bobobonators Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 Who the heck cares. NFL MVP this season. Hes laughing at you. 3
Cripple Creek Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 10 hours ago, ChevyVanMiller said: Man, that's brutal. It will be interesting to see next year when teams follow the Buffalo/Tennessee model and stack the box and make him try to beat you with throws outside. Don't you think that every DC said the same thing every week in getting ready for Baltimore? Talent comes into play. 1
Billl Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 9 hours ago, MJS said: Josh Allen has a big arm and can make all the throws. Lamar Jackson can't. So Josh Allen’s new nickname should be Sex Panther. 58.8% of the time he make the throw every time. 2
Process Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 Not saying he won't be a good QB, but this year will without a doubt end up being the best year of his career.
Billl Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: No one. Some have questioned if Mahomes would be "as good" if he had been plopped in with the Bills offense last season instead of handed the keys to an established offensive system loaded with talent on OL and at skill positions that was #5 in the league the previous year. In this polarized world, that is seen as saying "Mahomes isn't good", because saying he wouldn't have had the same MVP season and looked all-world here with our surrounding cast is Just That Same Thing. Mahomes’s first ever game was on the road against the Broncos. He went 22/35 for 284 yards in 3 quarters. That’s more than any game in Allen’s career. Here are all the players who caught passes. Albert Wilson Demetrius Harris Demarcus Robinson Anthony Sherman Jehu Chesson Akeem Hunt (not to be confused with Kareem Hunt) He wouldn’t have thrown 50 TDs, but he would have still had an MVP caliber season with the Bills receivers. Edited January 25, 2020 by Billl 1
Bermuda Triangle Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said: And the opposite is the same here too. Only be critical of all other QBs, Josh a Cannot be criticized cause he is a Golden God of QBs and it's everyone else fault...... Yeah, no. Find a single example of this. Did you find it odd that Allen was even brought up in a thread about Jackson?
Teddy KGB Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 1 hour ago, bobobonators said: Who the heck cares. NFL MVP this season. Hes laughing at you. Yet he can’t win a playoff game. He’s probably crying not laughing. M V P !!!!!
Reed83HOF Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 11 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Yet, one was the MVP after winning a Heisman. I had them ranked the same coming out in the draft. But some of you love to pounce on Lamar and then blame everyone else but Allen for his shortcomings. Of course this is the same board that questions how good Mahomes is too. 1
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 6 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....could very well be the next RG II 5/8 or Kaep, both who hit the limelight hard, but were eventually figured out by opposing DC's....think the Watson kid has skill set to become better balanced.....Wilson is just....Wilson......guy has honed his skills and craft exponentially...... Yep. So tired of narrative that kneeling knocked Kaep out of the game. no.... he was kneeling as the back up to Blaine Gabbert!!! Digest THAT! but... Lamar is his own man. Let’s see what he does during the off season to get better 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Mahomes could have had a MUCH less productive 2018 and STILL looked "all-world"............so don't pat yourself on the back too much for being a voice of reason. It's a league where there is a guy in the NFC throwing at a 74% completion rate over the last 3 years and still Mahomes is in a class by himself in terms of impact on a team and ability to bring a team back from a deficit etc.. For all the talk about what Mahomes wouldn't have done here............there is only one QB in the NFL who could have taken that flawed Chiefs team to a Super Bowl. I guess this is an improvement for you on responding to disagreement (with reasoning laid out and data to back it) "It was an absurd take which you are just advancing out of spite", to which I give props as one of the most peculiar and egocentric responses I've seen on this board. We cherish our small steps of progress. Mahomes is a great QB. He also, as has been pointed out, came into an ideal development situation with an offensive system that was clicking along well enough to notch 10,11,12 wins and see playoffs every year. He got to sit and learn for a season. He got a proven top offensive mind as his coach and a OL, quality WR and TE who all knew the system. Given what Reid did with Alex Smith, I personally wouldn't want to bet that Mahomes is the only QB in the NFL that could take that team to the Superbowl. I happen to think that if Mahomes had started his rookie year, given everything that was said about his footwork etc. - behind a crap OL with no run game and throwing to crap WR, he would not have looked "all world". Since no one gets a "do over" on that, we'll have to stop at "we disagree". I pat myself on the back quite regularly. My physical therapist recommends it as a means to rehab my shoulder. She'd like me to do it more than I do. 2 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 14 hours ago, CLTbills said: He was never an accurate passer. His legs allowed him to beat you with his arm, but it wasn't through pin-point, precision throws. It was moving the pocket and extending plays This, IMO is a bad take on Jackson. He had a set of throws he could stand in the pocket and make accurately and consistently in college, and he improved a lot this off season - more than Allen did by some metrics. He has a set of throws he couldn't make in college and still can't make. He may well improve on them this off season. I don't see why he can't - we have seen both him and Allen improve their passing abilities, and I hope for more from Allen. 1
