Sammy Watkins 'scarred' by Bills trade, didn't want to be in Buffalo

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, whatdrought said:

 

I gotcha. I think they do regret paying him, in that they're going to be cutting him or re-doing his contract. If they didn't regret it, they wouldn't change anything. They should have paid him about 10 million a year instead of the close to 20 or whatever it is that he got because he just isn't worth that contract. Just because he played well down the stretch doesn't mean they wouldn't rather be paying him what he's actually worth. 

They won a SB and he’s been their most productive playoff receiver since he signed there.  More than Kelce and Hill.  If your team wins the SB, you don’t regret anything.  Put it this way.  If We had Sammy and won the SB, would you be complaining?

 

no one is disagreeing that he hasn’t leave up to his draft position.  For some reason, the Bills play in a different league offensively than The rest of the nfl.  200 yards passing is a major accomplishment in the nfl.  However most other teams realize you need as many threats as possible to scare defenses.  It’s not a coincidence that Sammy has played on top 5 offenses since he left Buffalo.  He demands attention and when he doesn’t get it, he is capable of making plays.  So even though the numbers don’t suggest it, defenses fear a Sammy Watkins more than a Beasley (who I love).  
 

with our cap the way it is, I’d completely fine overpaying for receiving talent to see if Allen really is the guy.  I’d rather have a problem of too many threats than too little. 

[BADOLBILZ]

52 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

WRT Lofton, PFR only has his catch rate that last year in Buffalo.  So, I can't see his historical numbers.  His targets dropped way off after that.  But 51 receptions is pretty respectable.  His yards per reception was also on the decline, hinting to me his speed and agility were fading.

But with career ypc around 18, he was always a deep threat type receiver and I wonder if that would skew his catch rate.

 

You got a source with his historical catch rate?   Otherwise, your argument seems pretty weak.

 

For me my memory and the fact that I've seen all those 1992 Bills games many times is where I derive my intel about Lofton dropping open passes.

 

The numbers strongly support it also...........you want context but at the same time you said his ypr was in decline when he was still 18th in the NFL in ypr in 1992.........but 141st of 161 in catch rate.

 

But if you don't like the Lofton reference keep in mind that TO lead the NFL in drops his last year in Dallas and in his final 3 years he was basically a 50% catch rate when his career catch % rate was 59% before that.    His ypr was still good though.   Same with Jerry Rice in his last two years.   Big drop in catch% but still pretty good in ypr.

 

The reason a lot of these guys think they can still play is because the can still put up the speed/quickness numbers that are easy to quantify............catching the football in an NFL game while doing it is a different story.

 

The hands certainly don't ALWAYS go first either..........Eric Moulds lost all of his speed and quickness by the time he left Buffalo but could still catch the ball fairly well...........but the perception that all WR's lose the ability to run first is not at all accurate.   

[Billl]

3 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

That's such a false equivalency. They made him the highest paid receiver in the league, they paid him to be a number 1, and he's been a marginal number 2 to 3. Those five catches (not six) that he had in the SB didn't even lead his team. Production in one game does not justify the contract, and that's exactly why they will be trying to get out of the contract this year. 

There's no such thing as trying to get out of a contract.  It wasn't guaranteed, so they will just cut him off that's what they want.  I'm literally watching the Super Bowl parade broadcast live from Kansas City as I type this.  If they're disappointed about signing him, they're putting on a very good poker face.

[whatdrought]

Just now, Billl said:

There's no such thing as trying to get out of a contract.  It wasn't guaranteed, so they will just cut him off that's what they want.  I'm literally watching the Super Bowl parade broadcast live from Kansas City as I type this.  If they're disappointed about signing him, they're putting on a very good poker face.

 

And they likely will.. Because he's overpaid. No matter what he did in the Superbowl. 

 

Let me put this in an illustration that some of you people might understand. 

 

You're walking down the street and decide you'd like a taco for lunch. You look around and see a Mighty Taco. Ecstatic, you run in and buy a jumbo taco for $3. You eat the taco and are satisfied. You continue walking down the street and 2 minutes later you pass another Mighty Taco. You look in the window and see a sign advertising the same jumbo taco you just bought. This store is running a sale- they sell this taco for $1.50! You're taken aback. Though you're now full and satisfied with the taco you just ate, you realize that you've overpaid for the taco and that leaves you regretful. Even though you're still happy with the way the taco that you consumed performed (as far as tacos go), you wish you hadn't overpaid for it. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 minutes ago, Billl said:

There's no such thing as trying to get out of a contract.  It wasn't guaranteed, so they will just cut him off that's what they want.  I'm literally watching the Super Bowl parade broadcast live from Kansas City as I type this.  If they're disappointed about signing him, they're putting on a very good poker face.

what does a parade about what they just did last season have to do about what they are going to do, next season? 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

9 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

And they likely will.. Because he's overpaid. No matter what he did in the Superbowl. 

