Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 10:06 PM, GG said: This is a very good parallel to the Athletic story about Buffalo's attraction for free agents. Let's say the league goes to a prortional model based on ratings and merch sales. Buffalo could easily lose $30 million in annual revenues and run at a loss every year. How long would Pegulas be willing to subsidize that loss, compounded by the potential of a new franchise 100 miles to the north in a market 4 times it's size? We don't like it as Bills fans, but it doesn't change the reality. Expand You aren't answering the question: what exactly are the revenue streams? What is the Bills revenue stream and what are the revenue streams of the other teams? If a big part of it is TV, surely that is affected by when the games are on, and how widely they are broadcast. ow is it decided which games are to be televised where and when?
Steptide Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 I'll sum up his comments in a few words: "the bills need a nicer stadium to generate more money for us" 1
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 8:03 PM, whatdrought said: I sometimes seriously wonder why the NFL owners put up with this clown? He's been absolutely terrible. From officiating, to player discipline, to the various scandals and other such things. How can they take him seriously? Expand $$$ ... that’s the bottom line here
Lurker Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 10:06 PM, GG said: This is a very good parallel to the Athletic story about Buffalo's attraction for free agents. Let's say the league goes to a proportional model based on ratings and merch sales. Buffalo could easily lose $30 million in annual revenues and run at a loss every year. How long would Pegulas be willing to subsidize that loss, compounded by the potential of a new franchise 100 miles to the north in a market 4 times it's size? We don't like it as Bills fans, but it doesn't change the reality. Expand Why would the league ever do that? The Jones' and Kraft's and Kronke's would like that. But getting a majority of the other owners to go along? Most teams aren't in the super city group--they're more like the Bills. They know where the action is--asset appreciation, not cash flow. Can't see it happening... https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/09/04/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2019-cowboys-lead-league-at-55-billion/#56c701252f1b 2018 Operating Income Per Team ($ Millions) Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization 1 Cowboys $420 2 Patriots $240 3 Texans $176 4 Eagles $150 5 Giants $142 6 Ravens $131 7 Saints $126 8 Redskins $120 9 Jets $115 10 Seahawks $106 11 Colts $104 12 Steelers $102 13 Falcons $97 14 Broncos $94 15 49ers $93 16 Cardinals $87 17 Chiefs $83 18 Bills $82 19 Panthers $78 20 Jags $77 21 Lions $73 22 Chargers $72 23 Dolphins $67 24 Bucs $66 25 Vikings $65 26 Bears $62 27 Bengals $58 28 Titans $53 29 Packers $39 30 Browns $32 31 Rams $30 32 Raiders $28 1 3
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 10:10 PM, Southern Bills Fan said: I travel to all bills away games in the southeast. I’ve also been to new era recently. The amenities and condition of new era is no worse than the superdome in New Orleans or the titans stadium in Nashville or the Jags stadium in Jacksonville. Expand Meh. Those other stadiums have concourses that, while not pretty, are 2x to 3x wider and far more accommodating to fans. 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 Hey Rodger. You going to pay for it? Quote Those are things that the group has to settle collectively and to address over the next several months, if not sooner,” Goodell said. Expand On 1/29/2020 at 10:00 PM, Mrbojanglezs said: Don't we see this statement from Goodell every offseason? Expand yes we do
YoloinOhio Posted January 29, 2020 Author Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 10:00 PM, Mrbojanglezs said: Don't we see this statement from Goodell every offseason? Expand Yes, because someone asks him about it every year at the SB
Augie Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) Referring to some short term time frame like that does make me wonder if there is something happening behind the scenes, or is he just trying to rattle our cages. AGAIN. The coming months if not sooner??? What does THAT mean? Why invent urgency? Because you’ll have a tantrum if the Pegulas don’t act? . Edited January 29, 2020 by Augie 1 1
SF Bills Fan Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 Whatever route they go (and it will be resolved soon it seems) Goodell better be ready to hand some money over from the stadium fund. I think teams get like $200 million or so. I know that was a figure thrown around for San Diego's failed bid.
