Sammy Watkins 'scarred' by Bills trade, didn't want to be in Buffalo

[2003Contenders]

Sammy wasn't a horrible player during his time in Buffalo. In fact, he had a promising rookie season -- and was quite effective when healthy.

 

The issue was that he had trouble staying healthy -- especially with chronic foot problems. When DW traded from 9 up to 4 (and in the process traded away the 2015 1st rounder and other draft capital) , he was hoping for a Julio Jones sort of player. While Sammy had his moments, he never developed into that kind of player. What's more, the team was not in the position (especially with lingering questions at the QB position) to invest so much in a single player -- even if he HAD been the stud WR the team was hoping he would be.

 

When the new regime came aboard back in 2017, they were looking to clean house and they were not invested in Sammy Watkins as they were not tied to the trade in any way. Also, Sammy was nearing the end of his rookie contract -- so the team was happy to get something in terms of compensation for him. They netted a 2nd rounder from the Rams.

 

Obviously that ship has sailed -- but truthfully, the offense could use a player with his skill-set to compliment Brown and Beasley.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

This^ Sammy had a great Super Bowl, but between injuries and lack of productivity (3 TD’s in week 1, with none the rest of the regular season), Sammy wouldn’t have had the chance to shine without his team carrying him. Hill and Kelce carried them to the postseason, and Sammy happened to step up at the right time. Take away Mahomes, Hill and Kelce, and who knows where that team would have been. Sammy played well, but take away all the other weapons leaving Mahomes with just Watkins as the number one, and I doubt they have the second seed in the AFC. 

It bears repeating that in his four last postseason games, Watkins has 416 yards and is averaging 21.9 yards per touch.

[thebandit27]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

It seems a lot of people around here seem to forget KC paid Sammy $16m per year, insane deal at time he got it.

 

There was ZERO chance we were paying him anything near that, nor should anyone.  Beane already knew what they were going to be seeking and said so, and said he knew he couldn’t afford to resign him.  He literally said this was the core motivator in the trade, the inability to resign him.

 

Beane made the RIGHT and only choice he had, and he got pretty good compensation in return given what Sammy had showed the previous 2 seasons here.  
 

Sammy is soft.  I was one of his biggest fans, but he doesn’t have the drive to be great.  He has a ton of talent, and when be pushes himself he can do great things.  But he just doesn’t have that drive to do it week in and week out.  
 

We are in a great spot to add some serious WR talent in the draft this year, so who cares about Sammy who just wants to “chill” next year

Sorry, but they created that situation themselves. They could have kept him for 2017, picked up his option for 2018 (same $$ as Benjamin), and transition tagged him for 2019 without any long-term commitment whatsoever.

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Sammy Watkins 2019- 52 catches 673 yards 3 TDs

 

John Brown 2019- 72 catches 1060 yards 6 TDs

When Sammy’s QB needed him to make a play in the playoffs, he did it...repeatedly.

 

When John Brown’s QB needed him, he couldn’t manage to drag a foot.

 

I’m not stumping for Sammy, but let’s be practical about our comparisons.

Edited February 3, 2020 by thebandit27

[SirAndrew]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It bears repeating that in his four last postseason games, Watkins has 416 yards and is averaging 21.9 yards per touch.

That’s great, I give him credit for that, but he’s not a number one WR who a team can ride to the playoffs. The dude is a playmaker who disappears more often than not. He has played with heart and effort during the playoffs that he lacks during the regular season. He had 3 TD’s this season, that isn’t a number one. Hill and Kelce are the receivers who got this team to the playoffs, Sammy happens to be the one who stepped up during the playoffs. 

[thebandit27]

3 hours ago, Jaraxxus said:

 

Sammy Watkins was never a true #1. Not here. Not in LA, and not in KC either.

 

If he'd stayed here, he'd have wanted to be paid like a #1.

 

He had 1,060 yards on less than 100 targets playing with Tyrod Taylor in an offense that threw the call less than any other unit in the game in 2015.

 

That’s WR1 performance all day.

[SirAndrew]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Sorry, but they created that situation themselves. They could have kept him for 2017, picked up his option for 2018 (same $$ as Benjamin), and transition tagged him for 2019 without any long-term commitment whatsoever.