JoPoy88 Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 Fun thread to read. I suppose it’s reflexive for some of you to cap on guys like Jackson and Mahomes so you feel better about Allen. Fine by me, everyone has their own coping mechanisms. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Billl said: Mahomes’s first ever game was on the road against the Broncos. He went 22/35 for 284 yards in 3 quarters. That’s more than any game in Allen’s career. Here are all the players who caught passes. Albert Wilson Demetrius Harris Demarcus Robinson Anthony Sherman Jehu Chesson Akeem Hunt (not to be confused with Kareem Hunt) He wouldn’t have thrown 50 TDs, but he would have still had an MVP caliber season with the Bills receivers. This last is a contention that will never be verified, because we don't get a do-over. I doubt it; he would still have had to deal with the Bills OL, run game, and coaches. You can disagree, that's fine. Let's bring in some other facts. You're talking about the final game of Mahomes rookie season, after he'd had a chance to sit behind Alex Smith and learn all season long. Mahomes got the backup WR because the Chiefs had already made the playoffs and the game didn't count. He got most of the then-starting OL including the OTs because they didn't want their boy kilt. Here's the box score from the game you mentioned. The passing is all Mahomes - he played 4Q, not 3Q. Let's compare to the final game of Allen's rookie season. Denver was a 5-11 team with a bottom-3rd defense that year. Miami was a 7-9 team with a bottom-3rd defense last year. Now you can hang your hat on an extra 10 passing attempts for an extra 54 yds, 0 TD, and 1 INT being "more than Allen has ever done" if you want to. It would, in fact, be 9 net yards more than Allen passed for in his highest yardage game this season. But one can certainly point out other differences in the offense generated in the game, like TDs and stuff. Certainly with the KC starters the following season, Mahomes was transcendent, but I don't think 50 extra passing yards O TD and a pick is a great argument for how transcendent he'd have been with the Bills 2018 WR. Demarcus Robinson is still playing for the Chiefs and put up 450 yds this year. Albert Wilson put up 391 yds for the Phins last year and 351 this year, which is about 2x Zay Jones. And Demetrius Harris is still in the league, which is more than Fat Kelvin can say. 14 hours ago, Troll Toll said: A few weeks ago I recall getting flamed for saying he’s not an accurate passer. I mean, Man! That skills competition was a joke. The NHL All-Star skills competition is taking place this week in St Louis and at least what they're doing resembles actual hockey skills. The NFL should blush for that stuff, it really should. 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 13 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: Lamar has already produced more in the past two seasons then I thought he could. I was wrong and next year he probably becomes more average but he is a good QB who can hide his deficiency with supreme athleticism. Or, Lamar leveled up his passing game and really improved between last season and this season. He might improve more and eliminate some of his deficiencies. That is what Harbaugh says about him - "he's the kind of a player, whatever you ask him to work on, he'll improve it". Very similar expression of confidence to what we hear about our QB from Beane: "I don't believe there's a hurdle Josh Allen can't get over". I hope that's justified, so I don't know why I'd disbelieve it's possible for Jackson. 34 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: Fun thread to read. I suppose it’s reflexive for some of you to cap on guys like Jackson and Mahomes so you feel better about Allen. Fine by me, everyone has their own coping mechanisms. I truthfully don't understand the Jackson dissing hobby, I truly don't. I loved him in college and would have liked the Bills to want him, but they made it clear (and still make it clear) they want a pocket passer and would not have tailored the offense to him as the Ravens did, so I don't believe he'd have been as successful here. I don't intend to be crapping on Mahomes either, but I do think it's nuts to believe he would look as good if we'd thrown him into the fire his rookie year behind our OL and with our WR. His talent would still be obvious, but it would just be coming towards fruition. 1
eball Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Very similar expression of confidence to what we hear about our QB from Beane: "I don't believe there's a hurdle Josh Allen can't get over". I hope that's justified, so I don't know why I'd disbelieve it's possible for Jackson. I'll give you one reason why -- intelligence. I don't care how great of an athlete Lamar Jackson is, if he doesn't have it upstairs he's always going to be limited. The guy had a terrible Wonderlic and I don't think it's a stretch to say he is a little intellectually challenged. Becoming a better passer is about more than mechanics and practice. Will he ever be able to run a complex offense or read defenses effectively? Hey, I give Harbaugh and Roman credit -- they went all-in and designed an offense to minimize his weaknesses. What happens when Roman moves on? What happens next season when everyone is using the Buffalo/Tennessee blueprint? I'm not "bashing" Lamar, I'm just calling it like I see it. In contrast to Josh Allen, Lamar has been playing quarterback for a long time at a high level. He played in the ACC for a program that was in the running for conference championships. Call me crazy but I don't think he's going to suddenly develop into a productive pocket passer. 1
PromoTheRobot Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, SlimShady'sGhost said: Is 2 points good or bad? asking for a friend I think a JUGS machine set to "random" can score 2 points. So only Pro Bowl QBs were part of this? I'm guessing Josh Allen wasn't. Edited January 25, 2020 by PromoTheRobot
FireChans Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 21 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: People want to be right about him so bad! Most ironic post award? 1 1
dave mcbride Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 20 hours ago, KD in CA said: On both sides of the argument... It’s not an argument, or it least it shouldn’t be one. He has been objectively great since entering the league and had one of the most efficient seasons ever for a qb this year. 1
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 25, 2020 Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, eball said: I'll give you one reason why -- intelligence. I don't care how great of an athlete Lamar Jackson is, if he doesn't have it upstairs he's always going to be limited. The guy had a terrible Wonderlic and I don't think it's a stretch to say he is a little intellectually challenged. Becoming a better passer is about more than mechanics and practice. Will he ever be able to run a complex offense or read defenses effectively? Hey, I give Harbaugh and Roman credit -- they went all-in and designed an offense to minimize his weaknesses. What happens when Roman moves on? What happens next season when everyone is using the Buffalo/Tennessee blueprint? I'm not "bashing" Lamar, I'm just calling it like I see it. In contrast to Josh Allen, Lamar has been playing quarterback for a long time at a high level. He played in the ACC for a program that was in the running for conference championships. Call me crazy but I don't think he's going to suddenly develop into a productive pocket passer. Nailed it. Does Jackson change the plays ever himself at the LOS? I can’t recall seeing it in the 4-5 games I watched of his this year. Wish we had Baltimore fans on here like we have Pats fans. Edited January 25, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975
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