Troll Toll Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 7:47 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: The Bills have to fix their stadium to his standards or what? He'll force us to move to Toronto? He'll stop scheduling home games? He'll hold his face until he turns blue? I mean, what happens if the Bills extend their current lease at New Era with only modest renovations? Education please Expand They’ll probably manage to give us worse officiating
SirAndrew Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) On 1/29/2020 at 10:03 PM, batmanfreek said: Because people who go to games in Buffalo aren’t dropping a lot of money on tickets. I believe they are still one if not the cheapest tickets in the league. Fans won’t pay more for tickets if nothing is improved. on the flip side even with a new stadium those same fans won’t pay higher ticket prices. You may get a different type of fan showing up to the game if ticket prices go up. Expand I think our fan base is amazing, but I’m not convinced that Buffalo has this untapped market for football fans who have yet to attend games at New Era Field. There’s not really a hidden wine and cheese in Buffalo waiting for a football palace to built. There also aren’t Fortune 500 companies waiting to dish out the big bucks. A new stadium would definitely maximize profits, but it would need to a modest stadium, and I think the comish would still be let down. Edited January 29, 2020 by SirAndrew 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 8:14 PM, Doc Brown said: He's their lapdog who takes all the criticism so they don't have to. He's also made them a lot of money since he took over as tv revenue has exploded. Expand ....greedmeisters Jurrah and Boy Danny Snyder's $40 mil/yr puppet......think he'd bite THAT hand?......
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 11:03 PM, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....greedmeisters Jurrah and Boy Danny Snyder's $40 mil/yr puppet......think he'd bite THAT hand?...... Expand Well, no, but they are 2 out of 32 owners. Are the other 29, some of whom apparently have a lower revenue stream than the Bills, let the two of them go their bully way?
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 11:07 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: Well, no, but they are 2 out of 32 owners. Are the other 29, some of whom apparently have a lower revenue stream than the Bills, let the two of them go their bully way? Expand ...great question.....who knows which ones have "sway power" behind closed doors and why......
Don Otreply Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 7:53 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said: id love to see the business argument why this is so necessary. Expand We all know it’s not necessary, it’s all a pile of warm steamy BS. But not to worry, PSE has already determined what they are going to do, and the plan is already in place. and it was part of the overall business plan right from the beginning/purchase of the team, and that implementation is only waiting for the start date, when ever that is. There will be much Nashing of teeth when the new stadium location is announced, it will be in the city of Buffalo, alongside the other large PSE investments already in place, and it will have a roof, change is the only constant. Go Bills!!!
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 11:09 PM, Don Otreply said: We all know it’s not necessary, it’s all a pile of warm steamy BS. But not to worry, PSE has already determined what they are going to do, and the plan is already in place. and it was part of the overall business plan right from the beginning/purchase of the team, and that implementation is only waiting for the start date, when ever that is. There will be much Nashing of teeth when the new stadium location is announced, it will be in the city of Buffalo, alongside the other large PSE investments already in place, and it will have a roof, change is the only constant. Go Bills!!! Expand How is it going to be funded?
