The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

29 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

You didn’t answer my question from earlier today...

And in relation to the post you made which I’m quoting here, I’d like to let you know that hydroxychloroquine is used worldwide for a few purposes, and has been used for a long time.  Seems like you’re treating it as though it is a new drug. If doctors don’t know how to properly prescribe it and which patients are able to receive it without complication, then who’s to blame? Whether is is effective at treating Covid-19 is up in the air, but worrying about side effects should be a small, low hurdle.

 

 

 

 

 

...you're astute to know the answer......hydroxychloroquine was first approved for use in 1955 for malaria......and it came back on the scene coupled with zithromax as a potential Covid-19 treatment.....remember any prohibitive headlines from 1955 until now?....hmmm... no way it could be a TDS protest....hell if he advocated effin' Tylenol, imagine the MSM being all over that despite us having to virtually overdose daily to deal with them?......

Edited May 7, 2020 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[LB3]

4 hours ago, Margarita said:

I can see if you read it and disagree that's one thing but to say no to reading an ex military general couldn't possibly have anything worthwhile to say , why? Because he identifies as a democrat? 

 

to me that is extremely whats the word "snowflake" SMH Im surprised frankly. What was written seems pretty common sensical to me

 

3 hours ago, Margarita said:

 I think your uber Trump Bias is showing here and if it were anyone but DT being criticized I bet you'd see things differently and it would make a lot more sense. If a different author had penned it would that have made a difference? Maybe just maybe the "same old criticisms  hold water and your fandom of DT don't allow you to see it? Maybe?

Hmm. Maybe the strong ones I made on Tuesday are what make you seem so weak. ??‍♂️

[muppy]

42 minutes ago, LB3 said:

 

Hmm. Maybe the strong ones I made on Tuesday are what make you seem so weak. ??‍♂️

Make me seem so weak? Resorting to a personal attack when you don’t agree something they write makes you seem immature. I have no idea what you said on Tuesday delusions of grandeur much? SMH 

[muppy]

2 hours ago, snafu said:

 

We have seen Trump’s style on display for 3.5 years now.

We have all been able to cringe when the time is right.  And we have all seen that his words and message delivery and style don’t always match up with the actions of his administration.  If you think Trump makes uninformed decisions then I’d have to disagree with you. Maybe that’s another major failure of Trump’s leadership style that Clark left out: the impression that Trump is acting solely based on his own thoughts without input from anyone else. That’s just untrue, but people believe it all the time. 

Thank you for a civil reasonable reply without any personal innuendo back towards my person  I appreciate your candor and insight

[LB3]

8 minutes ago, Margarita said:

Make me seem so weak? Resorting to a personal attack when you don’t agree something they write makes you seem immature. I have no idea what you said on Tuesday delusions of grandeur much? SMH 

[Kemp]

1 hour ago, snafu said:

 

You didn’t answer my question from earlier today...

And in relation to the post you made which I’m quoting here, I’d like to let you know that hydroxychloroquine is used worldwide for a few purposes, and has been used for a long time.  Seems like you’re treating it as though it is a new drug. If doctors don’t know how to properly prescribe it and which patients are able to receive it without complication, then who’s to blame? Whether is is effective at treating Covid-19 is up in the air, but worrying about side effects should be a small, low hurdle.

 

 

 

Lots of drugs are good for some things. That has nothing to with how drugs affect other things. This particular drug is good for malaria. What does that have to do with Covid?

 

In the only verifiable study when it was used against Covid, MORE people died than with other treatments.

 

Aside from Trump and Fox bringing it up, why is it even being talked about?

 

I think he either has a profit motive or he heard something and now wants it to work so he can be revered.

 

Which question didn't I answer?

[muppy]

13 minutes ago, LB3 said:

Yep. Do I want to know the joke? Nope ✌️Out

[shoshin]

2 hours ago, Foxx said:

of course a 'vir 'looks' 'promising'.

 

one might wonder why that is.

for one, there is a significant price difference (hence profit motives to go around for a great many (HCQ, not so much))...

 

Having patients lie on their sides and stomachs also seems to have a great effect--it's one of the big things we learned for positive outcomes and I don't think anyone gets a royalty for figuring that out. 

 

There are some experiments using old TB and Polio drugs that look promising. All of those like chloroquine are off patent. If they show promise, I'm sure they will be used. 

[snafu]

58 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

Lots of drugs are good for some things. That has nothing to with how drugs affect other things. This particular drug is good for malaria. What does that have to do with Covid?

 

In the only verifiable study when it was used against Covid, MORE people died than with other treatments.

 

Aside from Trump and Fox bringing it up, why is it even being talked about?

 

I think he either has a profit motive or he heard something and now wants it to work so he can be revered.

 

You’re talking about hydroxychloroquine too.

