SirAndrew Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: As @Kirby Jackson so eloquently explains it, you can't significantly increase prices in the same stadium, even with a renovation. A new stadium would allow the Bills to establish a new higher price structure. Will it price some fans out? You bet. But our ticket price is the REAL stadium issue Goodell is taking about. And "competitive" in this case means revenues competitive with the rest of the league. How much can prices really be increased in Buffalo though? I don’t think anyone has the real answer. I’m skeptical they can increase all that much. Why can’t we sell games out in December, and tickets go so cheaply on stubhub? I think the market for selling tickets to eight games in Buffalo is limited, and price increases won’t help. We’ve all heard it’s because the outdoor stadium, but Green Bay sellout every game. I’ve looked at Packer tickets in December on Stubhub, and they aren’t close to being as cheap as ours. Things like that make me skeptical about a significant price increase working. 18 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said: The NFL needs Buffalo just as much as Buffalo needs the NFL. There’s only a handful of authentic hardcore fan bases like Buffalo. I hear you, but the NFL just doesn’t care, although they should. They moved a team to a 20K seat soccer stadium just to be in LA. This league jumped the shark long ago. I just don’t understand Goodell’s bullying. Pegula owns the team, what power does Rog have when it comes to what the owner does with his stadium? I’m honestly confused by that, and anyone is welcomed to educate me on it. Edited January 30, 2020 by SirAndrew
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 If Goodell wants to fork lots of money. Well build it or you if not stop talking nonsense idiot,
Saxum Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 5 hours ago, WhoTom said: You know how those close calls never seem to go our way? Expect that trend to continue at an increased rate. "Hey, you got a nice little football team there. Wouldn't want anything to happen to it." - NFL Mafia If it truly was a mafia one of commissioner's pets would be found in his bed with a note "next time just the head". 5 hours ago, BeastMaster said: Facts. If we wanna see the Bills win a superbowl, we have to get a new stadium. Fact: fools gold.
Mr. WEO Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The Bills have to fix their stadium to his standards or what? He'll force us to move to Toronto? He'll stop scheduling home games? He'll hold his face until he turns blue? I mean, what happens if the Bills extend their current lease at New Era with only modest renovations? Education please He's simply pointing out the lease is up and the Bills and NYS need to figure it out. Completely obvious take. Giant non-story. 1 1
Saxum Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 5 hours ago, shane nelson said: We may not like it, but the only way to ensure the Bills are here or the next 50 years is a new stadium or massive renovations to New Ear Field, like those in GB or KC. If a deal is done this year, next year or 5 years it does not matter, it just needs to be done. Yes combined with New Nose boxes and New Throat parking lots. It would ensure otolaryngologists are buying signage there.
Don Otreply Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: How is it going to be funded? Imo, same way every one of them is, private/public dollars, it’s no mystery. All the arguments will be made pro and con, over and over and over, ? and it will not change the outcome, if It’s gonna happen it will, and yes ticket prices will go up, and the fans will pay the increase, all the while iching and moaning about it, because that’s what we do ?, Happens everywhere a new stadium goes up. What’s the alternative? Does the league threaten the Pegulas in some fashion or another? Is there a lawsuit against the league/owners group brought by PSE ? which will involve the Feds, because of the monopoly thing, would get really messy. It would be very exciting to watch it all transpire, don’t ya think? Or it could be much ado about nothing, we shall see. Me, “if” there is a new stadium, I would like to see it in the city of Buffalo. Or does an outer ring get built around and attached to New Era with all the amenities the league demands? I mean what the hell else can we do? are we willing to let the team walk away? because sooner or later the stadium will be replaced, or the team will leave, in a perfect world PSE would foot the bill..., but that ain’t likely ever gonna happen. For them it’s business, for us it’s emotion.... Go Bills!!!