MJS Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) On 1/29/2020 at 10:23 PM, Lurker said: Why would the league ever do that? The Jones' and Kraft's and Kronke's would like that. But getting a majority of the other owners to go along? Most teams aren't in the super city group--they're more like the Bills. They know where the action is--asset appreciation, not cash flow. Can't see it happening... https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/09/04/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2019-cowboys-lead-league-at-55-billion/#56c701252f1b 2018 Operating Income Per Team ($ Millions) Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization 1 Cowboys $420 2 Patriots $240 3 Texans $176 4 Eagles $150 5 Giants $142 6 Ravens $131 7 Saints $126 8 Redskins $120 9 Jets $115 10 Seahawks $106 11 Colts $104 12 Steelers $102 13 Falcons $97 14 Broncos $94 15 49ers $93 16 Cardinals $87 17 Chiefs $83 18 Bills $82 19 Panthers $78 20 Jags $77 21 Lions $73 22 Chargers $72 23 Dolphins $67 24 Bucs $66 25 Vikings $65 26 Bears $62 27 Bengals $58 28 Titans $53 29 Packers $39 30 Browns $32 31 Rams $30 32 Raiders $28 Expand Looks like the Bills and their stadium are already competitive. Right in the middle of the pack. I'd start rattling that Packers cage and force them out of their old, decrepit stadium, Goodell. Clearly they aren't pulling their weight. Or how about all those other teams below the Bills with newer stadiums? Edited January 29, 2020 by MJS 1
GG Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 10:11 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said: You aren't answering the question: what exactly are the revenue streams? What is the Bills revenue stream and what are the revenue streams of the other teams? If a big part of it is TV, surely that is affected by when the games are on, and how widely they are broadcast. ow is it decided which games are to be televised where and when? Expand The major revenues are from TV contracts- Direct TV, CBS, NBC, FOX & ESPN, followed by SiriusXM and other national radio - That's about $10 billion for the league as a whole and is shared equally. If this changes, then yeah, Bills will be subject to the scheduling devil, which won't be kind. Then come the new digital revenues, international & merch and licensing. Those are the big ticket items, followed by stadium revenues, which are also split among gate receipts, concessions, parking, suites and PSLs. These are not shared equally. Bills have the lowest ticket prices, which are $30 below the NFL average, meaning visiting teams on average "lose" $3 million in lost revenue opportunity each time they play in Buffalo. Conversely, Bills get a subsidy by playing away games in stadiums with higher ticket prices. Merchandising is another area where Bills are lagging. Right now that revenue is shared. But how many Allen jerseys are sold around the world compared to the stars? The point I'm trying to get across is that the current revenue sharing deals aren't permanent. The high revenue teams in big markets all upgraded their facilities recently, have pretty big debt payments and are subsidizing the smaller market teams. The Forbes article that Lurker links is totally misleading about teams' finances. I've always had a problem with Ozanian's methodology, starting from the basics that he's redefining accounting terms - Operating Income is not EBITDA, and it's certainly not inclusive of debt service costs. That's why you see crazy low "operating income" numbers for Jets, Giants, Bears and Rams. These teams have crazy expenses now because they all upgraded their facilities. I don't think it will sit well for Terry to come in and tell them to go pound sand after they just poured billions of their own money into new stadiums. Like it or not, Buffalo is subsidized by the big NFL teams. All they want is for Pegula to try to keep up. On 1/29/2020 at 10:23 PM, Lurker said: Why would the league ever do that? The Jones' and Kraft's and Kronke's would like that. But getting a majority of the other owners to go along? Most teams aren't in the super city group--they're more like the Bills. They know where the action is--asset appreciation, not cash flow. Can't see it happening... https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/09/04/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2019-cowboys-lead-league-at-55-billion/#56c701252f1b 2018 Operating Income Per Team ($ Millions) Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization 1 Cowboys $420 2 Patriots $240 3 Texans $176 4 Eagles $150 5 Giants $142 6 Ravens $131 7 Saints $126 8 Redskins $120 9 Jets $115 10 Seahawks $106 11 Colts $104 12 Steelers $102 13 Falcons $97 14 Broncos $94 15 49ers $93 16 Cardinals $87 17 Chiefs $83 18 Bills $82 19 Panthers $78 20 Jags $77 21 Lions $73 22 Chargers $72 23 Dolphins $67 24 Bucs $66 25 Vikings $65 26 Bears $62 27 Bengals $58 28 Titans $53 29 Packers $39 30 Browns $32 31 Rams $30 32 Raiders $28 Expand This chart is completely misleading as to the actual operating income and finances. 1
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