Lamar Jackson scores 2 points in the Precision Passing Pro-Bowl Skills Competition.

[C.Biscuit97]

Well this thread aged well.  I’m shocked he was given the Pro Bowl MVP after his throwing performance in that competition.  It’s almost like it didn’t matter at all. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 hours ago, Rico said:

Great article. I can’t imagine Big Ben ever playing shortstop though.

 

That does totally strain the imagination.

[Billl]

20 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

Why do I have to beat a dead horse constantly?

 

In short, Mahomes and Reid are the perfect marriage, McDermott and Mahomes are not.

 

I don't care how good Mahomes is (I said in 2016 he was going to be a great pro), but if he came to Buffalo when they had NOTHING in 2017 (the entire offensive roster has been gutted since then)......................

 

he would have been up against it with ZERO to work with here. Even though I think he would be great, he can't/couldn't carry a talentless Bills offense by himself.

 

Mahomes got hurt behind a quality KC line............. what would have happened in Buffalo?

Mahomes dislocated his kneecap on a QB sneak.  It was a freak injury that had nothing to do with his line.

[Bangarang]

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Well this thread aged well.  I’m shocked he was given the Pro Bowl MVP after his throwing performance in that competition.  It’s almost like it didn’t matter at all. 

If the skills competition figured him out then it’s only a matter of time before the rest of the league does too and he’ll fade away into mediocrity. Then, Allen can take over as the best QB from that draft class. Because that’s really what this is all about. Bills fans will hype Allen to the moon while simultaneously trashing other young QBs including a Heisman and soon to be league MVP QB.

Edited January 27, 2020 by Bangarang

[nucci]

this is so much more important than what he does during the games

[dave mcbride]

On 1/24/2020 at 7:37 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

Mahomes could have had a MUCH less productive 2018 and STILL looked "all-world"............so don't pat yourself on the back too much for being a voice of reason.

 

It's a league where there is a guy in the NFC throwing at a 74% completion rate over the last 3 years and still Mahomes is in a class by himself in terms of impact on a team and ability to bring a team back from a deficit etc..

 

For all the talk about what Mahomes wouldn't have done here............there is only one QB in the NFL who could have taken that flawed Chiefs team to a Super Bowl.     

@BADOLBILZ - Check this out re the Chiefs and Mahomes. Three teams had him in their sights: KC, NO, and AZ. https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/01/27/super-bowl-liv-49ers-chiefs-kobe-bryant-eli-manning-mmqb

 

Then, it came time to move. Realistically, the Chiefs figured getting in the top five would be just about impossible, so they focused on figuring out who between six and 15 was a threat. Over a couple of months, and with a lot of information gathering, Veach & Co. ascertained that the Saints and Cardinals were Mahomes’s biggest fans. They were picking 11th and 13th, respectively. And after some fits and starts, the Chiefs pulled on another Reid relationship.

Sitting at 10 were the Buffalo Bills and new head coach, Sean McDermott, a lieutenant of Reid’s for a dozen years in Philadelphia. With an established trust in place, and McDermott leading the football operation in Buffalo, the two coaches worked to hammer out a deal.

After that, the Chiefs just needed him to fall to 10, which Mahomes did. And after that, Veach did get some confirmation that his information was good.

“Listen, it’s only what you hear after the fact,” he said. “And I know that Andy and Sean [Payton] have talked, and Sean said, ‘Hey, you’re lucky you guys took him there or I’d have taken him at 11.’

Edited January 27, 2020 by dave mcbride

[BADOLBILZ]

18 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

@BADOLBILZ - Check this out re the Chiefs and Mahomes. Three teams had him in their sights: KC, NO, and AZ. https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/01/27/super-bowl-liv-49ers-chiefs-kobe-bryant-eli-manning-mmqb

 

Then, it came time to move. Realistically, the Chiefs figured getting in the top five would be just about impossible, so they focused on figuring out who between six and 15 was a threat. Over a couple of months, and with a lot of information gathering, Veach & Co. ascertained that the Saints and Cardinals were Mahomes’s biggest fans. They were picking 11th and 13th, respectively. And after some fits and starts, the Chiefs pulled on another Reid relationship.

Sitting at 10 were the Buffalo Bills and new head coach, Sean McDermott, a lieutenant of Reid’s for a dozen years in Philadelphia. With an established trust in place, and McDermott leading the football operation in Buffalo, the two coaches worked to hammer out a deal.

After that, the Chiefs just needed him to fall to 10, which Mahomes did. And after that, Veach did get some confirmation that his information was good.

“Listen, it’s only what you hear after the fact,” he said. “And I know that Andy and Sean [Payton] have talked, and Sean said, ‘Hey, you’re lucky you guys took him there or I’d have taken him at 11.’

 

 

McD got played like a fiddle.

 

First the guy ***** fired him as DC in Philly and then he turns around steals the NFL's most valuable QB from him.