When Sammy’s QB needed him to make a play in the playoffs, he did it...repeatedly.

 

When John Brown’s QB needed him, he couldn’t manage to drag a foot.

 

I’m not stumping for Sammy, but let’s be practical about our comparisons.

Comparing John Brown’s toe drag to Sammy running past defenders in that offense is comparing apples to oranges. Brown failed on that play no question, but playing with Mahomes, Hill, and Kelce is different than Allen, Beasley, and Stonehand Knox. Sammy is given far more opportunity to step up than Brown. Sammy had an average season, and is a talented WR who puts up

average numbers. He’s like the Nick Foles of WR’s. I’ll take him in the playoffs, but wouldn’t depend on him being the leading WR during the regular season. He’s just an expensive number two WR.

[thebandit27]

Just now, SirAndrew said:

Comparing John Brown’s toe drag to Sammy running past defenders in that offense is comparing apples to oranges. Brown failed on that play no question, but playing with Mahomes, Hill, and Kelce is different than Allen, Beasley, and Stonehand Knox. Sammy is given far more opportunity to step up than Brown. Sammy had an average season, and is a talented WR who puts up

average numbers. He’s like the Nick Foles of WR’s. I’ll take him in the playoffs, but wouldn’t depend on him being the leading WR during the regular season. He’s just an expensive number two WR.

Yes, that’s exactly my point. We can’t simply say “one guy did this and the other did that” in a vacuum.

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

Sorry, but they created that situation themselves. They could have kept him for 2017, picked up his option for 2018 (same $$ as Benjamin), and transition tagged him for 2019 without any long-term commitment whatsoever.

 

No, Whaley created our cap situation, Beane and McD did not.  And they were not willing to pay him what the money was going to be if they tagged him, Beane has said this.  The entire reason they did not keep him was $$$, they did not want to spend so much money on him moving forward, so they got a pretty good return for him while they could.  

 

Sammy was no lock to have a good year in 2017, he had been struggling when on the field the year before, and struggled through injuries.  Had he had another mediocre season, no way they get a 2nd round pick for him.  Better WR's have been traded for less, better players at all positions have been traded for less. To get a 2nd round pick for Sammy then was PURELY on potential, not production.  

 

We had a questionable QB and a WR who had been injury prone, and self admits had a big attitude problem while here in Buffalo.  Moving him was absolutely correct if they already knew they were NOT willing to pay him, and Beane said they were not.  

 

And this guy has done nothing since leaving Buffalo...literally nothing.  WR's making fractions what he makes outproduce him every single year both on his own teams and across the NFL.  Good for him for having a strong showing in the SB, but so did guys like Larry Brown, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco etc that had big playoff performances one year and then got GROSSLY over paid fro the rest of their career.

 

And I am a guy who used to defend Sammy.  But its CRYSTAL clear to me now, this guy does not have the motor, drive, commitment, etc to maximize his potential.  He has been a starting WR on the most explosive offenses in the NFL now for 3 years...he has never put up more than 700 yards in a single season.  And for the LA Rams, he played 15 games as the #1 WR.  In KC, he even got several games this year with no T. Hill for a bit...still had less than 700 yards in 14 games playing on the best offense in the league. 

 

He isnt worth half what he is paid.  He has the talent to be a top 10 WR without question, but he has the mental and attitude of a guy who has NO INTEREST at all in being "the guy" as he just doesn't seem interested in putting the work in. 

 

So, sorry...Beane made 100% the right call not paying a guy who wasn't worth what he wanted and did NOT have the attitude they wanted on this team to build and change the culture.  Not to mention, Sammy has said MANY times he did NOT want to be here either.  We got BETTER trading him and he got paid for potential he has not remotely come close to reaching.  

 

Bottom line:  Sammy is soft.  He got paid and saw a chance to take a back seat and not have to be "they guy".  He wont get that contract again though, which is probably why he wants to "chill" a year.  His comments before the SB cost him a lot of money.  Going to be hard to see a GM want invest in a guy who thinks he may prefer to just Netflix and Chill for a year.  Not to mention the delusional attempt to claim he is "special" and has immense value because he shows up to practice.  LMAO, that doesnt make you special Sammy, that makes you employed.  

