BigBuff423 Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said: Rosen's future is not in the NFL. Miami will dump him pretty soon. They brought him in on a flyer with minimum risk since in their trade down they got another 2nd round pick. Then in a rebuild year, they thought so little of him that they decided pretty quickly that he was not their QB of the future after seeing him play in a few games and instead of trying to develop him, they benched him in favor of the guy who gave them the best chance of winning a few games. Since the coach had a free pass, he didn't have to win any games to keep his job. If he saw anything that gave him hope of developing Rosen, he would have played him rather than sat him. Instead he went with Fitz & I guarantee Miami takes a QB in the 1st round. That leaves Rosen out the door since there's no way they're keeping the rookie, a veteran (either Fitz or Rivers) & Rosen. I wouldn't be shocked that as soon as Miami drafts the rookie QB, Rosen is either traded for a late round pick, or if there are no takers, released outright before camp. I hear your point, but it wasn't about what I think Miami "would" do, but my original post was what - IMHO - is best to do. Bring Rivers in, give Rosen another year and put players and good coaches around him, then let him fly in 2021 and give him the whole year. Mayfield had loads of talent around him more than Rosen, and Josh Allen was just in a better situation because he's had better coaches and mentors around him, the way Rosen needed them. Darnold was a turnover machine and it got much better after the second half of his second year and nobody has ever doubted Darnold's talent - just if his mechanics will get in the way of production. Time will tell. 11 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said: So Rosen does nothing well? He has potential. Cool. Its year 3 Baker Mayfield Joined a team that had ONE win in two years and Hue Jackson was the coach. His HC and OC were fired midseason Josh Allen had a terrible offensive line, no WRs of note and a failing running game Sam Darnold was playing for a lame duck coach and had no offensive line All three of those players were able to elevate those around them and make plays. With Rosen, apparently he needs everything to be perfect for him to have any chance. This may be a shock to you, but no situation in the NFL is perfect. People love to just assume its coaching or scheme as to why a guy isnt performing. He was a top ten pick. The most pro-ready QB. The best tape, the right coaching and perfect mechanics and he has shown NOTHING in two years. At some point, it has to be about Rosen not being good enough. It is such a common tale, I'm not sure why people can't accept it If the Bills brought Rosen here and said, "we are going to make him our QB" How would you feel? Me? I'd cancel my season tickets See post above - but to me - it's too early to pull the plug on Rosen when you (I) consider the situations he was in and the lack of support he's had. JMO.
Captain Hindsight Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said: I hear your point, but it wasn't about what I think Miami "would" do, but my original post was what - IMHO - is best to do. Bring Rivers in, give Rosen another year and put players and good coaches around him, then let him fly in 2021 and give him the whole year. Mayfield had loads of talent around him more than Rosen, and Josh Allen was just in a better situation because he's had better coaches and mentors around him, the way Rosen needed them. Darnold was a turnover machine and it got much better after the second half of his second year and nobody has ever doubted Darnold's talent - just if his mechanics will get in the way of production. Time will tell. See post above - but to me - it's too early to pull the plug on Rosen when you (I) consider the situations he was in and the lack of support he's had. JMO. He's Blaine Gabbert repackaged. Gabbert played a long time and made a ton of $. Rosen will coast on that potential for plenty of time
mannc Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 30 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: I disagree. He's a borderline HOFer while Eli isn't. His stats are superior. Eli relied heavily on those defenses to win those SB's. Being in the NFC helped not having to go through Brady, P. Manning, and Roethlisberger every year. Rivers - 64.7%, 59,271 yards, 397 TD's, 198 INT's, 95.1 passer rating, 123-101 regular season record. 5-6 in the playoffs with a 84.2 passer rating Eli- 60.3%, 57,023 yards, 366 TD's, 244 INT's, 84.1 passer rating, 117-117 regular season record. 8-4 in the playoffs with a 87.4 passer rating. 2 SB's, 2 SB MVP's You’re mistaking me for someone who thinks Eli belongs in the HoF...
