Family Dog (Pit Bull) Kills 26-Day-Old Baby

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, KRC said:

 

You don't believe in getting rid of a breed?

 

A (singular) breed.  Yes.

 

No one in the thread recommended getting rid of five breeds.  In fact, you're the only one who mentioned it. 

 

Otherwise, the thread has been nearly full of decent conversation.  Give it a whirl.  It's neat.

[DuckyBoys]

Condolences to the family  That is simply horrible to have happen. I would not own one and we've always had dogs. I don't think they have a off switch.  I dont trust Rotties either.  Only dog I have been bitten on was a neighbors  German Shepherd and I'd have one of those again. She bit me and let go before I even realized what happened  I've seen a pit hang from a tire jaws locked for minutes on end. To be fair that breed attracts dumb asses to begin with.  There is always a "bad dog" breed the wrong people go out and get  I remember in the 70's80's Dobermans and Rotties were in fashion  . 

[Keukasmallies]

4 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

don’t know.  I’m not a racist who penalizes millions for the actions of a few. 
 

20% of all dogs have pit in them.    This is foolish.   

 

Don't you mean "dogsist"?

[LeviF]

Lots of breeds are bred to be killers.  German shepherds are a good example.  Kill some people here and there, but I think the difference a lot of times is the kind of person who buys/adopts a german shepherd. 

 

There are videos out there of police k9 shepherds getting into it maybe more than they should with a bite and maim someone pretty bad.  Difference is that the handler knows that the dog is a killing machine and is prepared with a choke collar or something similar to get the dog away.  A responsible German shepherd owner knows that the dog isn't really a toy or a pet or a "family member" (gag) but an animal bred to kill and treats it accordingly. 

 

Pits are similar.  Bred to be killers (though I do think they have less restraint than, say, a shepherd).  But for some reason we've gotten to a point where people will act like their dog is another kid and NOT simply a ***** dog with dog instincts who you need to treat like a goddamn animal. 

 

Hit your dog, someone's life might depend on it.

[GaryPinC]

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

I would  say that about all dogs. 

All dogs have a fight or flight reaction in the face of fear and/or aggression.  The point is that pit bulls are more predisposed to a disproportionate "fight" response than most other breeds.

 

Some years ago we were adopting a fostered dog whose host was watching a friend's pit bull while we came in to pick ours up.  "Don't worry, nicest dog, so friendly".  I'm wary of pits so I kept a close eye on my high energy 5 year old, who wasn't interacting with the dog but was running around the room making a great deal of noise which the dog noticed uncomfortably. 

 

I asked my son to go play outside to which he threw up his arms screaming nooooo in a half playful half fearful inflection as he ran for the door.

At which point the pit's face and body tone changed to where he was contemplating pursuing and attacking my son.

The host noticed it too and separated the dog to a secure room after saying aghastly, "I've never seen him act like that before".

 

I know there's some fantastic pits out there but ignoring this prevalent character trait or pretending it's akin to every other dog is perhaps the most harmful of all.  

 

I'm not for eliminating the breed but educating potential owners about how to handle training and always being vigilant with these dogs in situations novel to the dog.  Responsible pit owners will be careful not to over correct the animals and be vigilant to potential triggers and how to avoid them.

Nothing worse than a pit owner who won't acknowledge the potential is there no matter how well they think they know their dog.

[plenzmd1]

2 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

All dogs have a fight or flight reaction in the face of fear and/or aggression.  The point is that pit bulls are more predisposed to a disproportionate "fight" response than most other breeds.

 

Some years ago we were adopting a fostered dog whose host was watching a friend's pit bull while we came in to pick ours up.  "Don't worry, nicest dog, so friendly".  I'm wary of pits so I kept a close eye on my high energy 5 year old, who wasn't interacting with the dog but was running around the room making a great deal of noise which the dog noticed uncomfortably. 

 

I asked my son to go play outside to which he threw up his arms screaming nooooo in a half playful half fearful inflection as he ran for the door.

At which point the pit's face and body tone changed to where he was contemplating pursuing and attacking my son.

The host noticed it too and separated the dog to a secure room after saying aghastly, "I've never seen him act like that before".

 

I know there's some fantastic pits out there but ignoring this prevalent character trait or pretending it's akin to every other dog is perhaps the most harmful of all.  

