"Fraternities have been around 200 years and caused few problems"

[RochesterRob]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

KD, that’s the thing.  Cornell has an absolute prohibition on hazing - in general, not just for fraternities.  Sports teams, sports clubs, the Marching Band, and various frats have been disciplined in recent years.  Several frats and sororities have been recently suspended, some permanently.   Their fraternity houses are grad student housing or dorms now.   All this info is publicly available on their website.   Strict regulations were put in place where during their first fall, Greek houses have regulations about having parties at their houses.  Rush takes place in January and is closely supervised.

 

And then still there’s this.

  Cornell football had a TERRIBLE problem with drugs when I was there.  They were probably going through coke by the 5 gallon pail full.  I would not have minded going out for the team but knew that kind of partying was only going to lead to failure for a guy like me.  Unlike a lot of those guys the family was not waiting with a job for me that would allow for a pretty nice life once I washed out or limped through school.  George Seifert was a coach there briefly and word was that was what drove him back out west to SF (fired but the relationship was fractured well before that because he could not run things the way he saw fit to do -fed up being a college coach).  Not that NFL players do not party but at least they can a find a way to win or they get cut.  No pressure by alums to keep a failure on the team.

Edited February 2, 2020 by RochesterRob

[Boca BIlls]

45 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You’re entitled to your take, but I’m curious about how you get there.  The frat was breaking the law.  They were breaking school rules.  They were breaking their own Intrafraternity Council rules.  They set up competitions to mandate rapid consumption of near-fatal quantities of alcohol.  

 

I can kind of go with the kids made a choice to go to the party, then to stay there once they learned what was involved.  But it seems to me there’s an element of playing Russian roulette and then saying “shooting happens” when someone gets killed.

I meant ***** happens in the world we live in. 

[RochesterRob]

3 hours ago, Lurker said:

My fraternity days were terrific then--and terrifying now.  

 

Our house (if you can call it that--it was actually a dorm wing at RIT) had two--count em, two--bars.  A full-service one upstairs with a walk-in cooler and two taps serving 24/7 and a downstairs bar for people too lazy to walk upstairs.    Since drinking age was 18, there were plenty of hang overs and missed 8:00 am classes, to say the least.

 

And at the same time, the bonds of friendship formed in those years were the stongest I've ever had.   There was never pressure to do anything to anyone.  It was the living embodiment of the "Animal House" film, which is like a biopic of my life as an 18-20 year old.

 

And yet, the edge that we walked was so, so razor thin.   A good one-third of my brothers flunked out due to the partying--even as another third went on to have fantastic jobs and careers after graduation.     Several years after I left, the chapter was booted off campus for bad behavior.   They eventually served their time and were allowed to return--only to be booted off again and dissolved a few years after that.

 

I always wonder what the guys who dropped out are doing with their lives today.   And how any administration would allow the bar situation we had to go unchecked for so long.   But at the same time, I wonder if I would be the person I am if I hadn't lived it.   

 

I may not be a U.S. Senator, but I would not trade that experience for anything...

  You go back a ways as the drinking age was progressively raised from 18 to 21 during the early 1980's.  As far as brothers flunking out from what I could see it did not go well.  Many were locked into life times of poor habits and menial jobs.  I couple that I knew took their lives as they could not resolve their desires with their accomplishments or lack of.  My story is somewhat complex.  I should have pushed myself harder but do not blame alcohol or other people for what I failed to do.  For the most part I am happy with where I am at in life.  I just worry due to circumstances I might have to make a change in life a little after when I thought that might happen.

[Troll Toll]

Having seen what I’ve seen. It is absolutely 100% on the frats. They are supposed to be brotherhoods, but they force people to consume deadly amounts of alcohol. I don’t know what it was like decades ago, but from what I saw 10-15 years ago it was really scary. These kids are too young to know how dangerous what the frat is putting them up to do is. They don’t know their limits and they are trusting these “experienced” people in the frats. These stories are extremely sad to me because the victims put their trust in people who simply don’t care about them.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  Cornell football had a TERRIBLE problem with drugs when I was there.  They were probably going through coke by the 5 gallon pail full.  I would not have minded going out for the team but knew that kind of partying was only going to lead to failure for a guy like me.  Unlike a lot of those guys the family was not waiting with a job for me that would allow for a pretty nice life once I washed out or limped through school.  George Seifert was a coach there briefly and word was that was what drove him back out west to SF (fired but the relationship was fractured well before that because he could not run things the way he saw fit to do -fed up being a college coach).  Not that NFL players do not party but at least they can a find a way to win or they get cut.  No pressure by alums to keep a failure on the team.

 

@RochesterRob, do you mind telling ~ when this was?

 

Depending upon what college you're in, def. need to balance social life and partying.  Kid is CoE - unless you're a genius, you better study a lot or you'll flunk out. 

[RochesterRob]

18 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

Having seen what I’ve seen. It is absolutely 100% on the frats. They are supposed to be brotherhoods, but they force people to consume deadly amounts of alcohol. I don’t know what it was like decades ago, but from what I saw 10-15 years ago it was really scary. These kids are too young to know how dangerous what the frat is putting them up to do is. They don’t know their limits and they are trusting these “experienced” people in the frats. These stories are extremely sad to me because the victims put their trust in people who simply don’t care about them.