The Frankish Reich Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said: Which is why I started out saying he's been put in two terrible situations. There are a number of QBs who start slow, get a different head coach / offensive coordinator, and start to put things together. I do think Rosen "could" be an NFL QB, a decent to good one at that. But he needs to have the proper support from coaches, to scheme, to players - like nearly all good QBs. He's been in two situations that could NOT have been worse during those first two seasons (except maybe Cincy come to think of it). It is far too soon, IMHO, to throw in the towel on Rosen....he needs a fresh set of eyes with a solid supporting cast and if Rivers could / can hold the unit down for a year while Rosen has another year to learn the same Offense, Miami can bring in more support on the Offensive Line and Rivers can tutor Rosen a bit, you could have a very good starting QB. Rosen has all of the tools and mental acumen needed - does he have the work ethic and dedication to the game? That's the one X-factor in my mind he hasn't answered and really can't answer until he is given an entire season to start and play. These are all fair points. Rosen really hasn’t been put in any position to succeed, so it’s not time to give up on him. I always find it amusing: mention how the Bills could’ve drafted Mahomes and a crowd of people will say “but he wouldn’t have succeeded to this extent with Buffalo’s coaches/offensive weapons/etc.” and maybe that’s true. If it is true, then putting Rosen into the worst offensive situation in the NFL in 2018 and the dumpster fire that was the first half of the Dolphins 2019 tank job is also relevant in assessing his performance, right? 1
K-9 Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 Regarding Rivers and the HOF, the election committees over time have always valued longevity combined with statistics. Always. As a result, rivers will make the HOF. It’s just a question of when. While I personally don’t think he will make it in his first year of eligibility, I am not underestimating the power of lobbying that some voters may have on the other electors, either.
mannc Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, K-9 said: Regarding Rivers and the HOF, the election committees over time have always valued longevity combined with statistics. Always. As a result, rivers will make the HOF. It’s just a question of when. While I personally don’t think he will make it in his first year of eligibility, I am not underestimating the power of lobbying that some voters may have on the other electors, either. I don't disagree that Rivers will probably get in; the question is, should he get in? This concept has been eroded over the years, but for me, the minimum HoF requirement should be "Was this guy one of the 2 or 3 best players in the league at his position for a significant stretch of time (meaning more than just one season)?" I don't see how Rivers passes this test. I'm not going to go through all the numbers, but I doubt there was more than one season in which he was one of the two or three QBs in the league. The top QBs of his era were Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and P. Manning. Rivers is somewhere in the next tier, along with Matt Ryan, Eli and maybe Matt Stafford--good--often very good--but not great. Edited January 28, 2020 by mannc
GreggTX Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 I wish he was coming to the Bills. Add a #1 WR, RT, G and a backup RB if Wade doesn't pan out and we could be headed back to the SB. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I just don’t see him out there. They stink. They have no fans. I see no reason to go from 38 year-old QB to a 43 year-old QB. If the Chargers are moving on from Rivers they should do it with a young guy. The 2 young guys in that range have different concerns but neither will be starting week 1 IMO. Dalton or Tyrod makes the most sense short-term to me. Have a bridge guy for a few weeks to year needed and then turn it over to the young guy. That doesn’t feel like a Brady situation to me. LA loves celebrities. And honestly, the Chargers might be more talented than the Pats right now on offense. and I respect Rivers but he was part of the problem. The Chargers were a very predictable team. Fall behind or start the season bad, come back in a game or get back in playoff contention, Rivers throws an int to end the game/ season. Edited January 28, 2020 by C.Biscuit97 1
Boca BIlls Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 On 1/27/2020 at 3:29 PM, YoloinOhio said: It looks like the thread about him moving his family from SD to Florida got locked or i would have tacked this on there, as there was discussion in that thread about him playing elsewhere next year. I don’t think he will want to retire. I believe they will take a QB at 6 (or try to move up higher if needed to take one) which helps push the non QBs down They finally got smart and realized Philip would never do it for them.
turftoe Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 Some team is going to sign Mariota in free agency. I just hope it's not the Patriots. I want them to spend a #1 pick on a project QB. Could see Mariota landing with the Chargers or maybe Colts. In the right setting, he could be a comeback story. Frank Reich did wonders with Nick Foles.