 

I'm not for eliminating the breed but educating potential owners about how to handle training and always being vigilant with these dogs in situations novel to the dog.  Responsible pit owners will be careful not to over correct the animals and be vigilant to potential triggers and how to avoid them.

Nothing worse than a pit owner who won't acknowledge the potential is there no matter how well they think they know their dog.

Nice post, ans as an owner of dogs since 7 years old, i am mindful of all my dogs behaviors , pit or no pit. 90% of pit owners are "responsible" as you say, but its the 10% that have them for status or other reasons that tend to cause all the problems. I know my bit as well as i have ever known any of my dogs...and i did have a lab mix that surprised me once by nipping at a kid..shocked the hell out of me, so it happens with all dogs 

 

I must say cockers and Brittney spaniels give me the willies..dont like those dogs at all.. all been so freaking inbred they all seem batchit crazy

[GaryPinC]

15 minutes ago, LeviF91 said:

 

Hit your dog, someone's life might depend on it.

I was with everything else you said until this.  There are many levels to correcting your dog, immediacy, consistency, body language, and tone of voice play a huge role depending on the sensitivity of the animal.  Sharp pulls of the ear or collar, ie discomfort is quite effective especially when paired with the rest.  Hitting, if at all, should be a last resort but only briefly and controlled.

Indiscriminate hitting of a pit bull by humans the animal is most attached to is a recipe for disaster, and probably a contributing factor to the vicious attacks we read about. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

What drives me nuts is that Pitt Bulls are now a thing with these hipsters.
 

 There’s a hiking trail we used to go on with the kids, but now stop because these hipsters walk around With their unleashed pit bulls! I once encountered one and picked up my kids in my arms and ran off the trail— the owner was offended. 

[Gugny]

21 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I must say cockers and Brittney spaniels give me the willies..dont like those dogs at all.. all been so freaking inbred they all seem batchit crazy

 

Another great and relevant point … overbreeding.

[plenzmd1]

19 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

What drives me nuts is that Pitt Bulls are now a thing with these hipsters.
 

 There’s a hiking trail we used to go on with the kids, but now stop because these hipsters walk around With their unleashed pit bulls! I once encountered one and picked up my kids in my arms and ran off the trail— the owner was offended. 

well, i would think most people walking on a trail with an unleashed dog of any kind are pretty dang close to 100% their dog aint gunna hurt anyone. When we are in DC, its funny to see the reactions to our pitty mix at the dog park. Been in a few conversations about how we should not have him there, then they see him runnin around with all the dogs, being submissive to EVERY dog there..and still some people cant get past his looks

 

..all the while its my chow lab mix i cant let off the leash and everyone would be  just fine with him till he took issue with another dominant male dog....(btw, i do not take my lab mix to the dog park as that would be irresponsible) ,

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by plenzmd1

[Gugny]

10 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

(btw, i do not take my lab mix to the dog park as that would be irresponsible) ,

 

 

As opposed to responsible, like throwing chicken wings into a vat of hot oil after 8 hours of drinking? 

 

 

[Jauronimo]

2 hours ago, Keukasmallies said:

 

Don't you mean "dogsist"?

Breedist.

[muppy]

Very interesting discussion here. I own a pitbull and it was because the rescue told me she was a "Boston terrier mix".   At the time I trusted that information and brought her home. I wouldnt have taken her if I knew she was a pitbull  I was fearful and nontrusting of the breed due to all Id read of attacks etc. So when it became obvious she was a pittie I immediately went to a trainer because she was by then a member of the family and my bias wasn't enough rationale for me to get rid of her at that point. She did great with obedience and got along well with other dogs. Then I made the huge mistake of taking her to a dog park. Long story short she was bullied by a dog that made her fearful and since has been animal aggressive. She wasn't until then. I then discovered that she was very prey driven and loved chasing birds, rabbits etc. She became a watchdog and "resource guarded" her home and family. Being a Responsible pet owner has made me need to be diligent as a pittie owner and learn as much as I could about the breed. I even began to volunteer for a pitbull rescue where I have met some of the most silly goofball sweet submissive loyal Loving and empathetic to people dogs Ive ever been around. Owning she has been the best experience because I was "forced" by my desire to be a good pittie owner to become "the pack leader" to give her rules boundaries and limitations as well as love to be the best dog she could be. I think at times common sense is not too common. For example if ANY dog hasn't been around kids before you MUST be diligent and keep them separated until you know   how they will react to kids. If their prey drive is high being around small kids is BAD no matter which breed it is. To me what it boils down to is the owner MUST meet the dogs needs and do so responsibly . Those needs being food, shelter, training, medically and much like kids they need rules boundaries and structure NO MATTER THE BREED. I live in California where pitbulls are a VERY popular breed and you see them everywhere you go. And there are a lot of families with kids whom own pitbulls also. I think the ASPCA article above was excellent and it is necessary to vett the specific dog you bring into your home based on your lifestyle and wether they would fit within it .The rescue I work with works with the families and homechecks as well as evaluates if they think its a good match. If they dont think it is they wont do the adoption period. anyway just a few thoughts on the subject. I LOVE the breed now.