 

With friends like that.......

 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by BADOLBILZ

[dave mcbride]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

McD got played like a fiddle.

 

First the guy ***** fired him as DC in Philly and then he turns around steals the NFL's most valuable QB from him.

 

With friends like that.......

 

 

The first part about the Chiefs' scouting process is interesting too. Also, Breer does a quick e v a l of the Bills' decision-making near the end. He's not damning.

[papazoid]

On 1/24/2020 at 10:30 AM, SlimShady'sGhost said:

Is 2 points good or bad?

 

asking for a friend 

 

 

 

good....if followed by the word "conversion"

[Billl]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

If the skills competition figured him out then it’s only a matter of time before the rest of the league does too and he’ll fade away into mediocrity. Then, Allen can take over as the best QB from that draft class. Because that’s really what this is all about. Bills fans will hype Allen to the moon while simultaneously trashing other young QBs including a Heisman and soon to be league MVP QB.

It’s pretty simple, really.  Your QB will regress with time as teams get more tape on him.  My QB will show logarithmic improvement indefinitely.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The first part about the Chiefs' scouting process is interesting too. Also, Breer does a quick e v a l of the Bills' decision-making near the end. He's not damning.

 

 

Ehh..........that's just math.........Mistortune + Bills = "understandable"

 

It's not a compelling story to bash the afterthought Bills.............nothing to gain except death threats from Bills mafia.

 

Now if Belichick had traded that pick?..........ooooh boy the media would be loving the opportunity to take him down a peg or ten.

 

You gotta' admit though...........there is humor in the fact that McD's mentor has done the two most harmful things to happen to him professionally, though.

[Billsfan1972]

57 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

@BADOLBILZ - Check this out re the Chiefs and Mahomes. Three teams had him in their sights: KC, NO, and AZ. https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/01/27/super-bowl-liv-49ers-chiefs-kobe-bryant-eli-manning-mmqb

 

Then, it came time to move. Realistically, the Chiefs figured getting in the top five would be just about impossible, so they focused on figuring out who between six and 15 was a threat. Over a couple of months, and with a lot of information gathering, Veach & Co. ascertained that the Saints and Cardinals were Mahomes’s biggest fans. They were picking 11th and 13th, respectively. And after some fits and starts, the Chiefs pulled on another Reid relationship.

Sitting at 10 were the Buffalo Bills and new head coach, Sean McDermott, a lieutenant of Reid’s for a dozen years in Philadelphia. With an established trust in place, and McDermott leading the football operation in Buffalo, the two coaches worked to hammer out a deal.

After that, the Chiefs just needed him to fall to 10, which Mahomes did. And after that, Veach did get some confirmation that his information was good.

“Listen, it’s only what you hear after the fact,” he said. “And I know that Andy and Sean [Payton] have talked, and Sean said, ‘Hey, you’re lucky you guys took him there or I’d have taken him at 11.’

McD can't see past his Defense & Offense is an afterthought (necessary evil to give D a breather).  Until proven wrong I will say it over & over.

[BillsfanAZ]

I saw the skills competition and was surprised Jackson couldnt hit anything but the close targets. I knew he wasnt a great passer but figured he would hit some. Even in the probowl game he was off more than he was on. He missed a wide open Landry in the endzone by ten feet. I know they are not trying too hard in the probowl. Even in the regular season he threw up a lot of iffy balls that his receivers and TE's came down with. Probowl Olineman, RB, and TE go a long ways to getting an MVP. 

[Billl]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Ehh..........that's just math.........Mistortune + Bills = "understandable"

 

It's not a compelling story to bash the afterthought Bills.............nothing to gain except death threats from Bills mafia.

 

Now if Belichick had traded that pick?..........ooooh boy the media would be loving the opportunity to take him down a peg or ten.

 

You gotta' admit though...........there is humor in the fact that McD's mentor has done the two most harmful things to happen to him professionally, though.

Reid did him a solid.  If that trade doesn’t go down, McD drafts Lattimore.  It’s a perfectly good pick, and McD still has to listen to the MMQBs complain that Mahomes went one pick later.  Instead, he got an arguably better player at the same position, added a third round pick that year and a first round pick the following year.  The Bills pulled of one of the three best drafts that year.  Possibly the second best depending on how the rest of Watson’s career goes.

[Matt_In_NH]

A couple thoughts.

 

1.  It was just a small sample size so can we really make conclusions, based on previous data it aligns though.

2.  If Lamar Jackson tries to play on a pulled hammy or sprained ankle he will likely not do well.

3.  As inaccurate as he is, he will be MVP.  This demonstrates that the breadth of skills needed to play QB is huge, being good or bad in one area cannot tell you much about how effective a player can be.

