Saxum Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 3 hours ago, GG said: We don't like it as Bills fans, but it doesn't change the reality. No some Bills fans DO like it and use it to claim their point of view is right. If San Antonio asked about a team do you think he would give same answer? No. There has been a policy in league about not allowing new teams into other teams fan drawing area and Toronto would be such a team no matter how much he words it to Toronto press this issue would need to be settled by league. I do think it would be like referees where rules for everyone are not equal.
RyanC883 Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 5 hours ago, GG said: Bills are at or near the bottom of the revenue sharing pie, and the opposing teams get far less from their 40% of gate receipts in Orchard Park than they do in other stadiums. This is not coming from Roger, but from other owners. so our tickets are not expensive enough? I guess playing in LA (working out for the Chargers) in from of 30K people in a soccer stadium is what Goddell and the other owners want. My preference: build a 65K seat dome. It will be full every game. (people avoid buying tickets due to weather fears)
Saxum Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 3 hours ago, Southern Bills Fan said: I travel to all bills away games in the southeast. I’ve also been to new era recently. The amenities and condition of new era is no worse than the superdome in New Orleans or the titans stadium in Nashville or the Jags stadium in Jacksonville. If you consider view from the seats the worst Bills seat view is much better than many stadiums. I have been in Washington and Phoenix with obstructed seating where you cannot even see field and lucky if you can see full screens. 1
GG Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: so our tickets are not expensive enough? I guess playing in LA (working out for the Chargers) in from of 30K people in a soccer stadium is what Goddell and the other owners want. My preference: build a 65K seat dome. It will be full every game. (people avoid buying tickets due to weather fears) Considering Bills have the cheapest ticket prices in the NFL, I’ll let you answer the question. And I don’t think Chargers are playing in a soccer stadium next year
Saxum Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, Lurker said: I can't see a majority of owners ever voting for that. Revenue sharing and the salary cap (level playing field) is what made the NFL so successful. Owners like Rooney and Hunt would never back that, and they still carry a lot of weight with the league. The Bills missing out on future revenue is not the same as being unprofitable or a drag on other teams. It's likely that the Bengals, Bucs, Jags, Browns and even the Packers, Saints, or Titans would "loose out" under the gambling revenue scenario you lay out--they just don't have large population / fanbases either relative to the top metro areas.... They tried an end around before on last contract and league owners went along with except two including "senile" Ralph. A few year years later a new deal is done. I do not think owners who were fooled last time will be fooled again.
GG Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, YoloinOhio said: I think @Deranged Rhino needs to comment on this.
Saxum Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said: It’s time for the state to pony up some serious dough for a new stadium, 50%. End welfare ticket prices, Psl’s, dome, and parking garages. Bring the Bills into the 21st century. Make sure you lead from the front and pay PSL first. Hate for you to be leading from middle picking pocket of those ahead of you.
Reed83HOF Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 6 hours ago, whatdrought said: I sometimes seriously wonder why the NFL owners put up with this clown? He's been absolutely terrible. From officiating, to player discipline, to the various scandals and other such things. How can they take him seriously? 1
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) You got quotes from Mara and the others going back m to 2016. “Buffalo! Build a new stadium!” Not saying that the approval of Pegula buying the team hinged on him guaranteeing he would build one. But with so many Powerful owners wanting it...can’t imagine it wasn’t made clear to Pegula before he was allowed to buy the team...what they expected from him. Now they want theirs. Edited January 30, 2020 by RalphWilson'sNewWar
RochesterRob Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 21 minutes ago, Buffalo619 said: It’s time for the state to pony up some serious dough for a new stadium, 50%. End welfare ticket prices, Psl’s, dome, and parking garages. Bring the Bills into the 21st century. You have not heard any of Governor Andy's more recent press conferences have you? We will be lucky if we can get any money for incidentals such as new roads if the next stadium is in downtown Buffalo. 50 percent of most likely 800 million dollars plus 100 million dollars for support services if going to a new location will not happen with the current crop of politicians in Albany. A better bet would be if Pegula kicks his energy businesses into high gear again and then lo and behold he has a billion dollars burning a hole in his pocket. We can't run with Dallas or NE in terms of PSL's and base seat pricing. Especially in the short term. 1