[muppy]

I forgot to mention that of course I feel terrible when a dog, any dog, attacks a person and causes injury or death. I just happen to think that often the dog in question has indeed shown a temperament that would give at least some clue as to wether or not it would be prone to going after a person. I dont think it is as random as people think it is. I have learned a lot about the breed specifically,  and being a responsible owner is as much about you yourself knowing dog psychology and behavior traits of whichever dog you choose. 

 

I'm an advocate for the breed I hate to read them characterized as killers....clearly some have but in my opinion the breed shouldn't be thrown out with the bathwater due to a stereotype that a few dogs have created due to whatever the circumstances were which are never really explored. Thats all Im saying.   

[plenzmd1]

27 minutes ago, Margarita said:

 I think the ASPCA article above was excellent and it is necessary to vett the specific dog you bring into your home based on your lifestyle and wether they would fit within it .The rescue I work with works with the families and homechecks as well as evaluates if they think its a good match. If they dont think it is they wont do the adoption period. anyway just a few thoughts on the subject. I LOVE the breed now.

You hit on a pet peeeve of my mine...and will get to it in a second. Pits are high energy dogs, and need good invigorating exercise everyday! My stupid pittie ran to hard and had to have  ACL surgery done..but they need their exercise! When they dont get it, like any dog that likes to work and is active,  it can   and often will result in misbehavior!

 

Now for my pet peeve..shelters, rescues etc , all of em, ask about fenced in yards for larger dogs( 30lbs plus lets say). They say its important for the critter get it's exercise. I say horse manure! Almost every freaking dog owner that has a fenced in backyard lets the dog in the backyard..with no walks, no runs, no dog parks..nothing! 

 

Contrast that with folks in the city that have ZERO choice but to walk/run their dogs, and the fitness level and overall demeanor is noticable. Fences are the worst thing that have ever happened to dogs...stop requiring them!!!!!

[Steptide]

I didn't read all the replies so I apologize if someone already said somethjng similar, but here goes. 

 

Pitbulls ARE good dogs and even better family dogs. Here is the problem with the breed. For starters, it's all too common any time a pitbull injures or kills a person, it makes the news. Dog bites/attacks happen constantly, but the only ones you here about are Pitbulls because they're a controversial breed. I actually used to train dogs part time years and years ago, and I can tell you when it comes to aggression in dogs, it comes in all breeds and sizes. One of the classes I was involved with was aggressive dogs , and I promise you every breed you can think of was in these classes 

 

Second issue with Pitbulls is they are way over bred. Go to any shelter in your area and you will see they are filled with Pitbulls or pit bull type dogs. Idiot owners think they can breed their Pitbulls and sell them. This leads to bad breading and bad temperaments and what you end up with is situations like the one posted here. I promise you if golden retrievers were as over run and over bred as Pitbulls, you'd have similar cases as this one. 

 

Lastly, anytime you own a dog, especially large breeds, there's a certain level of responsibility you need to take, especially with children. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Steptide

[muppy]

40 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

You hit on a pet peeeve of my mine...and will get to it in a second. Pits are high energy dogs, and need good invigorating exercise everyday! My stupid pittie ran to hard and had to have  ACL surgery done..but they need their exercise! When they dont get it, like any dog that likes to work and is active,  it can   and often will result in misbehavior!

 

Now for my pet peeve..shelters, rescues etc , all of em, ask about fenced in yards for larger dogs( 30lbs plus lets say). They say its important for the critter get it's exercise. I say horse manure! Almost every freaking dog owner that has a fenced in backyard lets the dog in the backyard..with no walks, no runs, no dog parks..nothing! 