[BillsVet]

3 minutes ago, Billl said:

Reid did him a solid.  If that trade doesn’t go down, McD drafts Lattimore.  It’s a perfectly good pick, and McD still has to listen to the MMQBs complain that Mahomes went one pick later.  Instead, he got an arguably better player at the same position, added a third round pick that year and a first round pick the following year.  The Bills pulled of one of the three best drafts that year.  Possibly the second best depending on how the rest of Watson’s career goes.

 

Which planet are you dude? 

 

Many drafts ultimately don't feature 1 franchise QB.  2017 had at least 2 and McD passed on both of them.  Ironic, because he's known as an extremely hard worker, yet in the four months he was on the job leading up to draft day evidently they didn't do enough homework on either.  This, despite having TT on a 1 year deal.

 

At some point, even hardcore Bills fans gotta admit that not taking 1 of those 2 combined with using a starting OT and two 2nd round picks and the pick to move up for their franchise QB wasn't good resource allocation.  All because the HC wimped out when he needed to be bold...and that's something McD is doing far too much in personnel and on game day.

 

McD told the team after the Cleveland game that they needed to play fearless.  Perhaps McD needs to look in the mirror and do the same.

[BADOLBILZ]

15 minutes ago, Billl said:

Reid did him a solid.  If that trade doesn’t go down, McD drafts Lattimore.  It’s a perfectly good pick, and McD still has to listen to the MMQBs complain that Mahomes went one pick later.  Instead, he got an arguably better player at the same position, added a third round pick that year and a first round pick the following year.  The Bills pulled of one of the three best drafts that year.  Possibly the second best depending on how the rest of Watson’s career goes.

 

 

You could argue that he did him a solid firing him in Philly  because he EVENTUALLY.......many years later........got a HC job.

 

The Chiefs were pretty confident they were going to get a stud QB and Reid knew that McD would have egg on his face if that was the case............perhaps the moral of the story is beware of people who have a history of using you for self preservation.

 

It's business........McD was trying to run the draft without the input of the team's GM or scouts...........perhaps he should have trusted his mentors evaluation and picked one of the QB's they were obviously moving up for.

[Bermuda Triangle]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

this is so much more important than what he does during the games

 

And the Pro Bowl is the bestest game of them all!  Looking forward to Andre Roberts making a push next year for WR1.

[BillsfanAZ]

53 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Which planet are you dude? 

 

Many drafts ultimately don't feature 1 franchise QB.  2017 had at least 2 and McD passed on both of them.  Ironic, because he's known as an extremely hard worker, yet in the four months he was on the job leading up to draft day evidently they didn't do enough homework on either.  This, despite having TT on a 1 year deal.

 

At some point, even hardcore Bills fans gotta admit that not taking 1 of those 2 combined with using a starting OT and two 2nd round picks and the pick to move up for their franchise QB wasn't good resource allocation.  All because the HC wimped out when he needed to be bold...and that's something McD is doing far too much in personnel and on game day.

 

McD told the team after the Cleveland game that they needed to play fearless.  Perhaps McD needs to look in the mirror and do the same.

Most people would love to have Mahomes right now. During that draft, how many people were saying how dumb the Bills were for passing on a potential MVP? Most draft gurus were saying the next year was going to be the draft for QB's. So the Bills passed on him and they got Tre White. At some point people need to move on from this. I dont have a problem with what they gave up to get Allen. The Bills made the playoffs at 9-7 and had to work their way up the draft board to get a QB. 

[BillsVet]

37 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

Most people would love to have Mahomes right now. During that draft, how many people were saying how dumb the Bills were for passing on a potential MVP? Most draft gurus were saying the next year was going to be the draft for QB's. So the Bills passed on him and they got Tre White. At some point people need to move on from this. I dont have a problem with what they gave up to get Allen. The Bills made the playoffs at 9-7 and had to work their way up the draft board to get a QB. 

 

I think there's a huge misconception on this board when some fans talk about major personnel misfires.  Professional organizations that make mistakes handle it different than fans who just want to move and can't criticize the team.   

 

The idea is to learn from mistakes.  It's resolving to make sure that it doesn't happen again.  I hope Buffalo doesn't have to draft a QB anytime soon, but it should be abundantly clear that when HC's pass on taking a QB it comes back to haunt them. 

 

McD is a detailed planner, but I would hope by now he recognizes that his planning needs to be flexible.  Heck, we talked in the Army about how the operation order went out the window when the first bullets started flying.  I see a guy who sticks to his plan come hell or high water and will not adapt.  That showed on draft night 2017.   

 

I remember McD talking about winning both now (2017) and later.  Well, winning in 2017 was nice, but how much did that affect their ability to win later.  Sure, drafting a Mahomes or Watson may not have provided the impact that taking a good CB did for the 2017 season.  But there isn't one intelligent football fan out there who would take Tre, a late 1st, and a 3rd over a franchise QB.  Any Bills fan who says they would are lying or can't separate their fan-hood from reality.  

Edited January 27, 2020 by BillsVet