The first time I heard about it was from a report out of France. That was before Trump ever mentioned it.  Boston hospitals were widely using it, and I think Arizona, too.  India wouldn’t initially sell it to the US because they wanted as much as they could get for their Covid treatments. Are all these docrors, hospitals, countries also similarly motivated?

 

 

58 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

Which question didn't I answer?

 

8 hours ago, snafu said:

 

“Should have been quarantined” in what manner?

Where and how?

 

 

These questions ^^^^^^.

[SectionC3]

Another study, another indication that the miracle cure trump promotes is just another example of his fake news: 

 

https://apnews.com/23f7a2d9645602bee1c3dc7c0c952191

[Magox]

20 hours ago, Magox said:

 

—————

If we had been starting off with a much lower baseline to work off, like near 0 then maybe we could employ this strategy as an effective tool to mitigate it.  But we aren't, and most likely by the end of summer, we will still have more than quite a few infections. 

 

—————-

If you look at my quote I made the case that contact tracing could work if you are working off of a low baseline,  we definitely would not be.  We have about 25k confirmed cases a day, which means we realistically have anywhere from 150k to as high as 400k actual new cases daily due to the asymptomatic cases.   That’s each and every day just piling on top of one another.   So when I said the toothpaste is out the tube, it means it’s too late for that.  There is no way you can contact trace something that is outside the realm of control.

 

I was just watching Tucker Carlson’s show and he had Doctor Atlas who is former chief of neuroradiology of Stanford Medical center and he made this exact same point that I made last night.  That we are way beyond the point to be able to contact trace to crush the curve.   That only on a targeted basis.   I wish I could get the clip of him saying that but I did google him up and he did write an OP ed 5 days ago where he made mention of it.

 

 

 

——————Widespread testing is not a predicate for reopening as above. And contact tracing is not valuable after a disease is already widespread, even though it would be an important part of the overall preparation for potential future outbreaks.—————-
 

 

[ALF]

Nurses head to the White House to protest lack of protective equipment

 

Nurses rallied in front of the White House on Thursday morning to protest the lack of personal protective equipment available to them in the battle against the novel coronavirus.

 

The demonstrators gathered in Lafayette Square in front of the White House and placed 88 pairs of empty shoes on the ground. Those shoes represented the life of each nurse they say has been lost due inadequate personal protective equipment while fighting the coronavirus.

The demonstrators then read the names of the 88 fallen nurses.

 

"You talk about how essential, how needed, how grateful you are, and yet you throw us to the wolves. You throw us out onto a battlefield without armor and the more we complain we don't see anything being done," said Jean Ross, president of National Nurses United, in an interview with CNN.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/07/politics/nurses-white-house-protest/index.html
 

[shoshin]

12 hours ago, snafu said:

 

You’re talking about hydroxychloroquine too.

The first time I heard about it was from a report out of France. That was before Trump ever mentioned it.  Boston hospitals were widely using it, and I think Arizona, too.  India wouldn’t initially sell it to the US because they wanted as much as they could get for their Covid treatments. Are all these docrors, hospitals, countries also similarly motivated?

 

 

They were hopeful because it’s a broad spectrum antiviral with minimal side effects. But much like chloroquine worked well in the lab and anecdotally vs Ebola and HIV, the hype here appears to fizzle under testing. 
 

It would be amazing if a drug as known as chloroquine worked but it’s like the NYC hospital Pepcid tests, doesn’t seem like that’s happening. 

 

12 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

Another study, another indication that the miracle cure trump promotes is just another example of his fake news: 

 

https://apnews.com/23f7a2d9645602bee1c3dc7c0c952191

Not double blind and some flaws there with only testing it in more advanced patients  but it’s not anecdotal either. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by shoshin

[shoshin]

18 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

I was just watching Tucker Carlson’s show and he had Doctor Atlas who is former chief of neuroradiology of Stanford Medical center and he made this exact same point that I made last night.  That we are way beyond the point to be able to contact trace to crush the curve.   That only on a targeted basis.   I wish I could get the clip of him saying that but I did google him up and he did write an OP ed 5 days ago where he made mention of it.

 

 

 

——————Widespread testing is not a predicate for reopening as above. And contact tracing is not valuable after a disease is already widespread, even though it would be an important part of the overall preparation for potential future outbreaks.—————-
 

 

There won’t be any crushing a curve. Cases and deaths will rise with more people mingling. There can’t be another result of reopening at this point. 
 

Tracking is critical to letting people know they’ve been exposed and need to isolate until tested. That’s true even now. 
 

Ideally it’s used to stamp out outbreaks but we have given up on keeping the majority of people safe from this. The new unstated (for obvious reasons) goal is to hope for a few hundred thousand deaths to achieve herd immunity by summer 2021. 

[Kemp]

1 hour ago, snafu said:

 

You’re talking about hydroxychloroquine too.