 

Contrast that with folks in the city that have ZERO choice but to walk/run their dogs, and the fitness level and overall demeanor is noticable. Fences are the worst thing that have ever happened to dogs...stop requiring them!!!!!

Interesting point. I don’t think fences are the only thing home checks are looking at though. The rescue I work with wants to see the physical home the dog wants to be adopted into in an attempt to determine the dog is going into a HOME and not simply put into a fenced backyard to wallow alone and neglected. See what I mean? The conversations that happen between an adoptee and the rescue can be very telling. They won’t adopt to someone they determine  might not be willing to provide the exercise and stimulation any specific dog needs. Some of the more athletic dogs need a similar active owner or on the other side a couch potato or senior dog with an appropriate owner . I agree a fenced yard shouldn’t be a deal breaker. But being able to play fetch and have the dog outside with a barrier between they and outsiders is a good thing 

4 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I didn't read all the replies so I apologize if someone already said somethjng similar, but here goes. 

 

Pitbulls ARE good dogs and even better family dogs. Here is the problem with the breed. For starters, it's all too common any time a pitbull injures or kills a person, it makes the news. Dog bites/attacks happen constantly, but the only ones you here about are Pitbulls because they're a controversial breed. I actually used to train dogs part time years and years ago, and I can tell you when it comes to aggression in dogs, it comes in all breeds and sizes. One of the classes I was involved with was aggressive dogs , and I promise you every breed you can think of was in these classes 

 

Second issue with Pitbulls is they are way over bred. Go to any shelter in your area and you will see they are filled with Pitbulls or pit bull type dogs. Idiot owners think they can breed their Pitbulls and sell them. This leads to bad breading and bad temperaments and what you end up with is situations like the one posted here. I promise you if golden retrievers were as over run and over bred as Pitbulls, you'd have similar cases as this one. 

 

Lastly, anytime you own a dog, especially large breeds, there's a certain level of responsibility you need to take, especially with children. 

I covered a lot of what you said except for the breeding which is a great point. 

As far as media headlines if it is a pit bull they always title that but with any other breed it hardly ever is mentioned in the title absolutely right. 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said:

You hit on a pet peeeve of my mine...and will get to it in a second. Pits are high energy dogs, and need good invigorating exercise everyday! My stupid pittie ran to hard and had to have  ACL surgery done..but they need their exercise! When they dont get it, like any dog that likes to work and is active,  it can   and often will result in misbehavior!

 

Now for my pet peeve..shelters, rescues etc , all of em, ask about fenced in yards for larger dogs( 30lbs plus lets say). They say its important for the critter get it's exercise. I say horse manure! Almost every freaking dog owner that has a fenced in backyard lets the dog in the backyard..with no walks, no runs, no dog parks..nothing! 

 

Contrast that with folks in the city that have ZERO choice but to walk/run their dogs, and the fitness level and overall demeanor is noticable. Fences are the worst thing that have ever happened to dogs...stop requiring them!!!!!

 

I’m with you on the fences. Sure, it’s nice to have sometimes, but I walk our dog at least once daily, unless it’s 35 and raining, I have limits. For that matter, sometimes I try to take her and she just looks at me like “are you out of your mind? Take yourself for a walk!” She’s no dummy, so I let her make the call sometimes. 

 

But we do have neighbors who just have a fenced yard (invisible or otherwise) who NEVER walk the dog. They should not be allowed to own a dog, IMO. 

[GaryPinC]

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

I must say cockers and Brittney spaniels give me the willies..dont like those dogs at all.. all been so freaking inbred they all seem batchit crazy

Haha, yah Cockers really got overbred.  You sure it is Britts (medium brown and white) or is it actually Springer Spaniels (black and white)?  Britts are rare outside of the bird hunting community but I have come across Springers and some have personality problems.

 

All I would hope for you as a pit owner is that you acknowledge pits were bred for aggression and while you're rightly comfortable with your dog you still maintain some vigilence for the dog encountering a novel situation and if its body language changes.  It's breeding means it's not like most dogs. 

 

For example, if I ever own a German Shepherd or Shepherd mix I would always be vigilant with it around children, no matter how exemplary its past behavior.

 

Been around too many Shepherds and even the nicest ones can get aggressive towards kids, especially in isolated instances.

[ExiledInIllinois]

It's in Indiana.  Coastal Elite pittys are so much more well behaved!  Damn Red States... Totally lack decorum!