WR play this century on a foot with a Jones’ Fracture—doesn’t play hard. The problem is he just doesn’t do it all the time and he didn’t want to do it all the time in Buffalo. Despite everything since, Good riddance!
Royale with Cheese Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, BillsVet said: Another poster putting words in my mouth. These guys are hungry, but once established after an initial contract they want the big one. See above. Buffalo had the 3rd easiest strength of schedule in 2019. Competitive? Sure. Competitive against solid competition? Not so much. McD is 3-17 combined in his tenure against teams that advanced to the playoffs or in playoff games. You wanna run with the big dogs you gotta be better than that. I didn't put words in your mouth. Your whole "McDermott may not want someone challenging him" is complete nonsense. The guy we drafted this year has a big personality and challenged his college coach. We still drafted him. That should be end of story but you want to continue grasping at straws. I don't understand why you are making this so hard. Well lets look at context Mr. Conspiracy. We have completely revamped our roster. He took over Rex Ryan's team, dismantled it, playing with subpar talent in 2018 because of our cap situation. Put in a rookie QB with not much talent around him. Got some talent now, the QB took a step and now we have $90 million in cap room now. The team will add more pieces. Playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years. But keep reaching for the negativity.
teef Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 45 minutes ago, BillsVet said: Never said that. But during contract negotiations a player's only leverage is holding out if they don't get the offer they want. Anyone who understands human nature can see that money matters and if a player of Tre's record doesn't get that offer, I don't care how much of a culture McD has built. well you certainly implied it didn't you? not once did you mention money or a situation where an offer wasn't good enough. if you don't want people putting words in your mouth, be more clear. personally, i think you were implying that mcd wasn't strong willed enough to deal with high profile players, and once you reflected on how absurd that sounded, you're backtracking. be clear and that wouldn't happen. i do agree that money matters, and that a sizable contract is going to be needed to keep tre. he's their guy, and if they don't pay him, i'll be shocked and greatly disappointed. they need to pay their talent, and tre had been everything they wanted and needed him to be.
BillsVet Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: I didn't put words in your mouth. Your whole "McDermott may not want someone challenging him" is complete nonsense. The guy we drafted this year has a big personality and challenged his college coach. We still drafted him. That should be end of story but you want to continue grasping at straws. I don't understand why you are making this so hard. Well lets look at context Mr. Conspiracy. We have completely revamped our roster. He took over Rex Ryan's team, dismantled it, playing with subpar talent in 2018 because of our cap situation. Put in a rookie QB with not much talent around him. Got some talent now, the QB took a step and now we have $90 million in cap room now. The team will add more pieces. Playoffs 2 out of the last 3 years. But keep reaching for the negativity. I get tired of people missing the point, so I'll re-phrase and be more pithy: No one's talking about Ed Oliver but you. Ed Oliver isn't an All-Pro. Ed Oliver has no leverage with his current contract. I'm referencing the one player on this team who made the All-Pro team and is approaching the window for the team to extend his contract. That player was selected 1st Team All-Pro in 2019 and is the only elite player on the roster. He will want big money. Players who want to get paid have limited leverage in these situations. It's an "if" at this point, but we have not seen how OBD under McD works with elite players. To date, they've allowed some to leave, but have just one (White) that they'll presumably want to retain. To @BADOLBILZ point, we've seen McD eschew these elite types and replace them with less than elite. Earlier you referenced Buffalo being competitive. If that's the standard of excellence with you, but 25-25 after 3 seasons isn't amazing. It's average and McD's losing a playoff game up 16-0 with 21 minutes left doesn't give me a lot of trust in his process of jettisoning better players for "his" guys.
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 I would take him in a second but he looked pretty washed last year. Third Leg Greg would be a great mentor and I’ll gladly get rid of Smith and/ or Knox.
Royale with Cheese Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, BillsVet said: I get tired of people missing the point, so I'll re-phrase and be more pithy: No one's talking about Ed Oliver but you. Ed Oliver isn't an All-Pro. Ed Oliver has no leverage with his current contract. I'm referencing the one player on this team who made the All-Pro team and is approaching the window for the team to extend his contract. That player was selected 1st Team All-Pro in 2019 and is the only elite player on the roster. He will want big money. Players who want to get paid have limited leverage in these situations. It's an "if" at this point, but we have not seen how OBD under McD works with elite players. To date, they've allowed some to leave, but have just one (White) that they'll presumably want to retain. To @BADOLBILZ point, we've seen McD eschew these elite types and replace them with less than elite. Earlier you referenced Buffalo being competitive. If that's the standard of excellence with you, but 25-25 after 3 seasons isn't amazing. It's average and McD's losing a playoff game up 16-0 with 21 minutes left doesn't give me a lot of trust in his process of jettisoning better players for "his" guys. Geezus dude.... You made the point that you feel McDermott might not do well with players who might challenge him. I brought up Oliver because he already has a history of it and we still took him. It doesn't matter if he's not up for another contract now...he has that personality. You don't draft a guy in the top 10 without hopes he will be elite and will be making big money on his 2nd contract. We drafted Oliver to be our difference maker and it's been rumored we were making calls to move up just to get him. What elite players have we let leave? I didn't say it's a standard of excellence or amazing LOL. Remember when you said I was putting words in your mouth. I just brought up context to the first few seasons. Oh no, we lost a playoff game in which we blew a late lead. Andy Reid, who just won the Super Bowl, has blown two 18 point leads (one was 28) in the playoffs and was below .500 entering this year. He's been criticized his whole career for playoff struggles.