 

Let me put this in an illustration that some of you people might understand. 

 

You're walking down the street and decide you'd like a taco for lunch. You look around and see a Mighty Taco. Ecstatic, you run in and buy a jumbo taco for $3. You eat the taco and are satisfied. You continue walking down the street and 2 minutes later you pass another Mighty Taco. You look in the window and see a sign advertising the same jumbo taco you just bought. This store is running a sale- they sell this taco for $1.50! You're taken aback. Though you're now full and satisfied with the taco you just ate, you realize that you've overpaid for the taco and that leaves you regretful. Even though you're still happy with the way the taco that you consumed performed (as far as tacos go), you wish you hadn't overpaid for it. 

And now you need to go into the second one as you now need a bathroom. 

[whatdrought]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

And now you need to go into the second one as you now need a bathroom. 

 

That honestly almost made it into my post, but I didn't want to muddy the waters... Pun definitively intended. 

[billsfan_34]

6 hours ago, SirAndrew said:

My wife who knows nothing about football commented that he plays soft. She noticed him frequently running out of bounds before contact losing additional yardage, and not always putting effort into his routes. A guy having a couple big days in that KC offense doesn’t impress me that much. He just happened to pick the postseason to have those big games. Watkins has all the talent in the world, but I question if the “extraterrestrial being” or whatever he claims to be is fully devoted to the game. 

This^ he’s a decent player to have, but isn’t worth that contract. He needed to be in the same class as Hill, and Kelce to justify it.

Your wife is accurate in her assessment. He is super soft and will never go for the extra yards. What a waste of talent.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

Your wife is accurate in her assessment. He is super soft and will never go for the extra yards. What a waste of talent.

Yet he had more receiving yards than any Chief in the last 2 postseasons and won the SB.  Not bad for being soft and wasting talent. 

[CommonCents]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I mean, mid 40%'s was awful then and it's awful now.

 

James Lofton was 161st out of 165 qualifying receivers in catch % in 1993.

 

Dude just couldn't catch the football anymore.

 

But like TO he could still get open.

 

 

 

Wow. 

 

Catch rate is not drop rate. I’d suggest backing up your assertions that they suddenly forgot how to catch with some drop rate numbers. 

 

A decrease in catch rate is an indication a guy has slowed down and is getting open less often, thus he is now attempting more contested catches. 

 

 

[Billl]

15 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

Your wife is accurate in her assessment. He is super soft and will never go for the extra yards. What a waste of talent.

This is a terribly misinformed take.  He's generally regarded as one of best WRs in the game at getting yards after the catch.  He had 141 in a single game this year which was the highest total in a decade.  People forget how young he still is as well.  He's actually younger than Cooper Kupp.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/curtisrush/2020/02/03/super-bowl-star-sammy-watkins-is-a-reminder-of-what-the-buffalo-bills-once-had-and-gave-up/amp/

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, CommonCents said:

Wow. 

 

Catch rate is not drop rate. I’d suggest backing up your assertions that they suddenly forgot how to catch with some drop rate numbers. 

 

A decrease in catch rate is an indication a guy has slowed down and is getting open less often, thus he is now attempting more contested catches. 

 

 

 

 

I'm not just referencing stats wrt Lofton...........I literally saw all of those game multiple times............I have the tapes.........he was dropping balls he could have caught in his sleep earlier in his career.    That's why the Bills let him go after 1992.    I mean he was still one of the top ypr guys in the entire league so drawing the conclusion that he "just slowed down" is quite a stretch.

 

Jerry Rice and TO went out the same way..........in world class shape and could still run like a good starting NFL WR.........but the hands started to fail them..........see TO leading the NFL in dropped passes the year prior to coming to Buffalo.   

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

27 minutes ago, Billl said:

This is a terribly misinformed take.  He's generally regarded as one of best WRs in the game at getting yards after the catch.  He had 141 in a single game this year which was the highest total in a decade.  People forget how young he still is as well.  He's actually younger than Cooper Kupp.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/curtisrush/2020/02/03/super-bowl-star-sammy-watkins-is-a-reminder-of-what-the-buffalo-bills-once-had-and-gave-up/amp/

Well for those who hated him, I guess if he stayed, TT put up better #'s & the Bills offense wasn't ranked 30th in 2017 then maybe no JA and where would they be now.

 

Conversely, same 9-7 record in 2017, a little excitement on offense and a #1 for JA in 2018 & beyond.  

 

The point is the trade to LA was stupid (seemed to be out of spite regardless of what anyone says) & the Bills offense still has a long way to go & the search for a #1 receiver continues.  