Mr. WEO Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: Looks like the Raiders ROI is about to get a lot worse... You mean by playing in a brand new stadium in the gambling Mecca of the Western Hemisphere that serves only to cater to visitors who spend tons of money? That's a very warm take right there.... 1 2
GG Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: So, could you walk us through it to illustrate the real story? OK, but according to the Forbes list that was shared....we're like #18, average. So what about #19 through 32, what they got to do to compete? Careful with those numbers, the #18 place is under Forbes' definition of operating income. Bills revenue was about $386 mil, which was at the bottom, with Lions & Bengals. Thanks to the CBA deal, NFL franchise revenues are clustered closed together than any other major professional league. But it doesn't mean that it will stay that way forever. It's hard to get indepth into Forbes' numbers because a lot of needed information is missing, so you have to back into their numbers. Let's compare Bills & 49ers. We can use Bills as the NFL floor for revenues because they have the cheapest ticket prices, don't sell PSLs, don't bring in huge parking fees, and local radio contracts are not big. They earned $386m in revenues in 2018, while 49ers took in $492m. Subtracting player costs of about $200m from each team will give the profit after player salaries for each team, and by adding all other expenses in Forbes' analysis gets us to "operating profit" of $82m for Bills and $93m for 49ers. Backing into these numbers would indicate that 49ers spent about $100m more on operations and debt service than Buffalo. Only a portion of that can be attributed to the higher cost of business in Silicon Valley vs WNY, and most of the difference is debt service. Thus, from 49ers standpoint, they are not getting the proper return on their investment to build a new stadium. They may have been ok with the last CBA to keep labor piece, but every franchise has more operating and debt service costs now, and I don't think they will be as generous as before, especially if one franchise isn't keeping up. Look around the league, which franchise is still playing in a stadium that was built in 1973 (or hasn't been significantly renovated). Vikings and Lions are in their third home since Rich Stadium opened. Even if current revenue sharing remains in place, Bills can lose if future streams are not subject to sharing, like gambling. Imagine each team getting a cut on any bet of its games. Do you think Buffalo would be in the top or bottom of that action? What if extreme owners propose eliminating the salary cap, with full support of the NFLPA? Pegulas aren't stupid and know the game they need to play. They just need to find the cheapest and best money to move forward. The only thing the fans know for certain is that ticket prices will be much higher in a few years, in whatever new stadium is built. Hopefully it will be in Buffalo
Saxum Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I think Goodell's chances of flying are overall better than his chances of getting the Toronto taxpayers to pony up for a new state of the art American Football stadium, but perhaps that's just me. And I wouldn't advise Goodell to jump out a window and flap his arms-er wings. Flying is the easy part, landing is the hard part. There were planes before Wright brothers but they were not reusable for they all crashed on landing. 1
GG Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He's simply pointing out the lease is up and the Bills and NYS need to figure it out. Completely obvious take. Giant non-story. I take it you missed this key part of the non-story? On Wednesday, Goodell said the NFL wants the Bills to be in Buffalo and be successful while adding that it is important for the team to have a stadium that is “competitive” with others in the league. He also said that the decision about which route to pursue is something the Bills and the local government have to hammer out in the near future.
Mr. WEO Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, GG said: I take it you missed this key part of the non-story? On Wednesday, Goodell said the NFL wants the Bills to be in Buffalo and be successful while adding that it is important for the team to have a stadium that is “competitive” with others in the league. He also said that the decision about which route to pursue is something the Bills and the local government have to hammer out in the near future. Well, yes. That is the decision that Pegula and the State have to resolve. We've all known that since the team was purchased. The lease is almost up. Pegula has some feasibility BS study going on, etc, etc... What am I missing? Nothing. He said nothing every poster and lurker on this site already understood to be true.
Saxum Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Sundancer said: A sew stadium isn't going to drive up the amount that WNY will pay for a game. That's the limiting calculus here. I don't see Buffalonians forking over 5-10K per seart for PSLs and increasing the ticket prices by 85%. I don't think Roger gives a crap about the new stadium. He wants the higher ticket revenue. He wants Pegulas to get less revenue so others putting pressure on him can get more. A number of other owners are paying debt on their stadiums resulting in less profit. The ones who are putting the most pressure on him are the ones getting the most revenue, including unshared revenue, in NFL.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 31 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: He's simply pointing out the lease is up and the Bills and NYS need to figure it out. Completely obvious take. Giant non-story. Remarks can always be taken out of context, but I kind of agreed with the take "the NFL wants the Bills to be in Buffalo and be successful" reads like a bit of a threat Also to the timeline being "next several months if not sooner"
GG Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said: Well, yes. That is the decision that Pegula and the State have to resolve. We've all known that since the team was purchased. The lease is almost up. Pegula has some feasibility BS study going on, etc, etc... What am I missing? Nothing. He said nothing every poster and lurker on this site already understood to be true. Don't know why I'm responding but.... If it was a non-story, Goodell would have left it alone. By specifically mentioning a competitive stadium means the league won't be happy if Bills simply extend the lease, which is usually the first option for anyone who has an expiring lease and no other place to go to. If it was a non-story, Pegulas wouldn't have needed to issue a subsequent statement about how close they are to an announcement about their stadium plans. 1 1
RiotAct Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The Bills have to fix their stadium to his standards or what? He'll force us to move to Toronto? He'll stop scheduling home games? He'll hold his face until he turns blue? oh no, that would be just awful.