[dave mcbride]

13 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

That’s great, I give him credit for that, but he’s not a number one WR who a team can ride to the playoffs. The dude is a playmaker who disappears more often than not. He has played with heart and effort during the playoffs that he lacks during the regular season. He had 3 TD’s this season, that isn’t a number one. Hill and Kelce are the receivers who got this team to the playoffs, Sammy happens to be the one who stepped up during the playoffs. 

I don't know about that. I don't have the answer for who he really is as a player, but the physical talent is so patently obvious that I keep thinking that one of these years, he's going to bust it open and put up huge numbers. It probably won't happen on KC because Hill is a complete physical freak and basically uncoverable.  That said, Watkins would be the most talented receiver on probably 25 teams in the NFL. He's more talented by far than any receiver in the AFC East, with Devante Parker a distant second. But maybe he never pulls it off. He is still pretty young, though.

Edited February 3, 2020 by dave mcbride

[thebandit27]

3 minutes ago, Jaraxxus said:

For one season.

 

How'd he do the rest of his career here?

 

Until he got hurt and the team mismanaged it, he had nearly identical numbers through 2 seasons to Julio Jones.

 

He was doing just fine at that point.

 

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No, Whaley created our cap situation, Beane and McD did not.  And they were not willing to pay him what the money was going to be if they tagged him, Beane has said this.  The entire reason they did not keep him was $$$, they did not want to spend so much money on him moving forward, so they got a pretty good return for him while they could.  

 

Sammy was no lock to have a good year in 2017, he had been struggling when on the field the year before, and struggled through injuries.  Had he had another mediocre season, no way they get a 2nd round pick for him.  Better WR's have been traded for less, better players at all positions have been traded for less. To get a 2nd round pick for Sammy then was PURELY on potential, not production.  

 

We had a questionable QB and a WR who had been injury prone, and self admits had a big attitude problem while here in Buffalo.  Moving him was absolutely correct if they already knew they were NOT willing to pay him, and Beane said they were not.  

 

And this guy has done nothing since leaving Buffalo...literally nothing.  WR's making fractions what he makes outproduce him every single year both on his own teams and across the NFL.  Good for him for having a strong showing in the SB, but so did guys like Larry Brown, Nick Foles, Joe Flacco etc that had big playoff performances one year and then got GROSSLY over paid fro the rest of their career.

 

And I am a guy who used to defend Sammy.  But its CRYSTAL clear to me now, this guy does not have the motor, drive, commitment, etc to maximize his potential.  He has been a starting WR on the most explosive offenses in the NFL now for 3 years...he has never put up more than 700 yards in a single season.  And for the LA Rams, he played 15 games as the #1 WR.  In KC, he even got several games this year with no T. Hill for a bit...still had less than 700 yards in 14 games playing on the best offense in the league. 

 

He isnt worth half what he is paid.  He has the talent to be a top 10 WR without question, but he has the mental and attitude of a guy who has NO INTEREST at all in being "the guy" as he just doesn't seem interested in putting the work in. 

 

So, sorry...Beane made 100% the right call not paying a guy who wasn't worth what he wanted and did NOT have the attitude they wanted on this team to build and change the culture.  Not to mention, Sammy has said MANY times he did NOT want to be here either.  We got BETTER trading him and he got paid for potential he has not remotely come close to reaching.  

 

Bottom line:  Sammy is soft.  He got paid and saw a chance to take a back seat and not have to be "they guy".  He wont get that contract again though, which is probably why he wants to "chill" a year.  His comments before the SB cost him a lot of money.  Going to be hard to see a GM want invest in a guy who thinks he may prefer to just Netflix and Chill for a year.  Not to mention the delusional attempt to claim he is "special" and has immense value because he shows up to practice.  LMAO, that doesnt make you special Sammy, that makes you employed.  

Beane did not have to deal Sammy because of the cap. He chose to when he could’ve kept him with no issue. He then traded for a less-productive (and now out of the league) WR who cost the same amount of money.

 

Why?

 

Call Sammy what you like, but I’d 100x rather have him for 17-18 than Kelvin Benjamin.

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Until he got hurt and the team mismanaged it, he had nearly identical numbers through 2 seasons to Julio Jones.

 

He was doing just fine at that point.