ngbills Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Yea... I think it was just bad self scouting of their offense.... and they've demonstrated questionable decision making on that side of the ball in general. That trade made 0 sense. Sammy was their best weapon by far.... and he was essentially replaced by Zay Jones and Jordan Matthews which was laughable.... I recall many posters suggesting Matthews is the better reciever. ? They still haven't filled his void. So many just agree and defend whatever decisions are made. Its the blind fandom. Like if your a fan of this team how dare you question or not like anything they do. Go root for someone else mindset. We see it all the time. Im on here debating free agent signings and was just told - this FO is not stupid and wont waste money on player xyz. Go root for the Redskins if you want the team that wastes money. Then if the Bills sign the guy that same poster will be talking about how great a move it is.
Royale with Cheese Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: Dareus' orginal contract was bad but the guarantees were money out the door.......and his base salaries were in the $9.5M range for 2017 & 2018 and the Jags then re-negotiated his deal for 2019 to lower that figure. He had zero contract leverage left by 2017. He was playing well for McD and his departure hurt and he had a huge positive impact on arrival in Jacksonville. Their run defense went from 30th prior to his arrival to 1st after it.........and he played extremely well in the playoffs and the Jags nearly made it 5 for 5 in "Whaley trash" reaching the SB in McD's first 3 years. To this day he's still better at the job than who the Bills got to replace him. And speaking of THAT guy.... The Bills have paid Star Lotulelei $25M for two years of never once better than pedestrian play at DT1T.......compare that math..........they've paid MORE for Star than they would have had to for Dareus....and frankly if they can't find a better DT1T to rotate in behind Harrison Phillips this year they should be ashamed of their scouting. I don't think he was playing well because if he was, he would have been playing more but he wasn't. Dareus sat because he wasn't giving enough on the field. Your Star predictions came in well this year. How many games was he inactive? How many games did Vincent Taylor play in place of him? If Star was playing as poorly as you have been pounding the table about...he wouldn't be playing. I never said he was playing at an All Pro level, but he's at least doing his job.
Dablitzkrieg Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 I think a lot of people don't want to admit it, but as long as this regime is here with the Bills, an NFL Veteran presence will be in each room. This has been said multiple times. Lee Smith most likely will be gone if Olsen signs, but stays on if he isn't. 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I would take him in a second but he looked pretty washed last year. Third Leg Greg would be a great mentor and I’ll gladly get rid of Smith and/ or Knox. ...Knox vs Kroft?...why it that?............ 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...Knox vs Kroft?...why it that?............ Whoops! I meant Kroft!!! I’m not giving up on Knox yet.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Whoops! I meant Kroft!!! I’m not giving up on Knox yet. ....whew bro!!...makin' me nervous....
Royale with Cheese Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said: I think a lot of people don't want to admit it, but as long as this regime is here with the Bills, an NFL Veteran presence will be in each room. This has been said multiple times. Lee Smith most likely will be gone if Olsen signs, but stays on if he isn't. That's what I'm thinking too. I wonder if Sweeney will be a regular on the game day roster next year?
teef Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Geezus dude.... You made the point that you feel McDermott might not do well with players who might challenge him. I brought up Oliver because he already has a history of it and we still took him. It doesn't matter if he's not up for another contract now...he has that personality. You don't draft a guy in the top 10 without hopes he will be elite and will be making big money on his 2nd contract. We drafted Oliver to be our difference maker and it's been rumored we were making calls to move up just to get him. What elite players have we let leave? I didn't say it's a standard of excellence or amazing LOL. Remember when you said I was putting words in your mouth. I just brought up context to the first few seasons. Oh no, we lost a playoff game in which we blew a late lead. Andy Reid, who just won the Super Bowl, has blown two 18 point leads (one was 28) in the playoffs and was below .500 entering this year. He's been criticized his whole career for playoff struggles. people are also using the .500 record for this staff in a strange way...as a total negative. i get it's not a great win/loss record, but why not mention that they've been to the play offs 2 out of the three years here? doesn't kyle shannahan have a worse 3 year record over that last three than mcd and staff. he made it to the superbowl, so who cares about the 3 year record. this team is in better shape now than they were before this staff took over. i have no idea what the next few year will hold, but as of now i'm very optimistic. others...well, they just like to whine. 1
NewEra Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said: I think a lot of people don't want to admit it, but as long as this regime is here with the Bills, an NFL Veteran presence will be in each room. This has been said multiple times. Lee Smith most likely will be gone if Olsen signs, but stays on if he isn't. I agree 100%. I also think this is great and I’m glad that it’s something McB believes in. just wondering which RB we’re going replace gore with 1
Beast Posted February 4, 2020 Posted February 4, 2020 7 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said: 52-597-11.5-2TDs How on earth you arrived at this take we will never understand. Maybe Dawson Knox having a 2.5 yard per average better per catch average? Maybe Olsen being 35 years old? Maybe Olsen missing 18 games in the last three seasons? Maybe Olsen having barely over 1,000 yards total in his last three seasons? If the Bills wish to address TE in free agency, by all means go for it and pay someone that actually has had relatively good health over the last three years and whose numbers aren’t free falling during that time. Hey, maybe we can get Jason Witten to come here while we are at it, right?
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