[Billl]

11 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Well for those who hated him, I guess if he stayed, TT put up better #'s & the Bills offense wasn't ranked 30th in 2017 then maybe no JA and where would they be now.

 

Conversely, same 9-7 record in 2017, a little excitement on offense and a #1 for JA in 2018 & beyond.  

 

The point is the trade to LA was stupid (seemed to be out of spite regardless of what anyone says) & the Bills offense still has a long way to go & the search for a #1 receiver continues.  

This board just has a bizarre habit of saying that every player not on the Bills is garbage.  This goes double for former Bills.  Triple for former Bills who were major contributors on Super Bowl winners. 

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

This board just has a bizarre habit of saying that every player not on the Bills is garbage.  This goes double for former Bills.  Triple for former Bills who were major contributors on Super Bowl winners. 

 

 

Yes his play in the last two playoff years really pissed off a lot of people.....  As does his salary.

 

I can only imagine when the Bills start paying to keep some of their players & the reaction if they don't play commensurate with those $'s.....?

Edited February 6, 2020 by Billsfan1972

[billsfan_34]

12 hours ago, Billl said:

This is a terribly misinformed take.  He's generally regarded as one of best WRs in the game at getting yards after the catch.  He had 141 in a single game this year which was the highest total in a decade.  People forget how young he still is as well.  He's actually younger than Cooper Kupp.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/curtisrush/2020/02/03/super-bowl-star-sammy-watkins-is-a-reminder-of-what-the-buffalo-bills-once-had-and-gave-up/amp/

He has a few anomaly game under is belt I will give you that.

On 2/5/2020 at 9:20 PM, C.Biscuit97 said:

Yet he had more receiving yards than any Chief in the last 2 postseasons and won the SB.  Not bad for being soft and wasting talent. 

Definitely played better post season

[thebandit27]

On 2/5/2020 at 7:12 PM, billsfan_34 said:

Your wife is accurate in her assessment. He is super soft and will never go for the extra yards. What a waste of talent.

He was 10th in the NFL amongst WRs in YAC/reception.

[TheFunPolice]

Sammy is incredibly talented, and it shows when he has spurts where he makes huge plays.

 

If he had Tom Brady's intensity and work ethic he might be one of the GOATS at WR

[dave mcbride]

On 2/5/2020 at 2:24 PM, GaryPinC said:

WRT Lofton, PFR only has his catch rate that last year in Buffalo.  So, I can't see his historical numbers.  His targets dropped way off after that.  But 51 receptions is pretty respectable.  His yards per reception was also on the decline, hinting to me his speed and agility were fading.

But with career ypc around 18, he was always a deep threat type receiver and I wonder if that would skew his catch rate.

 

You got a source with his historical catch rate?   Otherwise, your argument seems pretty weak.

Lofton's drops in his final season with the Bills were both abundant and alarming. My best friend in Buffalo lost good money because Lofton dropped the easiest of TD throws right in his hands in the last minute or so of the 1992 season SB that would have made the score 59-24. (He was playing squares and had 9 and 4.)

[GaryPinC]

On 2/5/2020 at 3:34 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

For me my memory and the fact that I've seen all those 1992 Bills games many times is where I derive my intel about Lofton dropping open passes.

 

The numbers strongly support it also...........you want context but at the same time you said his ypr was in decline when he was still 18th in the NFL in ypr in 1992.........but 141st of 161 in catch rate.

 

But if you don't like the Lofton reference keep in mind that TO lead the NFL in drops his last year in Dallas and in his final 3 years he was basically a 50% catch rate when his career catch % rate was 59% before that.    His ypr was still good though.   Same with Jerry Rice in his last two years.   Big drop in catch% but still pretty good in ypr.

 

The reason a lot of these guys think they can still play is because the can still put up the speed/quickness numbers that are easy to quantify............catching the football in an NFL game while doing it is a different story.

 

The hands certainly don't ALWAYS go first either..........Eric Moulds lost all of his speed and quickness by the time he left Buffalo but could still catch the ball fairly well...........but the perception that all WR's lose the ability to run first is not at all accurate.   

Jerry Rice is a great example.  Catch rate dropped his last 2 years when their quarterbacking was a mess in SFO then climbed back up in Oakland for a couple years with Rich Gannon.  Catch rate is also a factor of the receiver's ability to get open, role in the offense and the QB's ability to deliver him a catchable ball, to name just a few.  It's not a simple measure of ability to catch the ball.  

I'm fine with believing Lofton's drop rate went up but you watching and charting drops in several years of games would be more meaningful than a one year catch percent.  There's no context and therefore makes a weak argument.

TO's another example, was lower catch rate hand-eye coordination, ability to get open or playing with marginal QB'S has last couple years?