 

Beane did not have to deal Sammy because of the cap. He chose to when he could’ve kept him with no issue. He then traded for a less-productive (and now out of the league) WR who cost the same amount of money.

 

Why?

 

Call Sammy what you like, but I’d 100x rather have him for 17-18 than Kelvin Benjamin.

 

Ok, lets go over that.  The ONLY reason he traded for KB was ONLY because we were SURPRISINGLY to everyone, including our own FO, in the hunt to snap the playoff drought.  And as much as we all hate KB now, had Beane not made that trade we would have not likely have made the playoffs as I am pretty sure there is no way we win the Snow game without KB.  And this board OVERWHELMINGLY loved the KB trade when it happened.  And we gave up only a third to get him while we got back a 2nd and a good player for Sammy.

 

You are correct, Beane did not have to deal Sammy because of the cap of THAT season.  He dealt Sammy because he was going to lose him for nothing at the END of that season or have to pay him a contract he was NOT willing to pay him, even under a tag.  The focus of the regime, as its proven it should have been, was to clear out bad contracts, bad cap hits, and bad attitudes.  Sammy had a bad attitude, admitted it himself, and was going to have a bad contract to remain here.  And, Sammy has said many times he was not happy here and did NOT want to stay in Buffalo.  

 

More importantly, had Sammy had another lackluster year in 2017, there was no way they would have fetched a 2nd round pick and a pretty solid DB back for him.  That was a major haul by Beane for an injury prone WR who had attitude issues and did not want to be here.  Way better and proven players have fetched far less in trades.  

 

Sorry...I agree with you on a lot of other things, but this one was by far the only choice and the right choice to build our future team.  Once a guy is designated as the wrong fit, get rid of him.  And not only did they do that, they got quite a bit of compensation back.  

 

AND...its working out pretty good for us.  We are a team on the rise with lots of cap space and extra draft assets.  Beane has done a great job getting us into this position.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[thebandit27]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Ok, lets go over that.  The ONLY reason he traded for KB was ONLY because we were SURPRISINGLY to everyone, including our own FO, in the hunt to snap the playoff drought.  And as much as we all hate KB now, had Beane not made that trade we would have not likely have made the playoffs as I am pretty sure there is no way we win the Snow game without KB.  And this board OVERWHELMINGLY loved the KB trade when it happened.  And we gave up only a third to get him while we got back a 2nd and a good player for Sammy.

 

You are correct, Beane did not have to deal Sammy because of the cap of THAT season.  He dealt Sammy because he was going to lose him for nothing at the END of that season or have to pay him a contract he was NOT willing to pay him, even under a tag.  

 

 

He was only going to lose Sammy because they chose not to pick up his 2018 option...that’s what I was saying. He created that situation.

 

And no need to be sorry. We don’t have to agree on it.

?

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

He was only going to lose Sammy because they chose not to pick up his 2018 option...that’s what I was saying. He created that situation.

 

And no need to be sorry. We don’t have to agree on it.

?

 

Yeah, but why do you think that is the case?  Why would they pick up the option on an oft injured player with a bad attitude on a team they are trying to change the culture on?  I mean they didn't pick up the option on Shaq either, but he responded and worked harder.  

[thebandit27]

14 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, but why do you think that is the case?  Why would they pick up the option on an oft injured player with a bad attitude on a team they are trying to change the culture on?  I mean they didn't pick up the option on Shaq either, but he responded and worked harder.  

There’s no reason to think that Sammy hadn’t worked harder after they picked up his option. I mean, he did play 15 games and lead the Rams with 9 TDs in 2017.

 

I guess my point is that unless they truly felt that he was detrimental to their team culture, then there was zero reason to rush to jettison him. And if it was about effort and attitude, then trading for KB was brutally hypocritical in that regard.

[Jauronimo]

23 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

He was only going to lose Sammy because they chose not to pick up his 2018 option...that’s what I was saying. He created that situation.

 

And no need to be sorry. We don’t have to agree on it.

?

Small clarification, Beane was not in the employ of the Bills when Sammy's option was declined.   McDermott was running the show.  Whaley was fired April 30, Sammy's option declined May 2, Beane hired May 9.  Unless Beane and McD were already scheming, when Beane took the job his hand had already been forced with regards to Sammy.