Foxx Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 On 1/27/2020 at 3:33 PM, plenzmd1 said: Man, this just seems so cold..not that they are moving on, just the way it is coming out. Shades of February 99 i guess....cmon teams, yall can do better than this it has already been mentioned im sure but on the off chance it has not... the parting was probably mutual. i think we know Rivers was not big on moving nor playing in LA. in fact, i might go so far to venture that it was probably more Philip than the Chargers.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, turftoe said: Some team is going to sign Mariota in free agency. I just hope it's not the Patriots. I want them to spend a #1 pick on a project QB. Could see Mariota landing with the Chargers or maybe Colts. In the right setting, he could be a comeback story. Frank Reich did wonders with Nick Foles. 5 minutes ago, turftoe said: Some team is going to sign Mariota in free agency. I just hope it's not the Patriots. I want them to spend a #1 pick on a project QB. Could see Mariota landing with the Chargers or maybe Colts. In the right setting, he could be a comeback story. Frank Reich did wonders with Nick Foles. ...he already said, "I WILL be a starter somewhere"......agree or disagree?....
wagon127 Posted January 28, 2020 Posted January 28, 2020 23 hours ago, Saint Doug said: Absolutely not. Every great QB plays for about 2 years past their true retirement age. During this time, they become a huge liability for their team. For what we’ve been through for the last 2 decades, we deserve every minute of that glorious downfall. I don’t want him out of the AFC East. Its kind of like having that dream job when you were in high school. And then reality hits in your mid 20s. Since 2011, i was hoping we would start beating him regularly and we havent. Even this past year we couldnt beat him. Go to the chargers, we will still get to play against him once this year, but dont need to worry about him in our division anymore. Listen, if he stays, fine. But we cant win the division until decemeber, so give me something to celebrate in March.
Saxum Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 15 hours ago, JetsFan20 said: They traded a 24 year old stud left tackle to get those draft picks. Folks act like it was a stroke of genius, but I’m not sure about that. What 6-7 years of elite left tackle play worth to you? To me that’s the type of guy you want to hold onto-especially when drafting a young injury riddled QB. A stud who was moved to guard until their tackle was injured.
Doc Brown Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 7 hours ago, mannc said: You’re mistaking me for someone who thinks Eli belongs in the HoF... My mistake. You made it sound as if Eli gets in and then Rivers that's the last straw.
Doc Brown Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Albany,n.y. said: Every time I see a post quoting QB stats I cringe. Eli Manning was one of the best big game clutch players of his generation. Rivers, on the other hand choked away many opportunities. Eli had a lot of mediocre games, but with the game on the line in games that mattered, he was money. The only time I'd use money and Rivers in the same sentence would be : Rivers made a lot of money during his NFL career. Stats have to be considered for the HOF. Flacco had a lot of mediocre games and then went on a great run to win SB MVP. Would you consider him a HOF'er if he repeated the same performance three years later? Eli has similar stats (QB rating is identical) but just played longer. Edited January 29, 2020 by Doc Brown
The Frankish Reich Posted January 29, 2020 Posted January 29, 2020 16 hours ago, mannc said: I don't disagree that Rivers will probably get in; the question is, should he get in? This concept has been eroded over the years, but for me, the minimum HoF requirement should be "Was this guy one of the 2 or 3 best players in the league at his position for a significant stretch of time (meaning more than just one season)?" I don't see how Rivers passes this test. I'm not going to go through all the numbers, but I doubt there was more than one season in which he was one of the two or three QBs in the league. The top QBs of his era were Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, and P. Manning. Rivers is somewhere in the next tier, along with Matt Ryan, Eli and maybe Matt Stafford--good--often very good--but not great. Agreed. But sometimes longevity wins. In baseball, that gets you guys like Harold Baines in the Hall of Fame. And by the way, I think that may be a motivation for Rivers to keep playing -- a couple more years, another 60 TD passes, he's probably in after a wait
Reed83HOF Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) Edited February 2, 2020 by Hapless Bills Fan not sure we need a new thread for every agent tweet
Reed83HOF Posted February 2, 2020 Posted February 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: @Hapless Bills Fan This is the Pats specifically looking at another QB, it just happens to be Rivers. i don't see this as the same as chagers moving on from Rivers, where it is more Pats looki8ng at another QB 1
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