zonabb Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 5 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: It really is time for a new location and new stadium. I know a lot of you guys don’t want that to happen but it needs too. I would love to see a stadium by the waterfront downtown. Near Key Bank Center. I really hope Pegs can get everyone on the same page. This argument is so off base it's hard to even convince someone who makes it how laughable it is. Mainly because it offers zero data or evidence to support indefensible arguments like "it really is time" and "it needs too." The counter argument, which is why I suspect a renovation is as far as Pegula will go, is that a new stadium means the Pegulas have to incur stadium debt or spend some of their cash when they are currently spending little annually on stadium costs. So their annual expenditures go up. So a new stadium has to return more in annual profit than the prior stadium did. It can't be they make hypothetically $50M now and make the same with a new stadium while carrying debt or spending cash. Why would anyone spend hundreds of millions to make marginally more profit? What we're talking about here is opportunity costs. Are the Pegulas going to make more money spending $500M on a new stadium or investing it somewhere else... fracking, real estate, stock market. And the response from the "they need to do it" proponents is higher ticket sales and more suites will cover the costs and increase profits. OK, this is a team that doesn't sell out now. This is a team in region with stagnant population change since 1970. This is a region without a single fortune 500 company and by the way, the two richest families won't be buying suites or tickets because they are the Pegulas and the Jacobs, who is a sports concessionaire, he's profits from the Bills and Sabres. A large portion of our relatively weak job growth is in low wage jobs. There aren't companies and wealth here banging the door down for better suites and ore expensive seats. I'm a STH and every year it's harder and harder to buy them again and drag myself to the stadium for games when the 70 HDTV, comfy couch and $10 craft SIX PACKS beat the $14 beers, loud obnoxious sound system. and overall stadium experience. This is a league where attendance has declined the last 4 years, down 1.1M people. So yeah, let's use taxpayer money to build a stadium when attendance is declining in a region with lagging economic growth, stagnant population growth, and limited high wealth companies so Jerry Jones can make more money from our investment in a new stadium. Bills are a bottom market team. The league's power owners (greedy) are in large cities, wealthy cities and basically feel like revenue sharing is welfare. So they don't care if Pegula makes less annually because he's incurred debt or spent cash if they're making a few bucks more on our gate. And that's all it comes down to. When that idiot Goodell says the Bills need to be competitive, what does he mean? They are owned by a very wealthy family with zero team or stadium debt. The league has a salary cap. They spend on facilities. So how does a new stadium make them more competitive? It doesn't, it makes the other owners, greedy capitalists hellbent on more and more profit, a few more bucks a year by extracting money from the stadium. Period. I hope they come up with a reno for the stadium, maybe blow out the upper concourses by creating indoor atriums like Green Bay and keep it right there. That's the most cost effective solution and most appropriate for this region and the taxpayers who will be bent over the barrel because Jerry Jones wants more money.
Success Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 Reminds me of when Gekko said he wanted to see Blue Star succeed...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, SirAndrew said: How much can prices really be increased in Buffalo though? I don’t think anyone has the real answer. I’m skeptical they can increase all that much. Why can’t we sell games out in December, and tickets go so cheaply on stubhub? I think the market for selling tickets to eight games in Buffalo is limited, and price increases won’t help. We’ve all heard it’s because the outdoor stadium, but Green Bay sellout every game. I’ve looked at Packer tickets in December on Stubhub, and they aren’t close to being as cheap as ours. Things like that make me skeptical about a significant price increase working. Look at some resale game prices. Over a hundred. STHers paying $35 for some seats. 1
BringBackOrton Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So, could you walk us through it to illustrate the real story? OK, but according to the Forbes list that was shared....we're like #18, average. So what about #19 through 32, what they got to do to compete? You could answer your question with another question. Why does Goodell (the owners mouthpiece) constantly talk about the Bills stadium situation every year instead of teams 19-32?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: You could answer your question with another question. Why does Goodell (the owners mouthpiece) constantly talk about the Bills stadium situation every year instead of teams 19-32? One could, what's your answer to that question?
oldmanfan Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 As far as ticket prices go, when I return to visit what I see is that the restaurant parking lots are full. Folks are downtown for different festivals, etc. As near as I can tell, people have some disposable income for entertainment. So use it on the Bills and pay a little more for tickets. I say again, as long as Kim Pegula is the owner the Bills aren’t going anywhere. Terry as I recall wanted the Sabres, but Kim being a WNYer wanted the Bills. My bet is they build downtown, but I can see another big facelift of The Rich. Apparently the outside evaluation is done so they should be making their decision soon.
