The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[GG]

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

 

Trump ordered everyone tested and the positive quarantined and they didn't comply is your assertion.

If we assume this is accurate, which I don't, it would have been reported to him. This was certainly important enough to have been monitored. If not, he screwed up that way.

Not one person has been disciplined as a result that I am aware of. Does that make any sense?

If you're in charge of something and your orders aren't followed, is it not incumbent upon you to take action?  

 

If you're going to take the position that he is unaware of this, this would make him a total buffoon. Thousands of Americans are dead as a direct result. 

And yes, the fault lies squarely on those in charge. That would be Trump, where the buck never stops. Everything negative is always someone else's fault.. 

 

So you give a pass to one side for working off the same set of limited information between January and March, only because Cuomo sounds more competent when he speaks and doesn't have a life long history of extra-exuberant hyperbole?

 

It's plainly obvious that few people in the US took the virus as seriously  as they should have until early March.   Yet only Trump is taken to task for his January & February comments, even though his authority didn't extend to the direct oversight of the areas that turned into the hot zones.

 

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

You are right about social distancing  not being put into place soon enough, but this would also mean that it should be mandatory now everywhere in America. Trump supporters are flouting this now throughout the country, with Trump cheering them on, and this after we have learned it works.

 

Once again, you cannot compare the situation in early March to mid-May.  There's much more available information now, there's more equipment that's available now, and most importantly, there are a lot more people who are immune now.

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

When people get sick they should give hydroxychloroquine and zinc early  (not later)before covid19 makes other inside of you. So doesn't attack any other part of the body. Beat it early is the best thing to do. Would prevent lots of deaths as well as slowing down infection rate.

[shoshin]

1 hour ago, Magox said:

 

 

Truth be told, I don't hold this criticism against them too much.  Yes, De Blasio, their health department commissioner and Cuomo all downplayed it similar to Trump.   

 

And if we are going to be honest, then you can see that many politicians from the left and right, including the media, even including Fauci.  The footage and proof is there.

 

 

As a voter, I will hold politicians for the state of things in November. Meaning I will look at:

 

(1) If it looks like we shut down and we should not have 

(2) If it looks like we came out of this too soon and we are paying a lives/economic price that made that decision look bad (especially if we are back in shutdown mode or appear headed there) 

 

If hospital systems are busy but doing OK, the economy is recovering well from where we are now, and signs are pointed up, that will reflect well on the decision-makers. 

 

I don't think any politician had an easy job here but I will definitely hold them accountable for the judgments they made on this after we see where we are in November, especially related to the shutdown and the reopening. 

[GG]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

As a voter, I will hold politicians for the state of things in November. Meaning I will look at:

 

(1) If it looks like we shut down and we should not have 

(2) If it looks like we came out of this too soon and we are paying a lives/economic price that made that decision look bad (especially if we are back in shutdown mode or appear headed there) 

 

If hospital systems are busy but doing OK, the economy is recovering well from where we are now, and signs are pointed up, that will reflect well on the decision-makers. 

 

I don't think any politician had an easy job here but I will definitely hold them accountable for the judgments they made on this after we see where we are in November, especially related to the shutdown and the reopening. 

 

You're missing # 3, which is Did we shut down at the right time and opened up at the right time.

[snafu]

33 minutes ago, Magox said:

I acknowledge that shutting down the MTA may not have been practical, but they could have done things to limit crowding, or changing the hours of operation or the amount of trips.  Something could have been done.  The sanitizing that they have in place is something they just instituted.

 

I’ve heard, actually, that the MTA reduced the train schedule, meaning that more people would have had to crowd into the trains. I’m not 100% certain if that’s true. I will try to find something to back it up.

 

As it is now, thousands of homeless people have moved below ground and are making the system even more difficult to use. The police are busy enforcing distancing regs and aren’t able to cope with subway patrolling. 

 

https://thechiefleader.com/news/news_of_the_week/mta-covid-19-death-toll-mounts-as-even-reduced-service-suffers/article_662dd09a-75e5-11ea-a79a-9fc674726750.html

There’s an article regarding the unintended consequence (overcrowding) of reducing subway service in response to reduced demand.