 

At least we got EJ Gaines and his one year of relative health and that 6th round draft pick!!  

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

There’s no reason to think that Sammy hadn’t worked harder after they picked up his option. I mean, he did play 15 games and lead the Rams with 9 TDs in 2017.

 

I guess my point is that unless they truly felt that he was detrimental to their team culture, then there was zero reason to rush to jettison him. And if it was about effort and attitude, then trading for KB was brutally hypocritical in that regard.

What really bothers me about the KB trade was that McD and Beane had the inside scoop on him.  How do you whiff that badly on a guy you scouted, drafted, and coached?!?!

 

At least we picked up JMatt long enough for him not to win a ring in Philly!  He got a baby out of the deal.  He might have been the biggest winner of the Bills 2017 offseason.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Jauronimo

[Trogdor]

20 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yeah, but why do you think that is the case?  Why would they pick up the option on an oft injured player with a bad attitude on a team they are trying to change the culture on?  I mean they didn't pick up the option on Shaq either, but he responded and worked harder.  

And there is still a good chance that they lose Shaq, so what does that accomplish? 

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, Trogdor said:

And there is still a good chance that they lose Shaq, so what does that accomplish? 

They have plenty of money to keep Shaq.  If they don’t, it will be because they don’t feel his value aligns with the contract he will get on the open market.

 

And Shaq has no real trade value prior to this year. He worked hard and was a good teammate and built his value up.

14 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Small clarification, Beane was not in the employ of the Bills when Sammy's option was declined.   McDermott was running the show.  Whaley was fired April 30, Sammy's option declined May 2, Beane hired May 9.  Unless Beane and McD were already scheming, when Beane took the job his hand had already been forced with regards to Sammy.

 

At least we got EJ Gaines and his one year of relative health and that 6th round draft pick!!  

What really bothers me about the KB trade was that McD and Beane had the inside scoop on him.  How do you whiff that badly on a guy you scouted, drafted, and coached?!?!

 

At least we picked up JMatt long enough for him not to win a ring in Philly!  He got a baby out of the deal.  He might have been the biggest winner of the Bills 2017 offseason.

We got a SECOND round pick for Sammy and EJ Gaines, not a 6th.

[Figster]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Sammy Watkins 2019- 52 catches 673 yards 3 TDs

 

John Brown 2019- 72 catches 1060 yards 6 TDs

Brown is a #1 in Buffalo's WR Corp

 

Sammy is a 3 for KC

 

Would you like to compare playofff stats?

[Alphadawg7]

32 minutes ago, Figster said:

Brown is a #1 in Buffalo's WR Corp

 

Sammy is a 3 for KC

 

Would you like to compare playofff stats?

Sammy has not broken 700 yards in 3 seasons on the most explosive offenses in the NFL in each of those 3 seasons, including being a number 1 in a healthy season for the Rams playing 15 games and not even eclipsing 600 yards.  
 

Yet Brandon Cooks in his first season for Rams came in and took over Sammys exact role and more than doubled his production. 
 

I remember defending Sammy in LA.  But sorry, if you can’t get to 700 yards playing for Rams and Chiefs the last 3 years, then you are not an Alpha player and don’t have the drive to be great.  He has way too much talent to have so little production on pass happy elite offenses.  He makes $16m a year in KC...he should be a key contributor, not a role player.  Both Rams and Chiefs invested heavily in him, not to be a decoy, to be a major weapon.  He has not been, period.  
 

He seems content being a role player.  Some guys have the drive, others don’t.  If there was anyone I’ve ever seen that could use some “mamba mentality” it’s Sammy.  Career under achiever.  Even with Hill out for some games this year, he had just one meaningful game, week 1 then disappeared for the rest of regular season.  

 

Good for him for having a strong post season...add him to the other list of guys that had that one good playoff run that exceeded what their norm was in like Foles, Desmond Howard, Larry Brown, Joe Flacco, etc.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Alphadawg7

[billsbackto81]

Sammy would never come here as a FA unless he got a kings ransom. Heck, to me he's not worth the 16 per he's getting from KC. I like Sammy, always have. But if he signed here on a mega deal only to get hurt again this place would explode.