BringBackOrton Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: One could, what's your answer to that question? Because they probably have a good financial reason to do so? This is a conglomerate of some of the most successful business owners in the world. Do you think they don’t have numbers and figures that suggest that Buffalo, specifically, is costing them money? What’s the alternative? They just hate the Pegulas? Under that lens, @GG‘s explanation makes total sense. What doesn’t make sense is the other owners pressuring the “19th” highest income team, specifically, year after year, while ignoring the other 13. There is no other logical explanation.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 34 minutes ago, zonabb said: This argument is so off base it's hard to even convince someone who makes it how laughable it is. Mainly because it offers zero data or evidence to support indefensible arguments like "it really is time" and "it needs too." The counter argument, which is why I suspect a renovation is as far as Pegula will go, is that a new stadium means the Pegulas have to incur stadium debt or spend some of their cash when they are currently spending little annually on stadium costs. So their annual expenditures go up. So a new stadium has to return more in annual profit than the prior stadium did. It can't be they make hypothetically $50M now and make the same with a new stadium while carrying debt or spending cash. Why would anyone spend hundreds of millions to make marginally more profit? What we're talking about here is opportunity costs. Are the Pegulas going to make more money spending $500M on a new stadium or investing it somewhere else... fracking, real estate, stock market. And the response from the "they need to do it" proponents is higher ticket sales and more suites will cover the costs and increase profits. OK, this is a team that doesn't sell out now. This is a team in region with stagnant population change since 1970. This is a region without a single fortune 500 company and by the way, the two richest families won't be buying suites or tickets because they are the Pegulas and the Jacobs, who is a sports concessionaire, he's profits from the Bills and Sabres. A large portion of our relatively weak job growth is in low wage jobs. There aren't companies and wealth here banging the door down for better suites and ore expensive seats. I'm a STH and every year it's harder and harder to buy them again and drag myself to the stadium for games when the 70 HDTV, comfy couch and $10 craft SIX PACKS beat the $14 beers, loud obnoxious sound system. and overall stadium experience. This is a league where attendance has declined the last 4 years, down 1.1M people. So yeah, let's use taxpayer money to build a stadium when attendance is declining in a region with lagging economic growth, stagnant population growth, and limited high wealth companies so Jerry Jones can make more money from our investment in a new stadium. Bills are a bottom market team. The league's power owners (greedy) are in large cities, wealthy cities and basically feel like revenue sharing is welfare. So they don't care if Pegula makes less annually because he's incurred debt or spent cash if they're making a few bucks more on our gate. And that's all it comes down to. When that idiot Goodell says the Bills need to be competitive, what does he mean? They are owned by a very wealthy family with zero team or stadium debt. The league has a salary cap. They spend on facilities. So how does a new stadium make them more competitive? It doesn't, it makes the other owners, greedy capitalists hellbent on more and more profit, a few more bucks a year by extracting money from the stadium. Period. I hope they come up with a reno for the stadium, maybe blow out the upper concourses by creating indoor atriums like Green Bay and keep it right there. That's the most cost effective solution and most appropriate for this region and the taxpayers who will be bent over the barrel because Jerry Jones wants more money. Actually they aren’t a bottom market team. Look I get it if you are a little bit older and afraid of how the stadium will impact your taxes. I have encountered a lot of older Buffalo residents like yourself. Buffalo can’t get back to being a great city by living in fear or the past.
SirAndrew Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: Actually they aren’t a bottom market team. Look I get it if you are a little bit older and afraid of how the stadium will impact your taxes. I have encountered a lot of older Buffalo residents like yourself. Buffalo can’t get back to being a great city by living in fear or the past. I’m not really for or against a new stadium. I get your point, but I’m not sure building a new football stadium is indicative of people not doing what it takes to make Buffalo great. Countless studies have shown that new stadiums do little to economically benefit the community. They simply benefit the owners on the backs of the taxpayer. I don’t think this an old cynic vs younger generation issue, it’s just a matter of differing economic beliefs. Edited January 30, 2020 by SirAndrew 1
SirAndrew Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said: Look at some resale game prices. Over a hundred. STHers paying $35 for some seats. Point well taken. It just confuses me why Bills tickets have almost no resale value in the second half of the season. That’s the only thing that gives pause to thinking a substantial increase in ticket prices would work. Resale value of all teams with outdoor stadiums in cold climes decrease at that time, but ours drop significantly compared to others. Sure, resale buyers are willing to spend over a hundred for the early season games, and it’s a good profit for many STH’s selling those seats. My question is how much more are STH’s willing to pay at a new stadium ? Those people paying over a hundred early in the season are purchasing single game tickets. A few times a season might not be a big deal for many, but will the STH’s of Buffalo tolerate a huge price increase? I do understand your point. The team profits most from season ticket holders, not single game seat buyers. If STH’s are willing to pay more, then that’s all that matters to the team. Edited January 30, 2020 by SirAndrew
Recommended Posts