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by snafu

[Magox]

3 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

As a voter, I will hold politicians for the state of things in November. Meaning I will look at:

 

(1) If it looks like we shut down and we should not have 

(2) If it looks like we came out of this too soon and we are paying a lives/economic price that made that decision look bad (especially if we are back in shutdown mode or appear headed there) 

 

If hospital systems are busy but doing OK, the economy is recovering well from where we are now, and signs are pointed up, that will reflect well on the decision-makers. 

 

I don't think any politician had an easy job here but I will definitely hold them accountable for the judgments they made on this after we see where we are in November, especially related to the shutdown and the reopening. 

 

I largely will view it that way as well with the added point that GG said.

Just now, snafu said:

 

I’ve heard, actually, that the MTA reduced the train schedule, meaning that more people would have had to crowd into the trains. I’m not 100% certain if that’s true. I will try to find something to back it up.

 

As it is now, thousands of homeless people have moved below ground and are making the system even more difficult to use. The police are busy enforcing distancing regs and aren’t able to cope with subway patrolling. 

 

 

 

That certainly would be a measure.

[shoshin]

 

8 minutes ago, GG said:

 

You're missing # 3, which is Did we shut down at the right time and opened up at the right time.

 

The shutting down timing I don't question. It could have been done earlier to great advantage but no one with a voice was calling for it so I don't blame us for missing the boat on that. 

 

Reopening at the right time is something I am watching with great interest as a voter. And I can only judge that by the consequences of those actions. I think NYS has the hardest job to reopen and following the CDC guidelines is the smart way to go. Some counties will feel cheated, people will B word, no one will be happy no matter what Cuomo does, but I can only judge the macro measures: (1) condition of healthcare, (2) deaths, (3) economy. 

[plenzmd1]

10 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

I’ve heard, actually, that the MTA reduced the train schedule, meaning that more people would have had to crowd into the trains. I’m not 100% certain if that’s true. I will try to find something to back it up.

 

As it is now, thousands of homeless people have moved below ground and are making the system even more difficult to use. The police are busy enforcing distancing regs and aren’t able to cope with subway patrolling. 

 

https://thechiefleader.com/news/news_of_the_week/mta-covid-19-death-toll-mounts-as-even-reduced-service-suffers/article_662dd09a-75e5-11ea-a79a-9fc674726750.html

There’s an article regarding the unintended consequence (overcrowding) of reducing subway service in response to reduced demand.

 

 

14 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

As a voter, I will hold politicians for the state of things in November. Meaning I will look at:

 

(1) If it looks like we shut down and we should not have 

(2) If it looks like we came out of this too soon and we are paying a lives/economic price that made that decision look bad (especially if we are back in shutdown mode or appear headed there) 

 

If hospital systems are busy but doing OK, the economy is recovering well from where we are now, and signs are pointed up, that will reflect well on the decision-makers. 

 

I don't think any politician had an easy job here but I will definitely hold them accountable for the judgments they made on this after we see where we are in November, especially related to the shutdown and the reopening. 

1)I will look at it as did they do what I think was the right decision, at that time, with the available data. In other words, i think the decision to shut down was correct. Problem is there is no way to prove that.

2) I want to come out of it now with the data we have today. That may prove to be the wrong decision. I will not hold that against a politician if that proves to be wrong..they trusted the data. Thats what I want, not someone who is making politically motivated decsions. And yes, i still believe in unicorns!

11 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

I’ve heard, actually, that the MTA reduced the train schedule, meaning that more people would have had to crowd into the trains. I’m not 100% certain if that’s true. I will try to find something to back it up.

 

As it is now, thousands of homeless people have moved below ground and are making the system even more difficult to use. The police are busy enforcing distancing regs and aren’t able to cope with subway patrolling. 

 

https://thechiefleader.com/news/news_of_the_week/mta-covid-19-death-toll-mounts-as-even-reduced-service-suffers/article_662dd09a-75e5-11ea-a79a-9fc674726750.html

There’s an article regarding the unintended consequence (overcrowding) of reducing subway service in response to reduced demand.

 

Saw a pictute end of March, either the 4 or 5 train, rush hour...as bad or worse crowding htan any other rush hour due to reduced schedule

6 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

 

Some counties will feel cheated, people will B word,

why cant they open bu county?

[GG]

7 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

 

The shutting down timing I don't question. It could have been done earlier to great advantage but no one with a voice was calling for it so I don't blame us for missing the boat on that. 