The first time I heard about it was from a report out of France. That was before Trump ever mentioned it.  Boston hospitals were widely using it, and I think Arizona, too.  India wouldn’t initially sell it to the US because they wanted as much as they could get for their Covid treatments. Are all these docrors, hospitals, countries also similarly motivated?

 

 

 

 

These questions ^^^^^^.

 

I'm pretty sure I answered that, but I will do it again. Trump talked of testing and quarantining people coming from Europe, which never happened. 

 

As to the specifics of the quarantine, I assumed that he had  a detailed plan and that the plan would be followed. It's not my job to figure out the logistics. 

 

The problem, as usual, is that Trump said something without thinking it through and most certainly never had a detailed plan. He just likes the sound of his own voice.. That's why it never happened and why the virus came pouring into America from Europe. 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

nevermind

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[snafu]

2 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

I'm pretty sure I answered that, but I will do it again. Trump talked of testing and quarantining people coming from Europe, which never happened. 

 

As to the specifics of the quarantine, I assumed that he had  a detailed plan and that the plan would be followed. It's not my job to figure out the logistics. 

 

The problem, as usual, is that Trump said something without thinking it through and most certainly never had a detailed plan. He just likes the sound of his own voice.. That's why it never happened and why the virus came pouring into America from Europe. 

 

I know five people who were in Europe at the time Trump made his announcement regarding The travel ban. The plan was to have people self-quarantine for 14 days. Everyone who came in. I don’t recall anyone ever objecting to this plan to test and quarantine. They went through homeland security screening before customs on Sunday March 15th. This was at JFK airport. 

 

Why test anything if people went straight to self-quarantine for 14 days?  What would have been the purpose of that. The test given to asymptomatic people was, at that time, to measure their temperatures. People with obvious symptoms were swabbed. But even if it was a swab test for everyone, everyone who came in was supposed to self-quarantine.  The plan also was to have someone from the government call to check up on people to ensure compliance.  I’m not aware whether that actually took place.  Nobody followed up on anyone of the five I know. 

 

If you’re saying that there was a plan to force people to quarantine anywhere other than their home, I’ve never heard that. If that was the plan, I’m pretty sure a LOT of people would have been talking about it. In any event, you complain about a plan that you don’t provide details about.  What, exactly is your complaint? You’re just complaining for the sake of it?

 

 

[Kemp]

25 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

I know five people who were in Europe at the time Trump made his announcement regarding The travel ban. The plan was to have people self-quarantine for 14 days. Everyone who came in. I don’t recall anyone ever objecting to this plan to test and quarantine. They went through homeland security screening before customs on Sunday March 15th. This was at JFK airport. 

 

Why test anything if people went straight to self-quarantine for 14 days?  What would have been the purpose of that. The test given to asymptomatic people was, at that time, to measure their temperatures. People with obvious symptoms were swabbed. But even if it was a swab test for everyone, everyone who came in was supposed to self-quarantine.  The plan also was to have someone from the government call to check up on people to ensure compliance.  I’m not aware whether that actually took place.  Nobody followed up on anyone of the five I know. 

 

If you’re saying that there was a plan to force people to quarantine anywhere other than their home, I’ve never heard that. If that was the plan, I’m pretty sure a LOT of people would have been talking about it. In any event, you complain about a plan that you don’t provide details about.  What, exactly is your complaint? You’re just complaining for the sake of it?

 

 

 

Surely you must understand that lots of people in that situation didn't self-quarantine. The government telling people to do anything will always be disregarded by a certain percentage..

 

Even though people in NYC have been told to always wear a mask in public and to social distance, I would estimate that somewhere between 30-50% of the people I see now are not following these rules, anymore. Early on, compliance was near perfect.

 

You also see it with all of the people across the country protesting the shutdown. They are overwhelmingly rejecting masks and especially social distancing.

 

NYC has still managed to flatten the curve and it is bending downwards. This will change as the city opens up and people grow impatient.

 

The rest of America, where compliance is even worse, are showing a rise in cases of coronavirus.

 

With those states opening up while the numbers are growing, it is likely that they will not fare well. This might not be the case, but that's the way I would bet.

 

 

[snafu]

2 hours ago, snafu said:

 

Quote

 

Which question didn't I answer?

 

11 hours ago, snafu said:

 

“Should have been quarantined” in what manner?

Where and how?

 

 

@Kemp you still didn’t answer.

Your answer, so far, was:

(a) Trump mentioned a plan (no details given)

(b) (after hearing details) people weren’t going to follow his plan

 

My question, if as you say people aren’t going to self-quarantine, still stands.  It is the same question I asked when you first brought this up much earlier today:  What quarantine plan should have existed?

 

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, Magox said:

And contact tracing is not valuable after a disease is already widespread, even though it would be an important part of the overall preparation for potential future outbreaks.

You're probably right but just seeing Apple and Google work together on developing a contact tracing app is a miracle in itself.  It's like watching Apollo and Rocky working together to beat Mr. T.