  The best education that I ever saw while in college was words of warning that nobody is going to look out for you but yourself.  This was said in regards into many things including birth control and not giving out passwords for anything you had going on with a computer.  As one prof said there are people out there that would be only be too happy to ruin you to feel better about themselves.  I don't think  that truer words were ever spoken.

Edited February 2, 2020 by RochesterRob

[RochesterRob]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

@RochesterRob, do you mind telling ~ when this was?

 

Depending upon what college you're in, def. need to balance social life and partying.  Kid is CoE

  Seifert was there during the mid-1970's and I was there during the 1980's.  I knew a guy who was briefly on the team but quit before one season.  This is where I got to know what I do about it.  The guy in question was a house mate in the student  residence I lived in on North Campus.  He had quite a problem with coke but was in denial about it while I knew him.  But even he could recognize that there was a such a thing as too much.  He barely made it through Cornell.  

[Another Fan]

18 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  The best education that I ever saw while in college was words of warning that nobody is going to look out for you but yourself. 

Once I finished school and started working for a living I tended to think college was kind of a scam.  Only personal opinion there.

 

But that line you mentioned is certainly something I took away from it although nobody told me it directly.  You gotta do you and make decisions you think are best for yourself 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Another Fan

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...don't really want to describe what we went through as fraternity pledges back in 1971 for Hell Week....will share that being a 5'10", 265 lb defensive lineman, I threatened to beat the s*^t out of members that went beyond "bustin' my pelotas"...somehow they got the message (COUGH). ... we did put pledges in subsequent years through some nasty stuff, but NOTHING was ever life threatening or potential injurious to their health...alcohol was NEVER a force fed factor.....

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You’re entitled to your take, but I’m curious about how you get there.  The frat was breaking the law.  They were breaking school rules.  They were breaking their own Intrafraternity Council rules.  They set up competitions to mandate rapid consumption of near-fatal quantities of alcohol.  

 

I can kind of go with the kids made a choice to go to the party, then to stay there once they learned what was involved.  But it seems to me there’s an element of playing Russian roulette and then saying “shooting happens” when someone gets killed.

 

Apologies, the OP was too painful for me to fully read. BUT, as you point out above, EVERYBODY is to be held accountable. If not in court, then eventually in other ways.  It’s not either/or.  It’s the frat, it’s the school, it’s the kid and anyone else who has a chance to prevent a tragedy.

 

My school didn’t have Greek life, and I think this is one of the reasons. We still had plenty of stupidity and people could have died.  I found a kid from my floor freshman year sleeping in the snow on the railroad track on the way back from the bar. Sadly on one occasion a kid did actually did die due to a freak accident. You never get that chance back. 

 

We all want to fit in on some level, and the networking etc can be of real value. What I hate the most is the pressure to be stupid. To be pushed to do something dangerous. Everyone knows it can come with the territory. You look into different frats and decide if that’s something you want to be a part of. Everybody plays their roles, everybody makes their decisions, and everybody faces the consequences. Sometimes the ultimate consequence.  

 

 

.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Augie

[WhoTom]

2 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

I meant ***** happens in the world we live in. 

 

Oh. That totally clears it up, then.

 

 

[Mark80]

I went there, was in a frat there.  The frat culture there was pretty dangerous back then (20 years ago now, yikes).  Rampant alcohol, rampant drug use, tons of well off kids that went there without having any previous experience in those matters, which is a recipe for disaster.  We were not even close to the worst though.  I don't think we were really ever forced to drink to extremes that I head and saw from others. 

 

My fraternity, specifically, has really toned it back still though.  Pledging is highly restricted now and very short.  Rush week is toned way down too.  Unfortunately, that is not the case for all of them there.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Mark80

[RochesterRob]

18 hours ago, Another Fan said:

Once I finished school and started working for a living I tended to think college was kind of a scam.  Only personal opinion there.

 

But that line you mentioned is certainly something I took away from it although nobody told me it directly.  You gotta do you and make decisions you think are best for yourself 

  Another gem was the advice given out the first day of class freshman year.  It went along the lines of if you are not here for reasons other than your own self purpose then save yourself many years of misery and go get a degree in something that you can be satisfied with.  Too many kids are there for a law degree or some other discipline because that is what dad wanted them to do versus something that the kid would be happy doing.  It does not mean pissing away your time at college with something you can't use but just survey the landscape and choose something that can be used to support yourself and be happy at.  Don't want to be a lawyer but would enjoy teaching kids then get the degree in education!

[Marv's Neighbor]

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son!  Dean Wormer

[ExiledInIllinois]

13 minutes ago, mead107 said:

Anything on the lawsuit 

Check back in 6 or 7 years.  Lawyers take their time.  They hope you also die first.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

They violated the laws but only because the laws are ridiculous. If a kid is mature enough to sign his name on the line to enter the Army, he should be given the ability to drink or smoke cigarettes. And if he's mature enough to sign that line, he damned well oughtta be mature enough to walk away from a ***** situation.

[Mr Info]

I was in a frat and was both social chairman & president during my time at school. It was quite close to Delta Tau in Animal House.

Plenty of great stories & memories...I could write a book & some stories would put Delta Tau to shame.

Still close with many of my frat brothers & we get together for events (Bills games, golf outings, college reunions, etc.) 

Frats not for everyone but enjoyed & still enjoying my time associated with the frat.