Roger Goodell Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 The NFL is committed to continuing the dialogue with stakeholders in Buffalo and New York State with the goal of ensuring the long term success of the Bills franchise in Buffalo, and ensure the best possible game day experience for our fans in Western New York.
Saxum Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 4 hours ago, bigK14094 said: The downtown location lacks the road infrastructure......massive traffic jams. And, the tailgating culture would have to disappear.....you think all those downtown bar owners will allow that across the street? Loss of the tailgating culture would mean a substantially different ticket customer base than currently exists in WNY. I would predict that such a new stadium would fail in terms of revenue generated...which is the NFL owners dream objective! The WNY market will not support x3 in ticket prices the NFL owners really want...they don't care where they play actually. But, WNY ain't LA or Dallas....... ( OR....maybe a stadium in Hamilton, ONT....draw from Toronto and Buffalo...then there would be zero real NY teams.? ) The local ticket buyers are not so important since there are multiple large scale resellers of tickets, some with packages, selling to opposing fans and these fans pay it for many cannot get tickets to games in their home stadiums.
Mr. WEO Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Remarks can always be taken out of context, but I kind of agreed with the take "the NFL wants the Bills to be in Buffalo and be successful" reads like a bit of a threat Also to the timeline being "next several months if not sooner" He knows it's coming. Pegula has made this obvious. Goodell himself is powerless to threaten an owner. He works for all off them in PR, essentially. That's all he does. 3 minutes ago, GG said: Don't know why I'm responding but.... If it was a non-story, Goodell would have left it alone. By specifically mentioning a competitive stadium means the league won't be happy if Bills simply extend the lease, which is usually the first option for anyone who has an expiring lease and no other place to go to. If it was a non-story, Pegulas wouldn't have needed to issue a subsequent statement about how close they are to an announcement about their stadium plans. He says the same thing all the time. There is nothing new in his comments this week, nor the Pegulas. Nothing. This is just a red meat thread.
RochesterRob Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 3 hours ago, GG said: This is a very good parallel to the Athletic story about Buffalo's attraction for free agents. Let's say the league goes to a prortional model based on ratings and merch sales. Buffalo could easily lose $30 million in annual revenues and run at a loss every year. How long would Pegulas be willing to subsidize that loss, compounded by the potential of a new franchise 100 miles to the north in a market 4 times it's size? We don't like it as Bills fans, but it doesn't change the reality. If it is not happening already Pegula needs to throw his weight around in terms of Southern Ontario including Toronto being Bills territory to the other owners. As far as new revenue sharing formulas goes there is probably very little Pegula can do about it and if the new formula forces the Bills to run at a deep loss then that is that. But I would have to think what hurts the Bills hurts the Bengals, Browns, Packers, Jags (if they do not go to London), and a few other small market franchises. I would hope that would not be Pegula's battle alone and there are not enough relocation candidates if the smaller revenue teams start imploding.
Lurker Posted January 30, 2020 Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, GG said: Even if current revenue sharing remains in place, Bills can lose if future streams are not subject to sharing, like gambling. Imagine each team getting a cut on any bet of its games. Do you think Buffalo would be in the top or bottom of that action? What if extreme owners propose eliminating the salary cap, with full support of the NFLPA? I can't see a majority of owners ever voting for that. Revenue sharing and the salary cap (level playing field) is what made the NFL so successful. Owners like Rooney and Hunt would never back that, and they still carry a lot of weight with the league. The Bills missing out on future revenue is not the same as being unprofitable or a drag on other teams. It's likely that the Bengals, Bucs, Jags, Browns and even the Packers, Saints, or Titans would "loose out" under the gambling revenue scenario you lay out--they just don't have large population / fanbases either relative to the top metro areas.... Edited January 30, 2020 by Lurker
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