 

Reopening at the right time is something I am watching with great interest as a voter. And I can only judge that by the consequences of those actions. I think NYS has the hardest job to reopen and following the CDC guidelines is the smart way to go. Some counties will feel cheated, people will B word, no one will be happy no matter what Cuomo does, but I can only judge the macro measures: (1) condition of healthcare, (2) deaths, (3) economy. 

 

That's why an option #3 should exist if the people calling the shots are willing to accept a reasonable risk to begin a return to normalcy.

[Kemp]

26 minutes ago, GG said:

 

So you give a pass to one side for working off the same set of limited information between January and March, only because Cuomo sounds more competent when he speaks and doesn't have a life long history of extra-exuberant hyperbole?

 

It's plainly obvious that few people in the US took the virus as seriously  as they should have until early March.   Yet only Trump is taken to task for his January & February comments, even though his authority didn't extend to the direct oversight of the areas that turned into the hot zones.

 

 

Once again, you cannot compare the situation in early March to mid-May.  There's much more available information now, there's more equipment that's available now, and most importantly, there are a lot more people who are immune now.

 
Yeah, I think the guy in charge is responsible for taking the reins for the single biggest event since WWII.

[Nanker]

21 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

That Wilson was one strange dude! I like battling, fair and accurate. 

Wilson was an unabashed racist who refused to integrate the US Army and to let African Americans to attend Princeton University. 

[Gary M]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/shocking-two-thirds-patients-recently-hospitalized-ny-had-been-staying-n1201421

 

What?

[shoshin]

4 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That's why an option #3 should exist if the people calling the shots are willing to accept a reasonable risk to begin a return to normalcy.

 

I accept that more people will die as we reopen, the healthcare system will sag, and I accept that the economy in November will not have 3.5% unemployment of pre-Covid. 

 

But if we reopen now and are heading towards another shutdown in October, I will judge the people who pushed to reopen what turns out to be too soon harshly. The current reopening plans in many states don't impress me: GA, IL, PA come to mind. And I am watching Trump do very little to push the governors, which I will hold him accountable for if October is another shutdown month.  

[Dante]

On 5/6/2020 at 10:47 AM, Motorin' said:

 

You don't believe 70,000 Americans have died from coronavirus over the last 6-8 weeks? 

They may or may not have had the virus. Who knows? Most certainly didn't die because of it.  So no, I don't believe they died because of it. 

[shoshin]

Just now, Gary M said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/shocking-two-thirds-patients-recently-hospitalized-ny-had-been-staying-n1201421

 

What?

 

Covered yesterday here too. Who knows. No one is getting this sitting in a bubble. Those people weren't taking mass transit but they may have had other community spread or had angels of death visitors.

[GG]

6 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 
Yeah, I think the guy in charge is responsible for taking the reins for the single biggest event since WWII.

 

Presidents are in charge of the military during a war.  Governors are in primary charge of what happens in their states.

[Deranged Rhino]

9 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Presidents are in charge of the military during a war.  Governors are in primary charge of what happens in their states.

 

Federalism is a difficult concept for many a NPC. 

[muppy]

this seemed to be the best thread to post this in.  I saw this letter written by Wesley K. Clark, a retired Army general and NATO's former supreme allied commander in Europe, was a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2004 and is a CNN military analyst. The views expressed in this commentary are his own. I happen to think it makes a ton of sense. Not that DT would listen or take heed to it but IMO he should. Its called President Trump,  Here's how to take control of this crisis.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/07/opinions/crisis-leadership-advice-for-president-trump-wesley-clark/index.html

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, Margarita said:

this seemed to be the best thread to post this in.  I saw this letter written by Wesley K. Clark, a retired Army general and NATO's former supreme allied commander in Europe, was a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2004 and is a CNN military analyst. The views expressed in this commentary are his own. I happen to think it makes a ton of sense. Not that DT would listen or take heed to it but IMO he should. Its called President Trump,  Here's how to take control of this crisis.  https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/07/opinions/crisis-leadership-advice-for-president-trump-wesley-clark/index.html

 

Anything coming from Clark is best left unheeded. 

(imo)

[muppy]

3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Anything coming from Clark is best left unheeded. 

(imo)

did you even read it?  I thought you of all people would be willing to consider alternative views. To discount it without even bothering to read it contradicts you being open minded don't you think?

my parents would call that "throwing out the baby with the bath water"  thats pretty discouraging/disappointing